10 Points Against Louisville (UofL 29, NC State 10)

'07 Football General NCS Football164

The Cardinals’ secondary has been burned on long passes all season. So what does the Wolfpack do? Come out throwing short slants, screens and bootleg passes to the tight end in the first half. Go figure.

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'07 Football General NCS Football

164 Responses to 10 Points Against Louisville (UofL 29, NC State 10)

  1. JimValvano 09/30/2007 at 10:10 AM #

    oops…Evans is a junior. Still…he should get the starts this year for all the reasons stated above.

  2. choppack1 09/30/2007 at 10:29 AM #

    BJD – That train of thought would be fine if it was the “D” that was costing us games. It’s not. Against vs. BC and the ‘ville – our bend but don’t break D strategy kept us in the game as we entered the 2nd half. In both of those games, it was our offenses inability to stop turning the ball over.

    Noah – if you read my post – I said TOB needs a chance to bring his players in, but he needs to take some blame for this. Operative word being “some”

    I wish I could see practice. I really wonder why Russell Wilson isn’t given a shot. Statisically, he was actually superior to the other QBs in the practices. Of course, we have no idea the context of those stats. I don’t buy the normal burning redshirt argument w/ Wilson since he’s a baseball prospect – and we should know from Brackman, we’ll be lucky to get 2 years from him. I do know this – he can’t do any worse than our QBs.

    I don’t know the answer as to how to stop this TO monster. If I did, I’d be a heck of a football coach. I do know this – while TOB should get time to get his folks in – he doesn’t get a total pass on the next 2 years. He needs to give the fans some reason for hope. Otherwise, those fans that were the reason for him considering this job, won’t be as plentiful by the time his guys get here.

  3. BJD95 09/30/2007 at 10:56 AM #

    If O’Brien didn’t have a proven track record and was recruiting poorly, then I wouldn’t give him a complete pass.

    Our defense has been bad, but not awful. I agree that the reason for not being awful is Archer’s philosophy. But we must score a significant number of points to win. Evans can’t move the ball enough to do so, and Beck turns it over too much. Both are hampered (as would Burke or Wilson) by horrid OL play.

    There are no alternatives that would fix things this year. None. We are wasting our breath and fingertips trying to come up with any.

    As far as marginal improvements, I expect to see more designed rollouts out of the shotgun with Beck, assuming he’s healthy enough to play.

    An option or run-based offense with Wilson simply isn’t feasible. If our line can’t pass block, it certainly can’t run block, or learn an option scheme in mid-stream. We simply need linemen and Glennon to run Bible’s system effectively. That will start in year 3.

  4. JimValvano 09/30/2007 at 10:57 AM #

    I’m telling you. After a fumble…I would sit the guy who dropped the ball for at least 3 offensive series. If the guy fumbles again at any point in the season I sit him for a half. At another point in the season…for the rest of the game. At another point in the season…he may not see the field again. Some fumbles are reasonable, but fumbles like the one Andre Brown had yesterday on the drive in the third quarter are ridiculous. Andre did come out with his head down and I did feel sorry for him, but I felt much more sorry for the rest of the offense who he had let down after they finally were putting something together. The interceptions are a different animal. With an o-line that can’t block…things like that happen. There’s not much you can do…take a sack?

    choppack1…did you read my post above yours about the quarterback situation? After reading it you still feel like throwing Wilson out there?

  5. noah 09/30/2007 at 11:20 AM #

    The defense isn’t THE problem because there isn’t a SINGULAR problem. We gave up 250 yards rushing yesterday to a team that couldn’t run the ball against anyone. Their TB looked like Jim Brown….and he had six total yards of rushing coming into the game.

    As far as Wilson goes, I’m not sure where you are getting information that MLB is going to change their draft rules. You can’t be drafted until you are three years removed from high school….so, yes, we’ll get more than two years from Wilson. Furthermore, he was a 41st round draft pick last season. While I’m sure he’s a gifted athlete, I don’t believe he’s a major priority for scouting directors.

    And yes, you can do worse. We had five turnovers yesterday and scored 10 points. Five is not the most number of turnovers you can commit and 10 is not the lowest number of points. Beck completed about 55 percent of his passes yesterday and only had two picks. Evans completed more than 60 percent of his passes and didn’t have any picks.

    The problem is the line…the line….the line. An offensive line is like a roof. If you have a two-foot hole in your roof, the fact that 99 percent of your roof is structurally intact does not matter. A hole, of any size, in a roof means the roof doesn’t work.

    Likewise, it does not matter if Kalani Heppe and Julian Williams grade out at a 100 percent if Luke Lathan and Meares Green have all the resistance of wet toilet-paper.

    I’m neither attacking or defending Harrison Beck. But the FACT is that he can’t focus entirely on his receivers or the secondary or the guys playing underneath because he knows that at least two def. linemen are coming free and untouched. He can’t wait for patterns to develop because he has about two seconds to get rid of the ball.

    People say, “Well, Andre Brown ran well against FSU and S. Miss!” Yeah, two years ago when he had Chris Colmer and Leroy Harris and Derek Morris blocking for him.

    You want a reason to hope? Have you looked at the class he’s putting together? Terrell Manning and Dwayne Maddox are going to be in the starting lineup from day one. The linemen will take longer. So will Glennon. But whether they are ready or not, Manning and Maddox are going to hit the ground (hopefully running) from the start. Brandon Barnes is probably going to do the same thing. We’ve got pretty good young players at WR and I still think that a healthy Jerrail McCullers, free of suspensions and ready to go, represents a colossal upgrade at tackle. Andy Barbee and Desmond Roberts are two good prospects at center and guard. I think we’ll take a step closer next year.

  6. vtpackfan 09/30/2007 at 11:35 AM #

    JValvano…..it’s football. Not WWII. Not chess. You don’t think in terms of expendable men and pawns. That logic, although creative, flies in the face of fielding a competitve football team, IMO.

    WTD with “Evan’s gives us the best shot to win” folks? He might allow another team to fall on their face (BC and FSU last season) and lead us to three staight years of three win seasons. Then what, start from scratch after he’s left?

    The atrrition rate of upperclassmen has retarded any system of growth imaginable. QB, LB, and a little of the DL, DB, and WR are the only positions he can build experience moving forward. We a pathetic, are graduating alot of pathetic and replacing them with the unknown. Yet the Coach and a quadroplet who should be at a 1 AA school if not for his last name get all the emphasis.

  7. VaWolf82 09/30/2007 at 11:38 AM #

    I wish we would just stay focused on trying to establish a running game.

    The only thing that this would accomplish would be to hide the poor QB play by highlighting the poor OL play. Here is the entire series that you were glowing about during the game thread:

    Starting with 4:20 left in the 3rd quarter

    D. Evans rushed to the left for 6 yard gain
    A. Brown rushed up the middle for 5 yard gain
    A. Brown rushed to the right for 7 yard gain

    Looks pretty good, you’re saying. Now watch what happens with 2nd and 3 on two straight runs:

    A. Brown rushed to the left for 2 yard gain
    A. Brown rushed to the right for no gain
    B. Pierson punt, no return

    No matter who the QB is, State has exactly zero chance of “establishing the run”….almost no matter who the opponent is. If DE is the QB, then the defenses crowd the line of scrimmage…..taking away the run and short passes…..which is all that DE can manage.

  8. VaWolf82 09/30/2007 at 11:42 AM #

    I really wonder why Russell Wilson isn’t given a shot.

    Yea, I wonder why a lightly-recruitied true freshman QB isn’t playing? What ever could the coaches be thinking? 😉

  9. statered 09/30/2007 at 12:05 PM #

    I can not disagree mor ewith those thinking Evans needs to start. He absolutely is not D1 material physically. He also does not stand in the pocket well when it starts to collapse which it has done a lot lately.

    You can coach up bad decision makers; you cannot grow new arms on weak armed QBs.

  10. CaptainCraptacular 09/30/2007 at 12:25 PM #

    Noah and Dogbreath (from the previous thread): Chris Daughtry was a finalist on American Idol one recent season (the only season my girlfriend successfully got me to watch). He is from North Carolina and in one of the meet Chris segments he was wearing a Wolfpack cap, so he’s a fan. Perhaps he even lurks and reads SFN. He lost on American Idol, but had more talent than the rest of the singers combined. Singing covers, he was my favorite by far.

    In other news….extremely small consolation, but I’m very glad my 23 point by halftime blowout prediction was wrong.

  11. Wulfpack 09/30/2007 at 12:45 PM #

    VaWolf, I guess what I am saying is, well, we have two QBs that just aren’t very good. One of them has a strong arm but lacks decision making ability to the point where the game is lost (see BC) b/c we are constantly giving the ball back to opposing offenses. Beck lost that game. He gave us zero chance. The other, well, has a very weak arm and plays rather tentative. He minimizes the mistake but don’t expect anything spectacular from him (save for BC last year). He is much more a manager of a game than a play maker.

    We have a very capable RB in my opinion with a very poor line. I’ve seen Andre break a few big runs and he ran/played well yesterday, save for the fumble. When you run the ball, the clock runs and we have a much better chance at winning games this year by shortening games.

    When you throw it up for grabs time and time again, or go into shotgun with a makeshift line, we have zero chance. At least with the run, if you hit it quick, you have a chance at positive yardage. And assuming Andre can hold onto the ball from here on out, the TO probablity is minimized.

    Just my two cents. We can agree to disagree, but I have always heard that if a team is at a serious disadvantage week in and week out, your best bet is to run. It’s a hell lot more simpler than throwing INT’s every other possession.

  12. noah 09/30/2007 at 12:54 PM #

    American Idol is that karaoke contest they put on Fox, correct?

  13. noah 09/30/2007 at 12:57 PM #

    Where are you getting “zero percent” from? And Beck threw two interceptions yesterday. How is that “every other possession?”

  14. Wolf Dog 09/30/2007 at 1:06 PM #

    I thought our O line played its best game of the season yesterday, we at times had an actual running game. Right side of O line seems to be playing a lot better. TOB is doing the right thing Beck has a strong arm but a lack of game experience and makes bad decisions at times. Only way we got a chance in the future is to throw him to the fire and hope he matures. Evans is a great kid but just not able to deliver the ball fast enough. Defensive backs can adjust too quikly to Evans’ slow ball. Defense was improved yesterday, just on the field all day. TOB and staff really having to adjust the teams attitude. This team does not see itself as a winner. Was really pleased with the TV crew yesterday, they were all over the tail gaiting and how great the facilties were. Love the fact that they keep throwing out that TOB thinks we are a sleeping giant. Was great to see FSU beat Bama last night and was very pleased to see Chuck the Chest smiling and being part of that. No matter what anyone thinks of the man he gave us his best, took a chance on a lot of recruits becuase remember he was recruiting before the new facilties were in place so he rolled the dice to try and make us a better program.. His teams gave effort, he didn’t do a bad job every year, we played tough d, and he did at times bring in some of the best assistant coaches we ever had. No use bashing the guy, he doesn’t bash us.
    At this point I am looking for a team that improves week to week and yesterday I saw some improvement over the team that played Clemson. I think we have a better chance against FSU than we had against Louisville and Clemson because FSU is still a team that doesn’t score a lot of points.

  15. Wulfpack 09/30/2007 at 1:07 PM #

    Fine. Turning the ball over gives us a “very little” chance to win.

    He has nine interceptions on the year. I would be interested to know how many series he has played this season. He threw three passes into double and triple coverage. The long pass which set up Evans’ TD was a jump ball. I know the kid has an arm, but try throwing it to your own team.

  16. noah 09/30/2007 at 1:14 PM #

    I thought the jump ball was what we were SUPPOSED to throw because Louisville couldn’t defend it.

    Likewise, after the UCF game, everyone said, “How can TOB be thinking of playing Evans? Beck gives us the best shot to win!”

    I’ve never known maxims and certainties to be so fluid.

  17. Wulfpack 09/30/2007 at 1:18 PM #

    ^I have said since BC that Beck is NOT the guy. His decision making that game was atrocious. He didn’t do much to dispel that notion yesterday. Evans should be our QB.

  18. choppack1 09/30/2007 at 1:22 PM #

    Regarding Wilson – He definitely wasn’t as highly recruited as Beck, Burke or Jay Davis, but he’s a winner. I’m not asking that the staff implement a new offense for him either. Here’s why I’m to get to see him this year.
    1) He appears more suited to an improvisational role than Evans. He’s more mobile than Evans. Our QB is going to have to throw on the run and make plays w/ his feet. Evans can’t do either. Beck can throw on the run, but he shows horrid judgement in the area of WHEN to run.
    2) I believe his arm strength is better than Evans. This falls in the category of “can it possibly be worse.”
    3) I believe he’ll be more accurate and better decisions than Beck. This once again falls in the category of “can it be possibly worse” when compared to Beck.

    If his stats were worse or weren’t better than the other 3 QBs, I probably wouldn’t be clamouring for him. I don’t care where he’s rated. The second best state QB in recent memory was short and not fast enough to play safety even though he was recruited for that position. We’ve all seen the parade of highly rated QBs in the last 5-6 years yield marginal results for everyone but Florida, LSU and USC.

  19. Wolf Dog 09/30/2007 at 1:24 PM #

    Some coaches are better at coming in and winning with other people’s kids. Lou Holtz comes to mind. Others are better at building a program and winning with their own kids. Mack Brown and Frank Beamer come to mind. TOB falls into later category and I think we have to give him time to build. We need a foundation and that is something we haven’t had since Sheridan was here. I think TOB understands that and it is going to take time.

  20. BJD95 09/30/2007 at 2:13 PM #

    This is a good conversation (especially compared to Wolfpack message boards), and I commend everyone on that.

    Whoever said that Evans can “manage a game” is right. But, Beck can also do that, as he did against Wofford. Problem is, we have to do MUCH MORE than that to beat any team on our schedule not named Wofford. That’s the reality of having a so-so defense that’s barely capable of pulling off “bend don’t break” and a very poor offensive line.

    We MUST adjust Beck’s risk tolerance higher against the non-Wofford opponents. So far, with the exception of the second half against UCF, the results haven’t been good. But play like we got from Beck in that second half is the ONLY way this team can ever win. I think the coaching staff surmises (correctly, IMHO) that the other QBs aren’t capable of EVER producing that level of play. So Beck starts, warts and all.

    People act like Beck single-handedly lost the game against BC. If the game had been managed “Evans style,” then maybe we lose 23-10 instead of 39-20. Big deal – we still lose.

  21. noah 09/30/2007 at 2:20 PM #

    More good news for you, BJD….7-1 Marlins in the first.

  22. VaWolf82 09/30/2007 at 2:44 PM #

    He (DE) minimizes the mistakes

    No he doesn’t. Remember the safety in a game lost by two points? Remember 2006? (11 INTs versus 6 TDs.) We have plenty of data on DE…..and it doesn’t support your claims.

    There are a limited number of things that a coaching staff can do without an OL or a QB. Just to be clear……I blame neither the kids nor the coaches for this miserable season. I have no reason to doubt that they are all doing their best. The problem is that their best is not sufficient to win many games.

    The problem is not that the kids were recruited by Amato. The problem is that they were all that Amato could get. Combine the increased standards for the UNC system of colleges with Amato’s declining reputation and you get exactly the kind of recruiting classes that we have over the last several seasons.

  23. noah 09/30/2007 at 2:48 PM #

    And more good news on that front…those standards will affect everyone next year (I think), so we’ll be on more of an even ground.

  24. noah 09/30/2007 at 3:03 PM #

    Phils 3-0. Mets have the bases loaded with two outs, down 7-1. Both Willis and Glavine have been pulled.

  25. VaWolf82 09/30/2007 at 3:11 PM #

    those standards will affect everyone next year (I think)

    Not exactly, but the NCAA standards (starting with 2008 class) will be much closer to what the UNC system implemented several years ago.

    NCAA requires 3 years of math; UNC – 4 years
    NCAA has no foreign language requirement; UNC – 2 years.
    NCAA requires 2 years science; UNC – 3 years

    But in total; the NCAA requirements defines 16 core courses and the UNC system requires 15 specific classes.

    More details here:

    http://www.statefansnation.com/index.php/archives/2006/06/18/unc-system-admission-requirements/

    (Cut and paste if the link doesn’t go in correctly.)

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