Recruiting’s dirty game / NCS + TOB + CTC Comments (Updated 11:20am)

With the Spring Football game approaching this weekend and with NC State’s football recruiting evolving into a very different dynamic under Tom O’Brien than we had under Chuck Amato, we thought that we would share some interesting insight from a former college football coach.

(Tip of the hat to Dave Sez for linking this up a couple of months ago. We saved it for a slow period like today).

As we walked back out onto the front porch, before I said goodbye, I turned to his mom one last time, hugged her neck and reminded her how much I loved her. Then, with all the sincerity I could muster, I looked that young man directly in the eyes and said, “I have never told anybody this before, but you’re gonna win three Heisman trophies at Auburn. You’d win four, but you’re gonna be in the NFL by then.”

As I turned to leave, a long black, stretch limousine pulled up in front of the house. A little, short driver with one of those driver’s caps and half-jackets on got out, walked all the way around the back of the limousine and opened the back door next to the curb.

Out stepped my ol’ man.

He had scheduled his official visit for 7:30 p.m. on the same night.

As he waddled up that sidewalk wearing that silly-looking safari hat and those red/yellow/green sunglasses that he always wears, my eyes got as big as saucers and my jaw dropped.

My ol’ man stepped up on the porch, said hello to that mama, shook Martavius’ hand, turned to me, patted me on the head (in front of both of them) and said, “Terry, when you get home, your mama wants you to call her.”

That’s all he said!

You talk about dirty recruiting – it doesn’t get any dirtier. Nobody has ever been “who’s your daddy-ed” worse than that.

Post Script:
In our comments section below this entry one of our readers asked the following: “SFN – What do you mean by a different dynamic under TOB? I know they’ll recruit differently, but I’d be interested in your thoughts – other than the obvious – the South FL pipeline.”

Great question!

From the outside – (as we are not intimately involved with following the small details of recruiting anymore) – we are observing a huge shift in the quantity and the nature of the universe of potential high school recruiting targets.

A few differences from CTC’s recruiting that we have observed since TOB’s arrival:

(1) Geographic expanions and dispersion – Suddenly, TOB’s (and staff’s) national network of contacts is producing contacts all over the country in markets where we have recently had no presence?

Since when does NC State recruit any football player from the state of Illinois? Targets from New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania and other markets are popping up all over the place. There can be nothing but positives that come from enlarging the number of recruits in a potential talent pool.

And…it makes great sense. Why would a fantastic ACC experience in the nation’s #1 area to live and do business with mild winters and fantastic seasons NOT be appealing to some kids from the miserable northeast and midwest? TOB can speak from first hand experience about CHOOSING to make the move to the Triangle from other spots.

(2) Targeted recruiting philosophy – Gone are the days where we will take a dozen “athletes” who can basically play defensive back or not play at all. It will be surprising to me if our program ‘wakes up’ one year and suddenly realizes that don’t have a capable quarterback on the roster. Or enough offensive linemen smart enough to remember the plays. Or three linebackers who are serviecable.

Even IF such a situation were to present itself, TOB’s network of contacts (point #1) and ability to find undervalued talent (point #3)

(3) Undervalued talent – Recruiting ‘expert’, Tom Lemming recently rated Tom O’Brien and staff as the best evaluators of hidden talent in America. Couple this with the staff’s large network of contacts and it is obvious that the Wolfpack’s program should be able to fill targeted needs relatively efficiently.

Need a punter? Presto! Sign a top JUCO punter from California.

NC State’s recruiting ‘rankings’ may fall a bit from CTC’s best classes because we probably won’t be over-recruiting some of the positions that usually garner more “stars”. But, I expect the ‘return on investment’ generated by the performance of the kids that we sign will rise significantly as we will have more targeted talent that can actually play the positions needed on the field.

(4) Kids who mention academics – We all get our internet recruiting information from the same two sources: The Wolfpacker and Pack Pride. Sometimes the features on of the recruiting targets contain valuable information; sometimes they do not.

Recently, however, I have noticed A LOT more comments from recruits that resemble the following: “The first thing that Coach O’Brien/staff mentioned to me was academics” or “Academics are very important to me”.

This is a change.

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34 Responses to Recruiting’s dirty game / NCS + TOB + CTC Comments (Updated 11:20am)

  1. STLPACK 04/12/2007 at 9:26 AM #

    CLASSIC!!! What a great story!

  2. Buck 04/12/2007 at 9:40 AM #

    Yes, and told like a true chip off the old block.

  3. choppack1 04/12/2007 at 9:44 AM #

    SFN – What do you mean by a different dynamic under TOB? I know they’ll recruit differently, but I’d be interested in your thoughts – other than the obvious – the South FL pipeline.

  4. ncsu96 04/12/2007 at 9:47 AM #

    nothing like undermining you own son……woo hoo!

  5. BoKnowsNCS71 04/12/2007 at 9:56 AM #

    TOB has got a Safari hat now?????

  6. redfred2 04/12/2007 at 9:58 AM #

    That’s funny stuff! I loved Terry’s description of his old man.

  7. Buddygreen 04/12/2007 at 10:03 AM #

    Dag gum it! That’s a great story!

  8. StateFans 04/12/2007 at 10:44 AM #

    choppack — I’ve updated the entry to address your comments. Hope that helps. Thanks!

  9. packbackr04 04/12/2007 at 11:04 AM #

    any word on Tracy Smith SFN???

    btw- great update, i was wandering what you meantabout the dynamics, and i had honestly looked at some of the “stars” or rankings of some of our targets and was getting a little concerned that no big names are on the maps for us.. this makes me feel much better… if we can get some role players. there is enough takent at the skill positions this year for us to have some success…. QB is still a BIG ? mark

  10. RedTerror29 04/12/2007 at 11:09 AM #

    ^Scout hasn’t updated their rankings for football yet, so ignore the stars. We are in lead/top 3 for the top 2 in the state though.

  11. McPete 04/12/2007 at 11:17 AM #

    Just taking a quick glance at who TOB’s staff is going after for 2008, and it’s an impressive list. If they get their fair share of the guys they have and will offer, it’ll be a top 25 recruiting class. they are going after 3 or 4 national top 100 kids. they seem to be going after all the top kids in NC, and some (like Maddox (LB prospect) and M. Brown (RB)) have NC State at the top of their list. it’s a little early to get too excited, but i am anyway. and the LBs coach McCulloch has Georgia and Florida (northern and central) ties and we’ll be getting kids from those two states as well.

  12. choppack1 04/12/2007 at 11:19 AM #

    Thanks SFN – that’s good info.

    I think probably the biggest difference we’ll see is in OL recruiting. Chuck, Inc. really seemed to go after talent at the expense of, let’s just be nice and say football IQ.

    The OL is one of the few places where you can make a great football player if they are a certain height, weight and decent speed…It’s a simpler way of stating that you can be a good OL if 6-0 feet or 6-6, if you’re 290 or 320, if you run a 5.0 forty or if you run a 5.3 forty…Basically, IMHO, the key ingredient to good OLs are discipline, work ethic and intelligence in addition to the physical attributes. Chuck liked recruiting the monster linemen. Unfortunately, sometimes these guys were too slow and lacked discipline. I expect that to change.

    As far as QBs – I don’t think that Chuck failed to recruit good QBs – I think his staff simply failed to develop. Davis, Stone, Burke and even Evans all had the physical and mental attributes to play QB…IMHO, for whatever reason, they were just unprepared for the various looks they’d get during a game…and after a game or two, their decision-making seemed to go in the crapper. We always had decent rated QBs, they just didn’t play that way….Not so coincidentally, a lot of other schools have this problem right now as well – FSU, Miami, and UNC-Ch have all been plagued by this bugaboo – BC hasn’t really.

    I expect this staff to give a QB a game plan he can understand and be able to move the ball.

  13. branjawn 04/12/2007 at 11:30 AM #

    Our running backs have seemed to be disproportionately better than our running game in recent years. I’m guessing that would lend itself to the poor judgment in OL recruiting, and offensive coaching in general?

  14. branjawn 04/12/2007 at 11:32 AM #

    I probably should have said, “disproportionately better ON PAPER than our running game,” to clarify.

  15. Pack92 04/12/2007 at 11:39 AM #

    SFN, what an awesome story! I’ve also noticed the new recruit input coming from the midwest. Go look at Ohio St. and Michigan. Their OL’s come from that area almost exclusively and the population density would lead one to believe not all of those guys can go to the above mentioned schools – or even want to. Those can be some COLD late season games in the Big 10.
    ^choppack1, could not agree more. Shane Montgomery, Terry Harvey and Geoff Bender were all (I think PA?) from up north and probably not heavily recruited by the Big 10. However, they ALL made good QB’s in different ways playing in the right system. And Geoff Bender had one of the most live fastballs I’ve ever seen. Smarts are the key but you stilll have to develop the guy.

  16. ncsu96 04/12/2007 at 12:00 PM #

    it always kills me that recruiting gurus call QB/WR/RB and DBs the ‘skill’ players. A good OL or DL is more than just power and size, there is plenty of skill and technique to those positions.

  17. for2n8son 04/12/2007 at 12:02 PM #

    My biggest “yahoo” has come from TOB’s recruiting OL. No matter how good your backs are, and we have some good ones, NO HOLE=NO GAIN and NO RUNNING GAME=INEFFECTIVE PASSING GAME. I think our OL has been our achilles’ heel all along.

  18. McPete 04/12/2007 at 12:50 PM #

    i think the previous admin. had a big problem developing the OL’s as much as anything. does anyone think pat meyer is really an OL coach? TOB’s staff will teach the guys how to play the position in addition to recruiting the guys they think can suceed. but don’t shortchange the staff’s ability to land blue chip athletes. that’s who they are going after at all positions. highly regarded recruits that all the big south east colleges want.

  19. Texpack 04/12/2007 at 12:58 PM #

    Earle Edwards and Bo Rein both recruited Ohio an Pa. heavily. The recruiting exposure was the main reason for the Penn State series continuing for the many years it did. I work for a Gator, who has told me for years that if we took the FSU approach, our roster would be full of criminals. He is obviously a bit prejudiced in his perspective, but the lack of discipline in recent years does lend some credibility to his opinion.

  20. Buddygreen 04/12/2007 at 1:01 PM #

    Great update. I didn’t take different dynamic to be a negative. As TOB said you don’t go to Florida to find offensive lineman. A postition we have been extremely weak at in recent years. I really feel better with the expanded national recruiting network. TOB has certainly developed a great network amoung catholic schools and I am very impressed with his quickness in rebuilding and developing the relationship with NC high school coaches. His getting former coaches and players involved is a great move. I hear they are expecting over 200 to 250 former players at the spring game and the reception afterwards. I am going to try and make it also, I hope everyone attempts to be there. I hear UNX has so few players they are not doing the usual game.

  21. noah 04/12/2007 at 1:08 PM #

    Terry Harvey was from Georgia, BTW.

  22. Pack92 04/12/2007 at 2:50 PM #

    Ha! Thanks noah! I knew one of those guys was NOT from PA. Bender might not have been either but I think he was from a northern state and Shane was from PA.

  23. basshole8117 04/12/2007 at 4:00 PM #

    Thanks to my pals on NCDUCKS.com for this link.
    I don’t know if anybody has seen this or not but if Chuck rolls up to a recruits house in these shades I don’t know how they can choose FSU. FLAMMING!! http://floridastate.rivals.com/photofeature.asp?SID=1061&fid=16605

    check out picture 11 and 12.
    I tried to post as a new subject but could not.

  24. class of 74 04/12/2007 at 4:22 PM #

    If I remember correctly Terry Harvey was from Florida not Georgia. I believe somewhere around the Tampa area.

  25. noah 04/12/2007 at 4:22 PM #

    Shane Montgomery is from Ohio. Geoff Bender is from a suburb of Pittsburgh. He played at Penn Hills High School, I think.

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