VPI Tragedy Entry (6:23pm Update)

6:23pm (the reference frame blog) – Supposed student account with SPECULATION of the gunman’s identity.

6:15 pm (AP) — List of deadliest campus shootings.

5:30pm (SFN) — Press conference just ended in Blacksburg. There was a student reporter from “15 minutes down the road” that you could identify as an amateur a mile way. The kid should not be allowed back to the 7:30pm briefing; he was horrible and embarassed himself beyond reproach.

5:20pm (BBC) — Eyewitness emails.

5:20 pm (Michelle Malkin) — You can also see an eyewitness email here. It is pretty amazing. The author calls the response from authorities “exemplary”.

5:15pm (ABC) — ABC News is running a fascinatingly perverted poll asking if the shooting is grounds for more gun control? I don’t understand this at all. Guns are already banned at Virginia Tech. They are ‘illegal’ in Norris Hall (where the murders occured). How is the solution to defend yourself against a deranged murderer who doesn’t care about ANY laws to tighten restrictions to keep guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens? (For the record, I have never owned a gun.)

^ This was pretty easy to call. Many pundits were predicting it almost immediately. The following comments were interesting.

As the initial shock wears off you can bet that the anti-Second Amendment people wall be coming out of the woodwork. By the time the evening network newscasts hit we will have no shortage of spokesmen for various anti-gun groups stepping forth to issue their tired call for an end to the private ownership of handguns.

…earlier this year the Virginia General Assembly failed to act on House Bill 1572. This bill would have allowed college students and employees to carry handguns on campus — with appropriate permits, of course. It died in subcommittee. Larry Hincker, a spokesman for Virginia Tech, the site of today’s carnage, said “I’m sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly’s actions because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus.”

How’s today for safety?

If it had been legal for students, employees or faculty members with permits to carry guns on the campus, is it at all possible that there might be some students alive today who didn’t make it through the carnage? Do you think the actions of the Virginia General Assembly stopped the gunman from getting his guns and carrying them to the campus?

This is undoubtedly the worst school shooting, high school, college or otherwise, in the history of our country. There are some facts, however, about some of these school shootings of which you probably are not aware. Do you know, for instance, that at least three shootings in high schools were stopped by civilians with guns? Civilians, not law enforcement. In one case a civilian was traveling past a school when he saw children running from the building. One told him that there was a student inside shooting people. The civilian pulled his gun, ran in side, and confronted the student. The student put down the gun and surrendered. In another case a high school vice-principal heard that there was a student in the hallways with a gun. He sprinted a half-mile to his car. He had a gun in his car so he had to park off campus. He then sprinted back with the gun to confront the student. Lives saved.

The point here is that you are never ever going to get the guns out of the hands of those who want to use them for carnage. Never. Gun control programs will only succeed in getting the guns out of the hands of people who want them and need them for self-defense. Never, in the history of America’s gun control movement, has anyone set forth a viable program to get the guns out of the hands of those who would use them to commit crimes. Similarly, the gun control movement will never give any fair coverage at all to the people who use guns to save their own lives, or the lives of others.

Perhaps it is prudent to recall some history related to today’s situation.

Late Afternoon (ABC) — 33 people confirmed dead. ABC News has some of “the first pictures” from the tragedy available here.

1:20 pm (ABC) — At 1:20pm ABCNews reported at least 32 fatalities with the number expected to rise.

Police at Virginia Tech say that the shootings happened at a dormitory and a classroom on opposite sides of the university campus in Blacksburg, Va.

Virginia Tech Police Chief Wendell Flinchum said that one person was killed in the first shooting, just after 7 a.m. at West Ambler Johnston Hall, a large dormitory. Flinchum said that at least 20 more people were killed in a later shooting at Norris Hall, an academic building.

(CNN) — The Virginia Tech police chief said at least 20 people were killed in twin shootings on the Blacksburg campus Monday morning. “Some victims were shot in a classroom,” Chief Wendell Flinchum said, adding that the gunman was dead.

(SFN) — Our prayers are with any and everyone with any connection to Blacksburg and VPI.

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111 Responses to VPI Tragedy Entry (6:23pm Update)

  1. coppertop 04/16/2007 at 4:16 PM #

    “More people die every year from a fall (17,229) than by assault with a firearm (11,920).”

    I am sure those 11, 920 wish they could have prevented from being shot where as your 17229 deaths from falls probably were accidents.

  2. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 04/16/2007 at 4:17 PM #

    Watching the press conference it appears VT has a lot of ‘splain’n to do after not taking more significant action after the first shooting. Does it seem odd to anyone else that you have a murder on campus in the morning and the shooter hasn’t been caught and you go ahead with classes as usual?

  3. noah 04/16/2007 at 4:19 PM #

    Sounds like a serious breakdown in campus communications.

    Didn’t VPI shutdown recently when they had an escaped prisoner on their campus?

  4. branjawn 04/16/2007 at 4:19 PM #

    Yeah, the police chief is getting grilled. The fallout from this is going to get messy I’m afraid.

  5. cpwolfpackfan 04/16/2007 at 4:33 PM #

    thoughts and prayers go out to all assoicated with VT

  6. mroli 04/16/2007 at 4:52 PM #

    “More people die every year from a fall (17,229) than by assault with a firearm (11,920).

    I am sure those 11, 920 wish they could have prevented from being shot where as your 17229 deaths from falls probably were accidents.”

    and i’m sure when someone falls they don’t take 32 other people with them.

    what a sad day.

  7. StateFans 04/16/2007 at 5:07 PM #

    ^ The only way to prevent being shot is to be able to shoot the person who is getting ready to shoot you. If someone is so f*ed up that they want to take another person’s life…a piece of paper isn’t going to stop them.

    IIRC, murder is against the law. How was that restriction and impairment to the nut job today?

  8. Texpack 04/16/2007 at 5:23 PM #

    This just makes you sick. You just have to pray for all of the families hit by this.

  9. redfred2 04/16/2007 at 5:24 PM #

    I guess really about all we can do in this ruthless and senseless case of pure violence is to say, GOD BLESS the parents, relatives, and friends of all of those innocent victims, and just hope and pray that nothing similar ever happens to any of our own. It doesn’t seem that the perverted laws laws of the land leave much else to otherwise prevent or protect us from it anymore.

  10. branjawn 04/16/2007 at 5:55 PM #

    I think highonlowe summed it up best: “Our individual problems seem small when in comparison to this tragedy.” True indeed.

  11. branjawn 04/16/2007 at 6:02 PM #

    Not that athletes are more important, but since this is a sports forum I thought it appropriate to add this:
    “Greenberg said his daughter Paige, a freshman, was in the dorm next to the one where the gunman shot his first victims, ESPN said. But she quickly left and went to a friend’s house off-campus.” link
    And all of the BB team has been accounted for link

  12. kbstokes09 04/16/2007 at 6:14 PM #

    I am getting sick and tired with the media trying to place some of the blame on the President of VT and the Police Chief. As a student at State, I understand how hard it would have to be to get the word out to 26,000 of us, let alone the 30,000 that go to school here. They probably had no reason to believe that a massacre would follow an isolated incident, and I believe that they did everything they possibly could given what knowledge they had. I hope we at State do something for the students/faculty/parents there.

  13. StateFans 04/16/2007 at 6:32 PM #

    ^ Couldn’t agree more.

  14. bTHEredterror 04/16/2007 at 6:45 PM #

    I agree stokes, one dedicated psycho can do untold damage in the few minutes that law enforcement needs to respond.

    RE-More people die every year from a fall (17,229) than by assault with a firearm (11,920).

    Statistics on highest deaths via shooting per capita:
    Here are gun-related deaths per 100,000 people in the world’s 36 richest countries in 1994: United States 14.24; Brazil 12.95; Mexico 12.69; Estonia 12.26; Argentina 8.93; Northern Ireland 6.63; Finland 6.46; Switzerland 5.31; France 5.15; Canada 4.31; Norway 3.82; Austria 3.70; Portugal 3.20; Israel 2.91; Belgium 2.90; Australia 2.65; Slovenia 2.60; Italy 2.44; New Zealand 2.38; Denmark 2.09; Sweden 1.92; Kuwait 1.84; Greece 1.29; Germany 1.24; Hungary 1.11; Republic of Ireland 0.97; Spain 0.78; Netherlands 0.70; Scotland 0.54; England and Wales 0.41; Taiwan 0.37; Singapore 0.21; Mauritius 0.19; Hong Kong 0.14; South Korea 0.12; Japan 0.05.
    Note countries with oppressive gun control like UK, Singapore, and Japan rate lower. Simple reason, when less handguns are available legally, it is harder for those who want to use them illegally to find. The argument that taking them away from law-abiding citizens won’t solve the problem is foolish to me. It limits the number guns available due to burglary, kids raiding their parents legally acqured firearms, and dealer irresponsibilty. It might not eliminate gun crimes, but it would seriously impair attacks like todays.

    Having said this, I’m in favor of the second amendment because the right to bear arms in defense of home and country is significant to our nation’s freedom. Though the threat of invasion seems small now, in comparison to the risk of dying in a handgun crime, if it ever comes down to it we would be a difficult populace to subdue. And I like the thought of that at all times not immedately following a horrible tragedy.

  15. branjawn 04/16/2007 at 7:16 PM #

    In 1976, Washington, D.C., enacted one of the most restrictive gun control laws in the nation. Since then, the city’s murder rate has risen 134 percent while the national murder rate has dropped 2 %.

  16. branjawn 04/16/2007 at 7:30 PM #

    bTHEred, gun control as you speak of didn’t start in the UK until 1997, so your stats from 1994 aren’t even relevant. This from the BBC: “A new study suggests the use of handguns in crime rose by 40% in the two years after the weapons were banned.” link

  17. redfred2 04/16/2007 at 8:23 PM #

    I said this before on here, can’t remember what it was in reference to, but it used to be that every 10 or 12 year old kid was taught and expected to know how to use the loaded gun that was there for a reason in every home. They saw it’s power, were taught to respected it very early in life, and knew what it intended for, and they didn’t take it to school to kill innocent people. Nowadays many parents would never let their children get anywhere close to a real gun, much less teach them the need to respect one. But, those same do gooder parents think it’s cool and will let their very young children watch movies that they definitely shouldn’t be watching, let them hold the simulated hand gun on realistic and violent video games ALL DAY LONG, where people get blown to pieces over and over again, and all in the name of fun. I find it hard to believe that we as adults, as well as our children, are that much more stupid than our ancestors were back at the turn of the century, but you couldn’t convince anyone by looking at the numbers.

  18. bTHEredterror 04/16/2007 at 9:01 PM #

    Though the total ban occured in 1997, it was gradual process beginning in 1980’s, and culminating with…..a school shooting resulting in 16 deaths in late 1996. Other than some cowardly attacks on Sheep in the country, there have been no mass shootings there since. Australia enacted similar tough laws and have had no mass shootings since doing so either.

    Listen I know about the comparison between States such as Switzerland where the laws are liberal and Mexico, where they are essentially Orwellian. Mexico has obscene murder rates where Switzerland is more modest.

    It is also fair to note that Interpol Weapons and Explosives Tracking System (IWETS) sites terrorist gun tracking to states with liberal gun laws, even estimating that 1 in 10 illegal weapons trafficked in the world comes from Florida!

    How many stories can you pull up where a responsible gun owner thwarted an attack? I’ve had a gun pulled on me, it’s no fun, and unless you are lucky enough to be attacked by a dumb criminal, there is little or no opportunity to react. Reaching for your permitted weapon may give you a chance to shoot back after you get shot for reaching, but little more.

    http://www.youthandviolence.com/International%20Gun%20Laws.html

  19. bTHEredterror 04/16/2007 at 9:20 PM #

    Your point is well made, and points to the real problem redfred2, a general lack of appreciation for life itself, and specifically the lives of others. This bastard took 32 lives, and is to craven to face the music so he killed himself.

  20. branjawn 04/16/2007 at 10:11 PM #

    “Other than some cowardly attacks on Sheep in the country, there have been no mass shootings there since.”

    So the fact that “the use of handguns in crime rose by 40% in the two years after the weapons were banned” is ok b/c there were no mass killings (assuming you are right, I couldn’t find any evidence one way or the other online). OK…

    Before the 1997 ban in the UK, handguns were only held by 0.1% of the population anyways. Since 1998 number of people injured by firearms in England and Wales has more than doubled from 2,378 in 1998/99 to 4,001 in 2005/06.

    Statistics can prove any point we want to make. I think this is a debate that must take place ideologically. Unless you can wave a magic wand and make all guns disappear (if that would be good or not is another argument altogether), you have to accept the reality that guns exist, and that the criminals will always have them. Thus my POV that I as a law abiding citizen with no criminal past should be able to carry a firearm for self defense purposes freely. Yet it seems that the places I am banned from having them, are the places where I need it the most. Seriously, I think there’s a better chance of my encountering a criminal aggressor at a bank, school, atm, rather than sitting here in my living room (which is about the only place I can have my gun).

  21. branjawn 04/16/2007 at 10:20 PM #

    kbstokes09: “I am getting sick and tired with the media trying to place some of the blame on the President of VT and the Police Chief.”

    article: At a press conference, Steger said authorities believed that the shooting at the dorm was a domestic dispute and mistakenly thought the gunman had fled the campus and defended the university’s handling of the tragedy.”We had no reason to suspect any other incident was going to occur,” Steger said. “We can only make decisions based on the information you had on the time. You don’t have hours to reflect on it.”

    Thought the gunman had fled the campus? What, did they shake a magic 8-ball? Based on what evidence? And I love this line “You don’t have hours to reflect on it”, ummm, yes you did! A gunman ON CAMPUS, you don’t know where he is. So you assume he left campus. What a very costly assumption.

  22. branjawn 04/16/2007 at 10:26 PM #

    bTHEred: “How many stories can you pull up where a responsible gun owner thwarted an attack?”

    UCLA professor emeritus James Q. Wilson, a respected expert on crime, police practices and guns, says, “We know from Census Bureau surveys that something beyond a hundred thousand uses of guns for self-defense occur every year. We know from smaller surveys of a commercial nature that the number may be as high as 2-and-a-half or 3 million. We don’t know what the right number is, but whatever the right number is, it’s not a trivial number.”
    The Department of Justice’s own National Institute of Justice study estimated that 1.5 million Americans use guns for defensive purposes every year.
    Americans, in part due to mainstream media’s anti-gun bias, dramatically underestimate the defensive uses of guns. Some, after using a gun for self-defense, fear that the police may charge them for violating some law or ordinance about firearm possession and use. So many Americans simply do not tell the authorities. link

    A gun attack creates news. A man who spared his family by brandishing a handgun, well, that’s just water-cooler chat.

  23. bTHEredterror 04/16/2007 at 10:29 PM #

    Your last point is the one I intended to make, branjawn. You can’t carry it where your going to need it, like in the shopping mall parking lot after you are on the way out. Most of the shootings are between hostile parties anyway, as the highest rates are in the highest gang populated areas.

    Bottom line as today proves, where human beings are concerned you are never safe. Which is why I believe in the 2nd amendment, if anyone anywhere has a gun, I have a right to own one too. Even though I disagree with your rationale, I agree with your sentiment.

  24. bTHEredterror 04/16/2007 at 10:40 PM #

    It is easy to say “it happens all the time and goes unreported”, and census bureau surveys? Check this out before you consider them a reliable source.

    http://checkpointusa.org/Census/Census.htm

  25. WolftownVA81 04/17/2007 at 8:11 AM #

    This is a terrible tragedy that will affect many people. We weren’t able to learn that our son was safe until noon yesterday. Our son’s roommate’s girl friend had her head grazed by a bullet while hidding under her desk. She was only slightly injured but her professor and several others in her class were killed. The first girl shot in the dorm was from a neighboring County and was in the same school as my son. All these kids will be scared for a long time. My wife and I were at a scolarship awards banquent this past Friday night. At the end of the dinner, I was telling her what a great school atomosphere they had at Tech and how all 34 kids that got recognition were so close to one another. They are like family on that campus. I hope most can stay in Blacksburg to grieve together to get through this. They will need to depend on each other now. Appreciate all the thoughts and prayers of everyone on this site. We were the lucky parents. 33 parents have had their world turned upside down.

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