Southern Pigskin Omits Rivers from All-Decade Team

Alums General NCS Football Rankings & Lists98

Southern Pigskin has attempted to put together an All-ACC football team for the last decade. You can see the team here.

I guess I have to respect them for trying, even if they made a significant whiff on the most important position on the field.

I’m guessing that their ‘rationale’ for putting Chris Weinke on the team ahead of Philip Rivers is based in Weinke’s Heisman Trophy and FSU’s National Championship. BFD. The Heisman is largely a product of playing for such a strong, National Championship team…and is representative of ONE SEASON.

I appreciate the inclusion of Terrance Holt at one of the safety positions…but, I am not sure that Holt is even the best safety at NC State in the last decade, let alone the entire conference.

In a related entry, you can click here for a great look at SFN’s 50-Man All-Amato Team.

We’d love to hear your thoughts.

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Alums General NCS Football Rankings & Lists

98 Responses to Southern Pigskin Omits Rivers from All-Decade Team

  1. lush 08/01/2007 at 3:44 PM #

    who would you say is 2nd behind ted brown at state? tremayne stephens? anthony barbour? we always seem to have great freshman backs who fade over time. if barbour was healthy for 4 years wouldnt he have killed t. brown’s records?

  2. noah 08/01/2007 at 3:54 PM #

    “If barbour was healthy for 4 years wouldnt he have killed t. brown’s records?”

    No.

    Barbour ran for about 1,200 yards as a senior, easily his career high.

    Brown ran for 4,600+ yards in four years. So his seasonal average was more than Barbour’s best year.

    Barbour was never really effectively used his first two years. Sheridan wanted a guy like Toney Baker, an inside the tackles guy who could take on contact and break long runs. AB was strictly an outside runner. He was faster than most and if he got the edge (and was healthy), he could explode. But a stiff breeze could take him down.

    Second best all-time at NC State…I’d be strongly tempted to put Tremain Stephens in that spot.

  3. noah 08/01/2007 at 3:55 PM #

    Ya know, if we go by NFL careers, you’d put Gary Downs in the #2 spot. He played for four or five years as a Giant. I don’t know what the Giants saw in him…he wasn’t ever very productive as a runner at State. But he made the league and had a nice career.

  4. lush 08/01/2007 at 4:18 PM #

    “Brown ran for 4,600+ yards in four years. So his seasonal average was more than Barbour’s best year.”

    is that “Curry Math”

  5. scpackman 08/01/2007 at 4:29 PM #

    The Heisman goes to the best RB or QB out of one of the top 10 teams in the country. It’s the most overhyped award in the universe…basically a popularity contest. It’s so dumb, and it’s the same way we elect a president…oops.

  6. noah 08/01/2007 at 4:31 PM #

    No, it’s a rough approximation.

    I don’t have my media guide here, but as I recall, AB ran for about 2,000 yards his last two years. He ran for 850 and change as a junior and 1,100 and change as a senior.

    So Brown averaged 1,125+ here. AB’s best year was right around 1,100+.

    Like I said, rough approximations.

  7. Pack92 08/01/2007 at 4:32 PM #

    noah, you are dead on about Tremain Stephens. He never had much of a team around him but put some real shows on against Fl. St. and Virginia that I can remember.

    ESPN put Charlie Ward as the best QB to wear #17. However, the clowns did post the email I sent about that.

  8. JimValvano 08/01/2007 at 4:36 PM #

    I don’t have too much trouble going with the two backs that are on there. What was the boy at FSU Travis Minor or someone like that…he sort of reminded me of a poor man’s Warrick Dunn.

    Does anyone have a relevant argument against Thomas Jones or Lamont Jordan as the running backs?

  9. JimValvano 08/01/2007 at 4:40 PM #

    If not I’m more than willing to move on to WR

    QB—Rivers
    RB—Lamont Jordan
    RB—Thomas Jones
    WR–???

  10. JimValvano 08/01/2007 at 4:52 PM #

    I think that noah made a good point earlier about Jerricho Cotchery. He put up HUGE career numbers.

    Others to think about Calvin Johnson, Peter Warrick, Torry Holt, Anquan Bolden, Desmond Clark, Billy McMullen, Kelly Campbell, Jonathan Smith, Derrick Hamilton, Na Brown, or Rod Gardner would be a few.

  11. noah 08/01/2007 at 5:06 PM #

    Peter Warrick, Torry Holt, Kelly Campbell and Jerricho Cotchery all deserve it.

    Campbell and Holt are #1 and #2 in all-time receptions, aren’t they? Or yardage maybe? Cotchery is right up there and Warrick’s career numbers aren’t too far off.

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think those four have seperated themselves from everyone else.

  12. JimValvano 08/01/2007 at 5:17 PM #

    I would agree to an extent…Billy McMullen is top 5 all-time in receiving yards and #2 all-time in receptions. That is pretty darn tough.

    Warrick was definitely the most dynamic and flashy of the bunch. I swear I used to watch him and think he was almost Barry Saunders with his ability to accelerate and change direction, but he was a flop in the NFL.

    If you add McMullen to your list Noah…I’ll be willing to widdle away from there.

  13. JimValvano 08/01/2007 at 5:19 PM #

    I would leave out Calvin Johnson though for sure. Had he played his senior season it might have been different, but I think that a career is a large part of what we are trying to look at.

  14. chris92heel 08/01/2007 at 8:08 PM #

    I’ll take Torry and Calvin and eat up any secondary that comes my way. You have to adjust his stats to the “quarterback” he had.

  15. TNCSU 08/01/2007 at 9:12 PM #

    Agreed – if you’re saying the best players, Calvin is on it. If you’re saying the best careers — maybe not.

  16. SaccoV 08/01/2007 at 9:30 PM #

    The big omission to me was Sam Swank. I know that he’s still active, but I don’t think Janikowski comes close to the clutch kicking of Swank. Tied an NCAA record for 3 50+ yard field goals in one game (against us mind you). He was MVP of the championship game (albeit we all know why). Also, last I checked hasn’t been arrested. A good attribute for a kicker!!!

  17. gumbydammit 08/01/2007 at 10:37 PM #

    Regarding the Rivers vs. Weinke debate: Jay Davis could have won on thtose FSU teams. ‘Nuff said.

  18. ncsu_kappa 08/02/2007 at 12:03 AM #

    Jay Davis absolutely would not have won on those FSU teams. he damn near had one of those teams with the defense and offense we had besides him. Richard Washington, Tramaine Hall, Blackman, T.A. T.J. Williams, Brian Clark, Andre Brown, Toney Baker. What if we only had a qb to put it in the hands of his team mates vs. his opposition

    ^”For the first time in his life, he’s gotten some excellent coaching. (He sure as hell didn’t get it at S. Nash, where they had him playing RB who was scared to get hit.)”
    At Southern Nash High School Julius Peppers was a pretty good athlete. NCHSAA 3A or 2A (can’t remember) Male Athlete of the Year. so I think they wanted him around the ball whenever they could get him there. He was there starting DE, ran the open 400m, did the triple jump, and the long jump, played basketball and did alot of other things that made him a better DE. I don’t think he would complain about his coaching too much sitting where he is sitting.

  19. noah 08/02/2007 at 9:22 AM #

    Julius Peppers was absolutely positively the single greatest natural 17 or 18-year-old athlete that I’ve ever seen in my life. He could have played any sport and excelled at it. Doesn’t mean that he got a lick of coaching at S. Nash.

    He was terrified of getting hit, he cringed everytime someone came near him. He ran upright. He had horrible footwork, despite playing basketball in the low post.

    He never lifted weights until he got to Carolina and even then, it wasn’t until his junior year that Carolina coaches made him seriously commit to weight-training (there were some real horror stories about how horrible a S&C program UNC ran after Jeff Madden left).

    There are guys like Jerry Rice and Steve Largent (and plenty more) who made it to the bigs on brains and guts and working harder than anyone thought was possible. And then there are guys who were so overwhelmingly blessed with talent that you’d think they descended from Mount Olympus.

    Julius Peppers is in the second category…not the first.

  20. noah 08/02/2007 at 9:28 AM #

    “I’ll take Torry and Calvin and eat up any secondary that comes my way.”

    You’re arguing an entirely different case. We’re talking about a three or four year body of work.

    I’d say that the four receivers I mentioned seperated themselves from everyone else. All the other guys on JV’s list (except Na Brown) are close, but I think are a shade below those four. Then you can start a third category and put Na Brown over there.

  21. chris92heel 08/02/2007 at 9:39 AM #

    “You’re arguing an entirely different case. We’re talking about a three or four year body of work.”

    I don’t think I’m arguing an entirely different case at all unless the discussion is ONLY about stats.

  22. noah 08/02/2007 at 10:12 AM #

    What else would it be about?

  23. chris92heel 08/02/2007 at 10:59 AM #

    My point is it has to be something more than just stats. No one thinks Timmy Chang is the best QB in NCAA history right?

  24. LRM 08/02/2007 at 11:05 AM #

    I think this is a good time to link the youtube clip of Adrian Wilson laying out Brandon Russell in the 2000 game in Chapel Hill. That never gets old.

  25. MadWolf92 08/02/2007 at 11:53 AM #

    There’s definitely a case to be made on short-brilliant careers vs. long-very-good careers. Sandy Koufax doesn’t make the Hall of Fame without considering how brilliant he was in a (relatively) short time.

    Me? I take Calvin. And Koufax.

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