Southern Pigskin Omits Rivers from All-Decade Team

Alums General NCS Football Rankings & Lists98

Southern Pigskin has attempted to put together an All-ACC football team for the last decade. You can see the team here.

I guess I have to respect them for trying, even if they made a significant whiff on the most important position on the field.

I’m guessing that their ‘rationale’ for putting Chris Weinke on the team ahead of Philip Rivers is based in Weinke’s Heisman Trophy and FSU’s National Championship. BFD. The Heisman is largely a product of playing for such a strong, National Championship team…and is representative of ONE SEASON.

I appreciate the inclusion of Terrance Holt at one of the safety positions…but, I am not sure that Holt is even the best safety at NC State in the last decade, let alone the entire conference.

In a related entry, you can click here for a great look at SFN’s 50-Man All-Amato Team.

We’d love to hear your thoughts.

About StateFans

'StateFansNation' is the shared profile used by any/all of the dozen or so authors that contribute to the blog. You may not always agree with us, but you will have little doubt about where we stand on most issues. Please follow us on Twitter and FaceBook

Alums General NCS Football Rankings & Lists

98 Responses to Southern Pigskin Omits Rivers from All-Decade Team

  1. noah 08/02/2007 at 12:07 PM #

    MadWolf – If that’s your argument, then the #2 running back in NC State history is TA McLendon, not Tremayne Stephens.

    Calvin Johnson’s very best stats are not so far above and beyond what Torry Holt, Peter Warrick, Cotchery or Campbell did.

    Johnson’s appeal is that he’s probably the most physically gifted wide receiver to ever play the game in the ACC.

    Sandy Koufax’s stats during the peak of his career (1963-1966) are as good as anyone’s during the modern era. His best seasons were better than just about everyone. Gooden in 1985 (24-4, 1.86 era) and Carlton in 1972 (when he won almost half of his team’s games) were probably the only thing comparable to Koufax’s best years.

    I don’t think Johnson’s best years at Georgia Tech were that much better than anyone in my top four.

    I’m going on memory here, so if you have evidence to the contrary, I’ll be happy to admit I’m wrong.

  2. noah 08/02/2007 at 12:16 PM #

    “My point is it has to be something more than just stats. No one thinks Timmy Chang is the best QB in NCAA history right?”

    Philip Rivers’ statistics are better than than Chang’s.

    http://tinyurl.com/yxmgnm

    I’m looking at page 190. Chang was in on over 1,000 more snaps than Rivers. Chang averaged 6.5 yards a snap, Rivers averaged 9.5 yards per snap.

    Rivers completed 67 percent of his passes, Chang completed 57 percent of his passes. Rivers threw for 95 touchdowns…Chang threw for 117. But again, 1,000 more plays.

    Rivers only had 34 ints, Chang had 80. So Rivers has an almost 3:1 TD to int ratio, Chang has about a 1.25:1 ratio (which is horrible).

    And this ignores the obvious differences…the types of offense they play in and the defenses they face.

    So, stats still tell you the answer. You just have to look at the right stats.

  3. lush 08/02/2007 at 12:41 PM #

    ^stats will tell you whatever you want them too.

    im not saying i disagree with you on Rivers, I think its clear he is better, but some could look at Changs stats and say he is better.

    Chang 117 TD’s – Rivers 95 = Chang was better
    Rivers 67% – Chang 57% = Philip was better

    it depends on which stats you look at, and how you interpret them.

  4. Mike 08/02/2007 at 12:51 PM #

    Who is the best basketball player of all time? My vote would be MJ, but if I had to pick the best college player of all time, a few others come to mind.

    The same can be said here – Peppers is a far better pro than college player, but his inclusion on this team could be influenced by his pro career. Manny and Mario both had strong careers, but Manny was a tweener – LB or DE? Mario had the same issues taking plays off as Peppers.

    I think Levar Fisher belongs at LB, but his pro career ended with a knee, while the guys on the team have pro careers. All perspective of where they are now. I dont know that there was a more dominating LB than Fisher. Ask the RB’s who should be on that team.

    Noah brings up a good point about Cotchery, but frankly Johnson, Holy, and Warrick are all worthy. Cotchery had great numbers, but he was not feared the way the 3 chosen were. Cotchery is a gamer – not great 40 speed, not great size, but no one ever caught him, no one ever outleaped him. Guy just went out and quietly did his job. Let’s give Cotch 3B.

  5. JimValvano 08/02/2007 at 1:05 PM #

    Okay so…

    QB—Rivers
    RB—Thomas Jones
    RB—Lamont Jordan
    WR—Peter Warrick
    WR—Jerricho Cotchery
    WR—Torry Holt

    Up next is Tight End…what do ya’ll think? Alge Crumpler or Heath Miller?

  6. JimValvano 08/02/2007 at 1:07 PM #

    I think Cotchery had better hands than anybody on the list that I made earlier…Cotchery caught almost every pass ever thrown his way. To this day, and even if ya’ll mock me for it, I’d take Cotchery over Johnson if I were an NFL GM.

  7. noah 08/02/2007 at 1:49 PM #

    “stats will tell you whatever you want them too.”

    Only if you look at the ones you like. I don’t think I’ve done that. Chang passed for more yardage and threw for more touchdowns. But it took him 1,000 more snaps to do so and yardage and touchdowns are NOT the mark of a great QB. It’s like saying Dave Kingman was a better hitter than Wade Boggs since he hit more homeruns.

    Completion percentage, yards per attempt and TD:Int. are the strongest indicators of one’s performance as a QB.

    The only people who would argue with that are people who try to tell you that Joe Namath was a good quarterback.

  8. noah 08/02/2007 at 1:55 PM #

    “I think Levar Fisher belongs at LB, but his pro career ended with a knee, while the guys on the team have pro careers. All perspective of where they are now. I dont know that there was a more dominating LB than Fisher. Ask the RB’s who should be on that team.”

    The linebackers they mention aren’t wrong. Fisher was a very good college linebacker, but he was not better nor was he as prolific nor was he as heralded nor did he make as big a difference for his team than the guys they mentioned.

    That’s not a slight against Fisher…it’s praise for the guys they chose.

    But we’re talking about TE…more on linebacker later.

    Miller is not a bad choice. But I really, really want to pick someone else. Alge Crumpler was a pretty great TE and as I recall, was pretty consistent every single year.

    What the TE at Maryland (Vernon Davis?) that the 49ers took a couple of years ago? Did he have a solid career or just that one peak year?

  9. noah 08/02/2007 at 1:58 PM #

    One more thing about WR…Holt and Peter Warrick were both exceptional kick returners, so their contributions were of a broader scope than Calvin Johnson.

  10. chris92heel 08/02/2007 at 2:00 PM #

    Noah, I was using chang to illustrate a small point re: stats not being everything. Otherwise we could decide what stats matter and design a computer program that would have a computer spit out the all-decade team (well y’all could – I’m a liberal arts grad).

    IMO, you can’t leave out the offenses players played in and the qb’s they had throwing to them when comparing say, Cotchery and Johnson and Warrick.

  11. MadWolf92 08/02/2007 at 2:14 PM #

    I’d agree with Peter Warrick and Torry Holt. I think I’d go with Calvin over Cotchery, based simply on the fact that he was the most important cog of their offense and the prime target of most DC strategies. It’s a little touchy-feely, I know, but I just never got the impression that people feared Cotchery the way they feared Calvin.

  12. MadWolf92 08/02/2007 at 2:19 PM #

    “In his freshman season, Heath set an ACC record for freshmen TEs with 9 touchdown receptions in a season. He followed that up with a sophomore campaign that saw him set ACC TE records for receptions (70) and yards (835) in a season.”

    “Heath concluded his career holding ACC records for most career receptions (144), yards (1703) and touchdowns (20) by a tight end.”

    (source: Wikipedia. Don’t hold it against me.)

    Heath Miller and Vernon Davis both won the Mackey award in their junior seasons with similar stats, but Miller’s previous two seasons were much better than Davis’.

  13. MadWolf92 08/02/2007 at 2:23 PM #

    chris92heel, I think you *could* have a computer look at all the stats and output an AllWhatever Team. Of course the rub is in what stats you feed in and what weight you give them. If you could normalize receptions, yards, completion percentage, tackles, whatever, to the team, competition and era, then you’d really have something. Until then, you get people doing things with instinct, and it’s hella more fun.

  14. waxhaw 08/02/2007 at 2:24 PM #

    I’m seeing a trend to our list and it has red tinted glasses on.

    JCo is not one of the 2-3 best receivers in the ACC in the last decade. If you are going to argue that this is based on pure individual talent and discount their performance based on the talent around them as you did for Weinke then you have to look at who was throwing the ball to JCo.

  15. chris92heel 08/02/2007 at 2:35 PM #

    “Until then, you get people doing things with instinct, and it’s hella more fun.”

    Agreed man.

    btw, TE is Algernon!

  16. MadWolf92 08/02/2007 at 2:46 PM #

    Alge had somewhere on the order of 75 career receptions and 850 yards receiving. You’ll have to make a really great case for him being *far* and away a better blocker than Miller for him to get the nod, I think.

  17. MadWolf92 08/02/2007 at 2:47 PM #

    He also has a much more spartan Wikipedia page. *Ipso facto*, that makes Miller better, too.

  18. noah 08/02/2007 at 3:01 PM #

    Miller is the obvious choice. But I really…REALLY…don’t want to pick him. So I’m holding out hope that someone will come up with another choice that will supplant him.

    But…Miller is the obvious pick.

    When we move to the OL, can I just say that I think that you ought to pick two tackles, two guards and a center? Obviously, the tackle positions are going to dominate discussions. It’s a far more demanding position, but it does a disservice to ignore the contributions of the other two line positions.

  19. lush 08/02/2007 at 3:12 PM #

    my vote is for the redman brothers. who cares what their accomplishments were, they were freakin hilarious.

  20. lush 08/02/2007 at 3:15 PM #

    i remember them answering questions about the differences between run blocking and pass blocking. one of the responses was something like…

    “pass blockin’s easy, all you gotta do is stand in between your man and the quarterback. any fool can do that. run blocking is the hard part, you gotta move the other SOB out of the way.”

  21. JimValvano 08/02/2007 at 3:18 PM #

    Should we open up the discussion at receiver again *removes his n.c. state red glasses* ???
    I’m a McMullen fan over Calvin Johnson…Johnson was great, he really was, but I just can’t bring myself to pick him.

    Here’s what we’ve got:

    QB—Rivers
    RB—Lamont Jordan
    RB—Thomas Jones
    WR–Peter Warrick
    WR–Torry Holt
    WR–TBD
    TE—(just as reluctantly as noah) Heath Miller
    LT—D’Brickashaw Ferguson???? Any arguments there?

  22. JimValvano 08/02/2007 at 3:29 PM #

    I would like to mention that Jerricho Cotchery had 15 games of over 100 yards receiving.

    Calvin Johnson-5
    Torry Holt-14
    Peter Warrick-14
    Koren Robinson-14
    Kelley Campbell-9
    Billy McMullen-8

  23. noah 08/02/2007 at 3:35 PM #

    “LT—D’Brickashaw Ferguson???? Any arguments there”

    Probably…the three tackles from FSU they mentioned on the team were all great college players.

    Jeff Saturday is my choice at center. I think Leroy Harris ought to be considered for one of the guard spots.

  24. noah 08/02/2007 at 3:35 PM #

    K-Rob was a better college player than Calvin Johnson.

    Yeah, I said it.

  25. noah 08/02/2007 at 3:38 PM #

    As much as I want to pick Ferguson, it’s really tough to not pick Brett Williams and Jason Whitaker. I can live without Alex Barron.

1 2 3 4

Leave a Reply