Tuesday Bytes

General86

Doing some traveling this week but wanted to get a fresh entry up. Feel free to use the comments in this entry to discuss anything that may be going on out there.

* With a new football coach (and basketball coach), NC State fans don’t have to talk about the hotseat for a while. This is a welcome change in Raleigh.

* I found this statistic very interesting. Who knows how bad Chuck Amato’s recent teams would have scored under this metric. Perhaps we will track MOE some during this season.

* Have you seen this regarding NC State’s ‘Tradition’ of Friday Fight Day? Man, we really did have the biggest meatheads in college football running our program the last seven years.

* Former ACC referee Hank Nichols is retiring as the national coordinator of officials.

* Ricky Stokes is out as ECU’s Head Basketball coach. It is ECU Basketball…so, nobody really gives a shit; but since we now play East Carolina in everything to tiddly winks then it is something for us not to ignore. Of course, there is more to this story that will never be made public. 850 has a little more.

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86 Responses to Tuesday Bytes

  1. tractor57 08/07/2007 at 9:21 PM #

    I’ll always remember a comment from a coworker (and a State alum) about Washburn – “he’s real trouble”. Wouldn’t have mattered much but my coworker’s wife taught Washburn for part of the HS saga.

  2. whitefang 08/07/2007 at 9:22 PM #

    Cap’n and PAPacker another Red Tornado here (or Red Tomato as we sometimes called ourselves in the 70’s). My brother was a friend of and in the same class at HHS as Washburn. He mentions to me sometimes that he runs into Chris in Hky from time to time although he hasn’t mentioned this lately. I am going to ask him for an update tomorrow as this thread has sparked my curiosity as to how he is doing now.
    Also I seem to remember that Washburn’s and Madden’s SAT scores were exactly the same, but of course our main newspaper in Hky (the charlotte observer branch of the Daily Tarheel) downplayed that.

  3. JimValvano 08/07/2007 at 11:06 PM #

    Forget the Red Tornadoes…the Red Devils are where its at.

    lol

  4. RabidWolf 08/08/2007 at 7:23 AM #

    OMFG!! I come home from a nice bit of time off in Ireland, and what is one of the first things I see on the blog?? WASHBURN!!!!!! This topic is like Herpes, you think it’s gone, but then there it is in your face all over again!

  5. waxhaw 08/08/2007 at 8:08 AM #

    “Except that ignores the FBI investigation, Charles Shackleford walking out on a more lucrative contract with the Nets to play for LESS money in Italy (where he was less likely to face extradition) and the murder on the Jersey Turnpike of the guy accused of being the go-between.”

    How does that prove institutional involvement? All you have shown is that it is possible, maybe even likely, that one player point shaved. As I mentioned, it happened all the time at a lot of schools.

    My guess is the FBI investigation was forced due to everything else rumored to be going on. Kind of like the NCAA investigation that found squat. You know where there’s smoke there’s fire?

    Should an entire generation of wolfpackers be held responsible for one bad apple? or 2-3 bad apples?

  6. RickJ 08/08/2007 at 8:28 AM #

    “Can someone give me the name of the senior guard in 73? I can remember his dunk at the end of the ACC championship, even though illegal!”

    Highstick – That would be Joe Cafferky.

  7. BoKnowsNCS71 08/08/2007 at 8:41 AM #

    On Washburn recruiting. It may have been SI or some other mag but I recall an article that talked about Washburn getting letters from coaches all over the country starting when he was about 11 years old. They actually had photos of some of the letters. He was in the top 3 of recrutis and every school wanted Chris because he was a man-child. State got him — all our opponents wanted him — and unfortunately he was immature. Borrowing/stealing a stereo over the holidays, never went to class, and relied on his natural talent versus developing himself. The rest is a sad decline.

  8. BoKnowsNCS71 08/08/2007 at 9:05 AM #

    Good article on our kicking game. Lots of changes here from the Duraney days. Hope this works out. http://www.wral.com/sports/story/1679739/

  9. noah 08/08/2007 at 9:27 AM #

    “How does that prove institutional involvement?”

    When did I say otherwise? Why would any school EVER be involved in point shaving?

    You shave points by getting a player (poor, available, short-sighted and corruptible) to play badly in a game with a big spread. And then you bet heavy on the underdog.

    We’re not talking about huge amounts of money changing hands here.

    “As I mentioned, it happened all the time at a lot of schools.”

    Not since the 1950s, it hasn’t. In fact, since the early 1970s, the FBI has largely neutered the influence of organized crime. Whereas they once were involved in pretty much every aspect of commercial life in the northeast and places like Chicago and Cleveland, they’ve pretty much been reduced to drugs and fencing stolen goods…but nowhere near the amount as they once did.

    If it happened all the time, 1) no one would ever gamble on sports because they’d think it’s fixed. Judging by the fact that sports gambling totals $200 billion, I’d say most people think its real; and 2) it wouldn’t be news when it happens. As it turns out…it’s ENORMOUS news that dominates the coverage for a couple of days when it happens. Even at a little school like Toledo.

  10. RabidWolf 08/08/2007 at 9:35 AM #

    Would anyone be surprised if TOB used D. Evans on a quick kick play at some point?? I know for a fact he’s a fairly decent punter and, since he plays QB, opponents would never have any idea that this particular old-school trick play was coming! You never know!

  11. noah 08/08/2007 at 9:38 AM #

    “Should an entire generation of wolfpackers be held responsible for one bad apple? or 2-3 bad apples?”

    Just one generation??

    The 1919 Black Sox scandal almost wiped out baseball. And it would be decades before the Chisox were a factor again.

    College basketball in New York never recovered from the 1951 scandal. In fact, one of the reasons St. Johns was a strong program is because they were the ONE New York school that didn’t de-emphasize basketball.

    Tulane never recovered from their point-shaving scam. Boston College took a long time returning from their scandal. Arizona State never recovered from its point shaving problems.

    Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe Jackson will never be in the HOF and will never clear their names. Neither will Art Schlicter.

    Paul Hornung and Alex Karras nearly had their careers ended just for being ASSOCIATED with gambling. They were never accused of fixing games.

  12. joe 08/08/2007 at 10:09 AM #

    The BC point shaving was mentioned in the movie Goodfellas. Right before they killed that guy Morrie one of them said “Did you hear about the points we shaved up in Boston?” Henry Hill was part of that point shaving right before he went into the witness protection plan.

  13. BoKnowsNCS71 08/08/2007 at 10:16 AM #

    Joe — good article on that in ESPN 2 http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=philbrick/070727

    Also when TOB came to BC the school was reeling from another point shaving scandal in football.

  14. noah 08/08/2007 at 10:48 AM #

    There’s a funny story on the Goodfellas commentary track about that point shaving scandal. Apparently, Henry Hill had no idea that point shaving was illegal. He mentioned it in passing to the investigator about shaving some points at “Boston University.” The investigator (who plays himself in the movie) with the FBI was a BC graduate and said, “Henry, I don’t think Boston University would have a line in Vegas. They aren’t very good. Do you mean Boston College?” Hill said, “yeah, whatever.”

    The investigator thought his buddies were setting him up on a joke…but gradually realized his alma mater had actually done this. Or, more specifically…Rick Kuen had done this.

  15. Wulfpack 08/08/2007 at 12:14 PM #

    Wake Assistant Coach Dino Gaudio has been named the successor to Skip Prosser.

  16. highstick 08/08/2007 at 12:18 PM #

    Rabidwolf, sorry the Washburn thing is bugging you, and you can blame me. I finally read V’s book this past weekend and was trying to get some questions in my mind clarified. Reference to him is purely part of the whole chain of events that took place back then.

    I think V’s books should be renamed, “They Gave Me a Lifetime Contract and a Gun, Then Put the Gun to My Head and Pulled the Trigger”. Or something along that line.

    NY basketball used to be very good! CCNY, NYU, Manhattan had some great teams.

  17. RabidWolf 08/08/2007 at 12:53 PM #

    It’s just one of those points in the storied history of NC State basketball that I like to fantasize never happened.

    V’s book is incredible, and so is his brother’s, they both give a fair and accurate portrayal of who JV really was. IMHO, JV was a great man, a great coach, and above all…human. Good men make mistakes, it is learning and growing from those mistakes that makes them great. JV took on too much at once. If he would have remained head BB coach and NOT taken the AD job….who knows what might have been. He had way too much on his plate to be able to manage the team (of teenagers, mind you) AS WELL AS……FB, soccer, baseball, track, tennis, etc..etc..you see where this is going, right?

    I love and miss JV tremendously, and pray that SL can bring NC State back to the glory of decades past. It would be fitting.

  18. BoKnowsNCS71 08/08/2007 at 1:23 PM #

    Highstick == Monteith made V “an offer he couldn’t refuse.” And for that — every time the alumni club calls for money — I remind them.

  19. highstick 08/08/2007 at 3:14 PM #

    I’m supposed to pick up Bob V’s book tomorrow at the library.

    Ironically, this morning I was looking on the net about “point shaving” and tripped across Bill Friday’s book and his memoirs on the issue in the ACC. I guess I’d forgotten the connection with Doug Moe at UNCX, but distinctly remember Lou Brown back then. Sometime a year or two after that happened, my Mom relayed to me that a he ended up in an NC hospital where she worked. Someone asked him what he did and his reponse was to the effect that “he fixed basketball games”. This may not be totally correct, but it seems like that what she told me back then.

    From Friday’s book, it also looks like the restrictions related to the Dixie Classic were basically self-imposed by him and the chancellors at State and UNC. Seems like the rest of the Board weren’t going anywhere with the issue. I just wonder if the situation would have been different if there had been a strong leader of the BOG and BOT when they asked V to take the AD job also. Seems like anyone in their right mind would have known that was too much for one person to handle, not to say creating a situation that might not be healthy for V or the university.

  20. BoKnowsNCS71 08/08/2007 at 3:41 PM #

    V had turned down UCLA to stay at State. Pretty amazing also.

  21. waxhaw 08/08/2007 at 3:43 PM #

    Noah — “And btw, I’m speaking as someone who has and had a problem with what V and the administration were doing. I believe we did shave points. I believe we were wrong in admitting about 75 percent of the basketball players and so on and so on.”

    Waxhaw — “You could probably analyze 10,000 collegiate games and find suspicious missed layups in most of them. Making a leap from a suspicious botched play to institutional points shaving is a mighty long leap.”

    Noah — “Except that ignores the FBI investigation, Charles Shackleford walking out on a more lucrative contract with the Nets to play for LESS money in Italy (where he was less likely to face extradition) and the murder on the Jersey Turnpike of the guy accused of being the go-between. ”

    Maybe I misunderstood what you meant by “we” were shaving points.

  22. waxhaw 08/08/2007 at 3:50 PM #

    Was Gaudio named successor or interim?

  23. Wulfpack 08/08/2007 at 4:02 PM #

    Successor – 3-year deal

  24. PamlicoPack 08/08/2007 at 4:03 PM #

    Noah….interesting points. I tend to agree about Shackelford…I was at school at the time… can’t give any specific instances, but remember he would have these maddening stretches of blazing ineffectiveness at times in games, and they did seem to be against inferior opponents (the prime candidates for point shaving)…Betcha oldtimers in the Athletics Department may know some things they’ve never publicly admitted…Shackelford hasn’t been publicly recognized or even mentioned as attending anything associated with the hoops program in my memory…

  25. joe 08/08/2007 at 4:20 PM #

    After Kitley went off on Shackelford in that game Shack told the media he had an off day due to “dental problems” Sounds like a pretty lame excuse.

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