Herb Probably Got this Guy Fired

Poor Ben Braun. There may be one coach in all of college basketball whose personality is less vibrant than Braun’s; but that one coach may the one who ultimately gets the California Head Coach fired.

Braun

Check out this link that discusses Cal’s 41-42 loss this weekend to (previously) 1-14 Arizona State. You read that correctly. 41-42. In a college basketball game. In a major conference, In 2007. With the shot clock. And three point line.

After losing to Arizona State 42-41 Saturday, Cal is the No. 8 seed in the Pac-10 Tournament and will likely need to win three games just to make the NIT. Those mere 41 points, yep, lowest output since 1988. Hell, the football team put up more than that on multiple occasions.

The Bears have lost 10 of 12 and that man pictured? Yeah, Ben Braun’s chair might be getting warm. He has one of the longer tenures in the Pac-10, but he really hasn’t done much at Cal, and while injuries have decimated the Bears this year, to lose to Arizona State at home?! Friggin’ Arizona State?!

In fact, the ‘big’ ASU win moved the Sun Devils out of the cellar of one guy’s power ratings.

If you remember, Herb Sendek’s NC State Wolfpack eliminated the Cal Bears from the first round of last year’s NCAA Tournament. For some fun, you can review the entry from last year’s NC State win.

Herb

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General NCS Basketball

128 Responses to Herb Probably Got this Guy Fired

  1. cedarblockhead 03/06/2007 at 3:12 PM #

    “please explain exactly why herb couldnt keep talented players, or is that not his responsibility”

    Hebr was the bestest coach ever. If players are not smart enough or inelligent enough to know what is good for them. Is that his fault?

  2. CedarGroveWolf 03/06/2007 at 3:13 PM #

    I’m going to let it go before I get banned. It’s like trying to argue with a 5 yr old anyway.

  3. cedarblockhead 03/06/2007 at 3:13 PM #

    “He does lush, but it was only the good stuff, like the five incredible NCAA runs.”

    Which should be referred to as the “GREATEST FIVE YEAR SRETCH IN NCSU HISTORY”. Who else has mastered basketball like the genius that is Herb Sendek?

  4. CedarGroveWolf 03/06/2007 at 3:13 PM #

    blockhead, get a life

  5. cedarblockhead 03/06/2007 at 3:14 PM #

    “oops there i go again assuming that the HEAD COACH has something to do with the direction of the basketball team.”

    The head coach can only lead. If his players are incapable of following his brilliance then how can that be his fault?

  6. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 03/06/2007 at 3:14 PM #

    In fairness to Les his last team lost 10 games by 5 points or less. I didn’t go to those games but I remember game after game a last second shot rolling off for State or other teams hitting shots at the end. I think February was brutal before ending the year with a two point loss to WF at the beginning of March.

    That last team wasn’t awful they just couldn’t ‘turn the corner’ as Les and Herb Sendek, who led NC State to five consecutive NCAA tournaments, where so fond of saying.

  7. Mike 03/06/2007 at 3:28 PM #

    You know, I have enjoyed reading this, just as I always enjoyed reading the “battles” between th HSSS and others. I think today I finally figured it out.

    It’s not that I dislike Herb – I just cant stand the fact that the HSSS would ever think there was a better solution out there. I think my opinios to the HSSS actually made my dislike for the man himself grow.

    So my dear apologies to Herb and his family. I never said anything disparaging to him or his family, nor did I ever say anything off base negative. I am thrilled Sid is here and I am thrilled Herb is there. Yes, I have been rooting to see ASU do poorly, not for Herb, but mostly for the HSSS. My apologies to Herb and family.

  8. cedarblockhead 03/06/2007 at 3:29 PM #

    CedarGroveWolf Says:

    March 6th, 2007 at 3:13 pm
    blockhead, get a life

    Oh the irony

  9. redfred2 03/06/2007 at 3:31 PM #

    please explain exactly why herb couldnt keep talented players

    Irregardless of seeing the success to which we all aspire, and that was taking place all around him just like it always has in the ACC, he never veered from his stubborn decision to change the face of Wolfpack basketball, and in the meantime he missed out on all of the advantages that could have very easily made him much more successful in Raleigh.

    It’s really pretty simple. It was cold, hard Xs and 0’s all the way, Herb had a system, he wasn’t about building a “program” or an atmosphere that anyone could become a part of.

  10. CedarGroveWolf 03/06/2007 at 3:38 PM #

    ^ I guess everyone has their opinion

  11. BoKnowsNCS71 03/06/2007 at 3:38 PM #

    Thinking about this old saying: “He left things in better condition at his departure than (he inherited) when he arrived.”

    Which NCS coach(es) inherited better BB talent from his predecessor than he left for the next coach?

    If someone truly built up our program during his tenure then it should be in better shape when he leaves. If he leaves us in worse shape then what does that tell us?

    I’m not sure of the answer but it is thought provoking. .

  12. lush 03/06/2007 at 3:42 PM #

    just because your incapable of convincing anyone to agree with your moronic lovefest with herbie bird doesnt mean that “It’s like trying to argue with a 5 yr old”

    a five year old pouts and whines untill he knows he’s wrong, then shuts up and go’s home

    see ya later

  13. redfred2 03/06/2007 at 3:46 PM #

    “I guess everyone has their opinion”

    That’s good. Can I use that statement sometime?

    Cedar, you’re more than welcome to debunk what I said up there.

  14. cedarblockhead 03/06/2007 at 3:57 PM #

    I will certainly debunk that hogwash. I have read smarter tripe on the bathroom stall. You can make fun of the “system” all you want but it lead us to the greatest NCAA stretch run in our history (FACT). The system was not the problem, the problem was all them fellas that couldn’t run it properly. They just were not able to absorb the brilliance that is the Princeton offense. Is that the coach’s fault? What is a coach supposed to do other than to incorporate the greatest strategy devised in the past half a century.

  15. redfred2 03/06/2007 at 4:04 PM #

    Well now, that certainly stirred up the nest.

    “the problem was all them fellas that couldn’t run it properly.”

    Oh, you mean those recruits that you were so proud of earlier. I gotcha now.

    And no, it is definitely not any coach’s job to give his players an offense that they can actually understand. I’m with ya on that too.

  16. redfred2 03/06/2007 at 4:09 PM #

    cedar”blockhead”

    You slipped that one in on me.

  17. CedarGroveWolf 03/06/2007 at 4:12 PM #

    Rick, I tried to leave it alone, but keep getting called out.

    “If someone truly built up our program during his tenure then it should be in better shape when he leaves.”

    It is.

    “just because your incapable of convincing anyone”

    um ,not trying to do any such thing. you make a statement that Herb ran off his players then can’t back it up. I disagreed that Sid came into a worse situation than Herb did. Then the bashers came out in droves.

    “Cedar, you’re more than welcome to debunk what I said up there.”

    all I see is bunk. Herb difinately was building a program. If you can’t see that then it tells me all I need to know. I think Herb could have done some things differently, but also had some bad luck with some of his recruits that would have helped his program.

    cedarbutthead – let it go

  18. cedarblockhead 03/06/2007 at 4:23 PM #

    Preach on brutha.
    It was all bad luck.

    If the luck had been good
    then we’d still be choppin’ wood

    If the players could’ve hit a shot
    Then we’d love Herb a whole lot

    If the players could have learned to shoot
    Herb would still be making NCSU loot

  19. Gene 03/06/2007 at 4:26 PM #

    HSSS

    I believe this is a term SFN used to describe Sendek supporters. As someone, who thinks Herb is a good coach and had a positive impact on our basketball program (yes THE PROGRAM as a whole, benefited from the stability he brought in, with regards to no off-the-court problems, other than Thornton, good graduation rates, winning more than he lost etc.), the reason Sendek supporters have been vocal is the sometimes over-the-top criticism he has received from NCSU fans.

    I wish Herb was more successful, and I’m glad we have a new coach, since Herb did not get us where any fans – Herb supporter or not – wanted us to be.

    Don’t underestimate the importance of how “quiet” the program was off-the-court, under Herb. A quote regarding Javi’s recruitment from his dad: “”Today, we met the academic advisors and took a tour of the training facilities,” Eddie Gonzalez said. “”Ägain, everything was first rate.”. Our “academic advisors….[are] first rate”. I don’t think this is something, which could’ve been said 15-20 years ago, and I think this is needed to build a consistent contender.

    Herb won enough to make us somewhat relevant again, while maintaining a positive image for the university. As much as people talk about wins, when they mention Case, Sloan and Valvano, you also have to note all three had the program subjected to NCAA investigations. Whether or not we should’ve been investigated is not the point, the fact is we have had investigations in the 1950’s, with the recruitment of Moreland, the 1960’s with point shaving (though this was not Case’s fault), in the 1970’s, with the recruitment of Thompson (though Duke got busted for ticky-tack stuff as well in his recruitment), and in the 1980’s with the mess at the end of the Valvano era.

    Having a clean image, “first rate” academic support for our basketball players, and no NCAA investigations, and subsequent penalties, in 17 years is important, if we want to become a consistent contender.

    Whatever you want to say about the recruits Herb brought in, drove off, failed to develop, and anything else, be glad he didn’t sell out to just get wins. Most of the kids he brought in did well in the class room and graduated. He brought some much needed stability to the program, which has helped Lowe & Co.’s recruitment efforts, in my opinion.

  20. CedarGroveWolf 03/06/2007 at 4:29 PM #

    got to go, actually have a life. bash away ….

  21. redfred2 03/06/2007 at 4:31 PM #

    How do the words like “bad luck,” versus say, bad decision making, always enter the picture in you estimation? If it was just “bad luck” everytime something went wrong, wasn’t he just equally lucky when something good happened?

    Nah, the good was sheer Herb Sendek skill.

    LR’s first season was good. Herb gets credit for improving the program above what it was during a brief and strangled period of 1992-1996, that’s it. How he left the program after a decade of unrestricted recruiting with no NCAA sanctions involved IS very comparable to the shape in which he received it.

  22. 94MEGrad 03/06/2007 at 4:33 PM #

    ShootingGuard,
    Thanks for your comments. I always enjoy reading what you have to say.

    Cedar,
    If Herb was building a program, the pace was like that of a tree growing…….it’s happening but you can’t tell by looking at it.

  23. redfred2 03/06/2007 at 4:36 PM #

    ^To add, when I said “How he left the program” up there, I was speaking stritly player-wise. The reality is that the actual program itself had been further removed from everything it once stood for, and was in worse shape, when Sidney Lowe took it over.

  24. ShootingGuard 03/06/2007 at 4:37 PM #

    gopack968 and Gene,

    I am not going to disrespect either of you with volleys because I believe each of you bring up some good questions that, for any of us, could only be answered hypothetically anyway…Plus, I think your questions are a valid way to question or think through an issue that won’t seem to go away in stark contrast to something like “Oh, Herb brought in Damien Wilkins—see how great a recruiter and coach he is!! We should have a parade for him or put his whistle up in the rafters…” So, take this as a disclaimer…

    My point about the Harden recruitment was not directed at your valid points but more toward the “group” of “fans” that thinks that Herb was somehow morally superior to all other coaches out there and used that as an excuse for Herb not achieving what many coaches out there have achieved and have even gone so far to imply over and over that Herb should be retained almost solely because of his “character” and “good guy” image (it sure couldn’t be the championships). Personally, I think the “character” and “good guy” part should be an assumed standard applied to everyone, that it shouldn’t be an excuse for keeping someone, and there are plenty of “good guys” out there who are more successful coaches. In the end, I too think, that if you work within the existing rules and don’t break them, such is the breaks just like when you hire away someone in the corporate world.

    My point about the program having to be rebuilt AGAIN in year 11 speaks to the FACT that, even though I like Atsur and would like to have him in my championship team lineup, we rolled into *repeat* YEAR 11 without a point guard anywhere near the calibre of Singletary, Critt, Lawson, etc. and, even with Atsur, had just ONE ballhandling combo guard of ACC level talent. While this next part could be called conjecture, it is highly unlikely, and certainly the past is a great indicator, that we would have made much noise based on just those deficiencies when you consider how much noise we haven’t made the last few years with many more combo guards and much more depth and senior experience than this year.

    Whether anyone wants to believe the following or not is their personal choice, but I have it on direct info that one of the following—Simmons or Brackman—said he would never come back and play for Herb again. Sadly, I have heard plenty of indirect quotes on the other guy saying basically the same thing, although I concede that to be rumor. Fortunately for both guys, Coach K gave Simmons a night to take more than 6 shots and highlight his potential to the world while God gave Brackman a 7ft frame and a fastball, so whoever had to make whatever choice had great options. Although, I am willing to concede that, even if everything were great between Herb and Simmons / Brackman, both could or would have made the choices they ended up making anyway—and I can’t say that I blame either one. At the same time, far be it for me as an NC State fan to think that an NC State coach might plan for this type of thing…Hmmm, planning. That brings up a repeat question—why don’t we have another ballhandler besides Atsur this year?? Someone must have gone pro that I wasn’t aware of…

    While I think Davis and Werner could have made a difference, like above, that is clearly debatable, and, obviously, based on past use of freshmen and results even with “stars” like Wilkins or a deep and experience team like last year, I have no confidence that we would have done that much better, if any, with Davis and Werner. We would have probably beaten Miami but been blown out by UNC on our home floor and been told “WTNY!!”…Wait, that was last year…Hooray!!

  25. Wulfpack 03/06/2007 at 4:39 PM #

    “LR’s first season was good. Herb gets credit for improving the program above what it was during a brief and strangled period of 1992-1996, that’s it. How he left the program after a decade of unrestricted recruiting with no NCAA sanctions involved IS very comparable to the shape in which he received it.”

    FIVE CONSECUTIVE NCAA TOURNAMENTS. FIVE. That is a fact. Do not re-write history. He had this program near the top of the league. We were not the best. We were far from the worst. Herb most definitely improved the program. I do not understand the venom which some fans have for this guy. I thank him for his good works.

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