NC State Ranked #17 In Blue Ribbon Pre-Season Poll

07-08 Basketball General NCS Basketball79

GREENSBORO, N.C. – North Carolina heads up a list of four ACC teams ranked in the Blue Ribbon College Basketball Yearbook Preseason Top 25 rankings. In addition to the top-ranked Tar Heels, Duke is ranked 14th, NC State 17th and Clemson 21st.

I know. I know. I am just as perplexed as you after Lee Fowler and the folks at NC State stoked their professional reputations to the ‘FACT’ that it takes at least six years for a coach to build a potential NCAA Tournament team. Didn’t you feel like a Holocaust denier if you didn’t drink the kool-aid? If you are in a basketball mood, then you can click here and scroll through recent pre-season entries discussing the upcoming season.

About StateFans

'StateFansNation' is the shared profile used by any/all of the dozen or so authors that contribute to the blog. You may not always agree with us, but you will have little doubt about where we stand on most issues. Please follow us on Twitter and FaceBook

07-08 Basketball General NCS Basketball

79 Responses to NC State Ranked #17 In Blue Ribbon Pre-Season Poll

  1. choppack1 09/19/2007 at 9:42 PM #

    redfred – Les Robinson turned NC State into a joke. He actually recruited OK, but he couldn’t count, couldn’t prep a team for a game, and couldn’t coach them well during it. (He’s definitely been a hot coaching commodity since leaving State, huh?)

    Look – I’ve seen a lot of State teams in football and basketball in Raleigh, but nothing was the joke that Les Robinson regularly produced during his tenure at our alma mater.

    When I think of Les, I think of Jason Sasser. I’ll think of a guy whose team played the worst D I’ve ever seen in my life. Sendek took a team that had an NBA FIRST ROUND DRAFT pick, hadn’t had a winning season in 5 years and won more ACC tournament games IN HIS FIRST YEAR than Les managed to win in 5 years. Even in the dreadful play-in game, Les was 1 and 3. 1 and 3 in a match up of awful vs. awful. (Actually, his first year was eerily similar to Coach Lowe’s.)

    Sendek did some good things. He didn’t adjust well to the “in-game” situations, but his teams usually were prepared. Lowe didn’t inherit much more than Sendek, but he didn’t inherity a team that was known in the conference as a joke. Those kids on his team had never known a season where they didn’t go to the NCAAs. Not one kid on the team Sendek inherited had ever gone to the NCAAs.

    Simply put, Les destroyed our program and turned us into a joke. Imagine UMd keeping Bob Wade 6 years. Imagine UNC-Ch keeping Coach Doh! 6 years. I’d throw in UVa and FSU – but they haven’t had a coach that bad.

    Why Les gets points for some for doing what any man w/ morals and ethichs, but no coaching ability could do – I’ll never understand.

    I also remember the apology letter Sendek sent to us before year 6. It’s been my opinion that Herb was told he was doing fine by Fowler – and it was Fowler and a few out of control fans that turned it into an us vs. them scene (we basically saw the same thing w/Amato.)

    Herb will have my respect for bringing us back to the dance – and making us a regular member of it. The progress wasn’t fast enough and ultimately, he wasn’t the right man for the job, but under him no one really looked forward to playing us – w/ the possible exception of Roy Williams and Coach K.

    I think we’ve got a great fit and fantastic game coach in Sidney. The only thing I worry about is what I call the GaTech effect. GaTech routinely signs great players the last couple of years, but they don’t stay long enough to be any more than a bubble team.

    But regardless, Coach Lowe has done a fantastic job plugging the many holes Sendek left him.

  2. vtpackfan 09/19/2007 at 10:13 PM #

    Besides JJ Hickson, who has Lowe and his staff recruited that you will see jump staight to the pro’s? Nobody. Smith, Thomas, Javy, Williams, Johnson, Degand and May’s will all stay until either their eligibilty runs out, transfer or otherwise.

    Your whole line about getting a team prepared is partially true. He got them to prepare well for their studies and he did an excellent job preparing “team” defense. His team’s were a joke offesively if Hodge didn’t take over or heaves from the outside didn’t land on target.

    It’s obvious that he paid no attention to offense when an assistant to Pitino. If you played good help defense you played alot, regardless if you could rebound or create plays (hello Gavin Grant, nice to meet you, now sit down on the bench as I draw this trapezoid diagram of the off ball man helping on the weak side after strong side helper gets beat).

    Get real guys. Coachs that are really good at only one side of the ball (offense or defense) can sneek into at large bid’s. It’s no great deed what Sendek did upon this program.

  3. choppack1 09/19/2007 at 10:45 PM #

    vtpackfan – Personally, I think that it took him – and an a very key assitant – an awakening of what type of player he wanted here. We never got over the hump and after 10 years, he needed to leave.

    I won’t say what he did here was great – but he did get us back to the tournament.

    I think we have a better fit now. As far as the players Sid is bringing, I’m thinking more long term – looking at the guys he has coming into the fold a couple of years from now. I’m looking forward to seeing what he can do w/ his guys.

  4. PackMan97 09/19/2007 at 11:16 PM #

    redferd, I don’t have any ill will toward Robinson. I agree with you. He was asked to be the coach in an era when our Chancellor (Montheith) and AD (if you think Fowler is bad, say hello to Turner) made winning a secondary goal. As for being connected to our former glory. I enrolled in State in ’92 and I can tell you that basketball was DEAD. No one cared. If we got 8-9k in Reynolds for an ACC game it was a large crowd. You could expect 5-6k for the scrub teams.

    Anyone who says that NC State still had a basketball pulse when Sendek arrived here is blowing smoke. He came my last year at State and I can’t tell you how exciting it was to care about basketball. To actually have a chance to go to the NIT and having a winning season!

    Those that were fans before pre-scandal I think suffer from repressed memories of the Les era. Those that became fans during the Sendek era can not possibly realize how bad it got under Monteith and Turner, for they are were the real blame lays. Even on it’s worst day, the Sendek era was 10x better than the crap we had to endure in the mid ’90s!

    And you can take that to the bank!

    Again, this is not saying Sendek was great…but if you realize where we were at the end of the ’96 season when Sendek arrived you’ll realize just how far Sendek took us in terms of regional and national respectability. He never got us to the promised land, but he got us out of the horror of the mid ’90s.

  5. redfred2 09/19/2007 at 11:36 PM #

    chop, I didn’t, and am not, implying that Les was a good coach. Hell, after I got over being mad as hell about the ballgames he coached, I used to make it fun of the team back then also. It was either laugh, or go postal. What I am saying is that Sendek took a program with a great history, disregarded that history and tried to create something totally different from scratch. When all he had to do was learn about where was, reach back, immulate and embrace what already was. But, as we all know, he didn’t, couldn’t, didn’t know how, or either just plain refused because he THOUGHT he knew better than anyone else how to win in the ACC and what NC State needed.

    Fact of the matter is, he did not. That reality will show itself on the basketball court in this upcoming season.

  6. redfred2 09/19/2007 at 11:57 PM #

    PackMan,

    There is no doubt we stunk under Les, and you’re right that along with his coaching abilities the powers that be were what prolonged that dismal time for us all. But still, and though it may have seemed like an eternity, in the total scope of Wolfpack BB history, Les Robinson’s shackled tenure was short lived. And, it definitely didn’t damage the program enough so as to have the next guy come in and totally disregard the past, the players who once played AND WON the ulitimate in Wolfpack red, and also the older fans who had seen and knew what power that that basketball program held, and still holds.

    Yes, Sendek was better than Les Robinson and the terrible administration who prolonged their own agony, no doubt. So is that really something to write home about?

  7. redfred2 09/20/2007 at 12:14 AM #

    In case anyone is new here and isn’t already aware, this topic holds a special place in my heart.

  8. gumbydammit 09/20/2007 at 2:35 AM #

    when did it become acceptable to start using our former coach’s name in posts again? He will forever remain HWSNBN in my book…

  9. PackMan97 09/20/2007 at 8:35 AM #

    “And, it definitely didn’t damage the program enough so as to have the next guy come in and totally disregard the past,”

    The damage was already done BEFORE Les got here in case you forget the scandals at the end of the Jimmy V era. Conspiracy theories and Golenbach’s lies aside, the damage was real and it was national.

    I always thought Herb made an effort to get in touch with our past. Lest you forget Heritage games in Reynolds, “honoring” jersey’s of former players in the rafters, etc. Perhaps it’s not as much as you want or done in the way you want, but he certainly didn’t “ignore” our history.

  10. nycfan 09/20/2007 at 11:05 AM #

    I think that there is absolutely no question that Sendek inherited a PROGRAM in worse shape than did Sid. You can argue about the roster in retrospect, I guess, but going into his first season, Sendek had a highly recruited flop in Benjamin (don’t get me wrong, a great kid, but one who was thrust into the role of savior of a program that was beyond his or any player’s ability to save at the time). CC Harrison didn’t even average 10 PPG in the prior year. There were about zero expectations for Strong, Buffum, Hyatt, Pinkins and Gainey. Lowe inherited a far more stable PROGRAM and a roster with less depth but I would argue more talent.

    The similarities in the results of Sendek’s and Lowe’s first seasons at NCSU is really spooky, though.

    All that said, who really cares now? I thought State should have canned Sendek after the disaster in 2001; he had an obvious ceiling on where he could take State, but at least he got you consistently to the top of his ceiling before leaving. Here we are. Things are looking way up.

    I think State should be a solid top 25 team by the middle of the season and I am struggling to decide whether to pick State or Dook to finish second in the conference race; it may take a little while for the PG situation to work itself out, but with State’s terrific front-court, this is going to be a very tough squad.

    MSU is a tough place to win, especially if you have to start a RS or true freshman at PG in a hostile environment against a cagey player like Drew Neitzel. I actually don’t think MSU will be awesome this year, so this win is within reach for State, but in college ball the lynch-pin is the PG and we just have no idea how that position will be filled.

  11. packgrad93 09/20/2007 at 11:33 AM #

    Sid had/has 3 players with NBA skills in Fells, Grant & Costner. Sid gets in doors of top recruits that were closed for a long time. Face it, Herb built a solid foundation which Sid should (& I believe will) take to a higher level.

  12. redfred2 09/20/2007 at 1:15 PM #

    “I think that there is absolutely no question that Sendek inherited a PROGRAM in worse shape than did Sid.”

    That is just SO easy to say…IN RETROSPECT and after Lowe took a bunch of kids whose confidence was sorely lacking, others players bailing left and right because they’d already lost interest in the program, as well as the sport of basketball itself, and made that lopsided bunch of former three point artist learn the game of basketball all over again, and believe in themselves again as well.

    But just keep on sunshining, the people who are too young to know any better are eating it up. BTW, you will all know and understand what I’m talking about shortly.

  13. redfred2 09/20/2007 at 1:25 PM #

    It’s funny to me that there is even anything to debate about as far who inherited what, and so on. But the fact remains that this is still very much a legitmate debate. But how? Afterall Herb followed a plagued Les Robinson didn’t he?

    Lowe came in after TEN YEARS of Sendek progress. But as I said before, it’s a very legitmate debate.

  14. beowolf 09/20/2007 at 1:31 PM #

    While we’re revisiting the past, let us also not forget a key change that soured State fans’ relationship with Sendek. Sendek came to NC State with his ties to Rick Pitino much heralded — and Pitino had just won a national championship then. Sendek “knew the Kentucky system.” Sendek was going to upload the Kentucky system at NC State just as soon as he “had the horses to run it.”

    The Kentucky system was tight defense, full court ball pressure, high octane offense often set up by defensive stops. The full thing needed 9-10 ACC caliber players, and in Herb’s first years, of course, we didn’t have that and no one expected us to.

    Once we finally did have a complete bench, however, Sendek uploaded the ‘modified Princeton offense’ — the merits and failings of which need no restatement here.

  15. packgrad93 09/20/2007 at 3:33 PM #

    “How was McCauley considered a part of ‘great young foundation’ PRIOR to Sidney’s arrival?

    He was a solid top100 recruit.

    “Lowe walked into a program with SIX healthy scholarship players”
    7 I believe. 3 of which have NBA talent plus a experienced PG.

    “he inherited a Top 200 kid named Dennis Horner.”
    Horner was top100

    The situation was better not only becase of talent, but look at the last 5 years preceeding the new hire. Plus the additions of the RBC center &Dail Complex. NCSU had bright in high profile recruits like Hodge, Wilkins, Ced, etc… which opened up doors that have closed for years. Not a comparison.

  16. Rick 09/20/2007 at 5:04 PM #

    “The situation was better not only becase of talent, but look at the last 5 years preceeding the new hire. ”

    He has completely ignored all of the posts arguing that the talent is not better. Got to be Cedar.

    BTW, the fact that it is even an argument tells me all I need to know about the sand walker.

  17. redfred2 09/20/2007 at 6:28 PM #

    Rick, what “connifer junior” up there just can’t seem to understand is that in even admitting that there is a comparison to begin with, between the talent levels in Sendek’s year one, and ten years later which is that of Lowe’s first season, he is absolutely admitting that what Sendek left here after a decade is absolutely comparable to what he started out here with.

    Duh.

  18. choppack1 09/20/2007 at 9:25 PM #

    I think from a personnell standpoint both Sendek and Lowe walked into similar situations. However, from a “state of the program” – Lowe clearly enjoyed some advantages. Those kids that Sendek coach had never even been to the NIT. Heck, even Damon Thorton came from a high school program where a team w/ him and Kenny Inge somehow managed only to go like 14-12. Of course, we hired their coach as an assistant.

    Beo – at the end of the day – I don’t think the fans would have given a tinker’s damn about the offense. I think they wanted us to beat our rivals OR win some kind of titles. He never did. I think that’s why a lot of us who didn’t even clamour for his firing weren’t sorry to see him go. IMHO, the relationship between the fans and Herb was somewhat similar to TOB and BC.

  19. redfred2 09/20/2007 at 10:08 PM #

    chop,

    Good point about TOB and BC. We’ll have to wait and see if it’s correct or not.

    We all know that are places that would love to do what the NCSU basketball program did under the former coach. It may be great for those who have only ever known two BB coaches at State, but nothing about that makes it good enough when there are still people around who know better.

    Thank God that we stumbled upon, and hired, one of those folks this time around.

  20. choppack1 09/20/2007 at 10:56 PM #

    Yep – RF – the biggest difference is that Herb wasn’t our most successful b’ball coach since college athletics became integrated!

    I’m glad we got Sidney too – and it’s real nice to be excited about b’ball season. (I haven’t been really excited about b’ball in a long time.)

  21. nycfan 09/21/2007 at 11:19 AM #

    I honestly find it hard to believe that there is any debate about the differing states of the NC State program when Sendek took over versus Lowe. Despite the disarray of the coaching search and the player personnel losses in 2006, State’s program in substantially better shape when Lowe walked in the door than it was in ’96. The pall over the program in the Les years was terrible.

    Could the program have been in a lot better shape ten years later? Absolutely, hence the (justified, IMO) resentment of Sendek. Herb is timid. His offense reflects that. His defense reflects that — grind it out until they make a mistake, rather than gambling to force mistakes and easy points (with the downside of giving up potential easy baksets in return).

    His results at State reflect that. He build a solid little program that would have been nice work at Ohio (maybe even at Clemson) but was a shell of what State had been and could be under different leadership. He did not bring back the prominence to State b/c (a) he couldn’t and (b) I think that is inability to elevate State from NCAA Tournament participant to NCAA tournament contender was b/c at some level he didn’t want the pressure of being a prominent team, of playing the big games under the lights. His OOC scheduling reflected that.

    As an aside on the offense, though, Pitino has not had much luck with generating tons of offense since he returned to Louisville, mostly b/c he hasn’t been able to assemble the talent it took to do what they did at KY.

  22. packgrad93 09/21/2007 at 11:35 AM #

    The 2 teams each coach inherited had about the same potential for their 1st seasons, hence the similar results. But for future seasons I’d rather have young NBA prospects to work with & build around.

    “Despite the disarray of the coaching search and the player personnel losses in 2006, State’s program in substantially better shape when Lowe walked in the door than it was in ‘96.”

    there’s no question

  23. Mike 09/21/2007 at 4:57 PM #

    Amazing – anyone with an open mind should not be having this debate. Talent???? Costner and McCauley are direct results of the work the coaching staff put in. Their game changed drastically as the season went on. McCauley was a 6’9″ goober his freshman year, completely lost. The guy wanted to transfer. Costner did not play much b/c of injury, but his injury was a blessing b/c he did not have to suffer through Herb’s system. Those guys were talented, but they were not anywhere near the potential of their talent in Herb’s regime. It was only after Sid came in and worked with them all year, that by the end of the year, we can say “Hey those guys can play.” They sure struggled early in the year, check the facts.

    As for the state of the program, we were down in 96, and we were down again in 2006. Couold be cyclical, but I think the whole point is success breeds success. After 5 straight years of NCAA tourneys, the program SHOULD have been in better shape.

    I might be in the minority for saying this, but Coach K at Duke proves success breeds success. I truly dont think K is a great coach. I think he is a good coach. He struggled early, then brought in some good players. Once they started winning, more good players followed. All of a sudden, Duke “does not recruit, they select”. Why? Because the best players all wanted to go to Duke. It was UNX in the 70’s and 80’s, Duke in the 90’s and 2000’s. Sendek should have been on that same road where the success should be a snowball, rolling downhill and getting bigger. Sendek’s was a snowman – the snowball just sitting there, melting in the sun. Why did all the big names (except Hodge) leave early? And to top it off, Hodge was one of (if not the top) the top recruits coming out of HS. Hodge’s best year was his freshman year, and he clearly regressed his entire career. One can place some of the blame on a kid for regressing, but in Hodge’s case, I dont think so. Why didnt Benjamin work out? Missed potential? Possibly. More likely, it was the head man.

    I am rambling and will cut it here. THIS PROGRAM IS FAR BETTER TODAY AFTER ONE YEAR of Sid Lowe than after 10 years of HWSNBN. This program was NOT BETTER AFTER 10 YEARS of HWSNBN.

  24. Wulfpack 09/21/2007 at 5:09 PM #

    “Hodge’s best year was his freshman year, and he clearly regressed his entire career.”

    Say what? Don’t think so.

    “THIS PROGRAM IS FAR BETTER TODAY AFTER ONE YEAR of Sid Lowe than after 10 years of HWSNBN. This program was NOT BETTER AFTER 10 YEARS of HWSNBN.”

    The debate was who inherited worse teams. And compared to what Herb inherited, after 10 years, the program was light years ahead of what it was under Les.

    Sid has enormous potential, but let’s not count the eggs before they hatch.

  25. redfred2 09/21/2007 at 6:28 PM #

    Wulfpack, then what you’re saying is that this debate is all about what Les Robinson left behind after struggling through probation with limits on everything he could have done anyway, versus what Herb Sendek left after his decade of free reign at NCSU. Sad thing is, I definitely see the comparison that you’re making there, but either way, what Sidney Lowe does from here on out doesn’t even have any bearing on what you’re saying.

1 2 3 4

Leave a Reply