Herb Probably Got this Guy Fired

Poor Ben Braun. There may be one coach in all of college basketball whose personality is less vibrant than Braun’s; but that one coach may the one who ultimately gets the California Head Coach fired.

Braun

Check out this link that discusses Cal’s 41-42 loss this weekend to (previously) 1-14 Arizona State. You read that correctly. 41-42. In a college basketball game. In a major conference, In 2007. With the shot clock. And three point line.

After losing to Arizona State 42-41 Saturday, Cal is the No. 8 seed in the Pac-10 Tournament and will likely need to win three games just to make the NIT. Those mere 41 points, yep, lowest output since 1988. Hell, the football team put up more than that on multiple occasions.

The Bears have lost 10 of 12 and that man pictured? Yeah, Ben Braun’s chair might be getting warm. He has one of the longer tenures in the Pac-10, but he really hasn’t done much at Cal, and while injuries have decimated the Bears this year, to lose to Arizona State at home?! Friggin’ Arizona State?!

In fact, the ‘big’ ASU win moved the Sun Devils out of the cellar of one guy’s power ratings.

If you remember, Herb Sendek’s NC State Wolfpack eliminated the Cal Bears from the first round of last year’s NCAA Tournament. For some fun, you can review the entry from last year’s NC State win.

Herb

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128 Responses to Herb Probably Got this Guy Fired

  1. CedarGroveWolf 03/06/2007 at 12:36 PM #

    “all your doing is padding recruiting stats, sorta like his overall record.”

    his recruiting record & overall record speaks for themselves.

    “but im sure that wasnt herbs fault”

    I’m sure all was 100% his fault right? LMAO!

  2. lush 03/06/2007 at 12:46 PM #

    “his recruiting record & overall record speaks for themselves.”

    they sure do. beat the crappy teams, lose to the good ones. play more crappy teams than good ones and have a winning record.

    “I’m sure all was 100% his fault right?”

    ummmm isnt the head coach responsible for the program?

    LMAO – what does this mean.

  3. ShootingGuard 03/06/2007 at 12:51 PM #

    Because I have defended Herb Sendek from MANY personal attacks and what I would call “stupid” basketball analysis over the years (including plenty of near confrontations with rednecks who were literally yelling profanities at Herb’s wife and family in the stands), I feel completely qualified to say the following…

    I totally understand why many Pack fans find that they want to root AGAINST Herb now that he is in the desert…

    The media is part of it, but it is also because TOO many “Pack” fans invested so much of their “loyalty” to Herb and their argument agenda rather than THE PROGRAM—even going so far as to try to make a Pack legend like Sid look bad early in the year to feed the Herb argument agenda. So much so that you almost want to see Sendek fail miserably so that all of those “fans” will shut up once and for all about the “greatness” that was the Herb years.

    Who cares if Herb was nice or not, recruited well or not, coached well or not, or developed talent well or not—the proof is in the pudding, not one ingredient you pull out and declare is good.

    It took Herb 6 years to even sniff the NCAA’s, and, in 10 years (actually 11 years since Herb did not “build” for this year to be anything great), Herb brought home zero hardware and made zero trips to the Elite 8, much less the Final Four. Make all of the excuses you want about the SLOWNESS in moving forward and the TOTAL LACK of major success once rebuilt all you want, but Gary Williams, Paul Hewitt, Dave Leito, and a host of others stand ready to refute any feeble retorts. And, please, don’t say something stupid like “well, Dave Leito inherited Sean Singletary” as, sure, luck helps, but that is a pretty weak defense of Herb since his only closely comparable pg of SS stature was set to arrive as a FRESHMAN in year 12!! I am fairly certain that Dave Leito will sign a decent pg in the next 10 years—to match Herb—and, when Calhoun steps down, I am fairly certain that Leito, not Herb, will at least get an interview for the head coaching job at UConn.

    Why does anyone who supposedly roots for NORTH CAROLINA State come on here to defend Herb anyway?? Herb is the past. The past is relevant only as a standard to improve upon—not something to be defended.

    Why does anyone try to bring down Sid by mentioning he and Herb in the same breath as if a real NORTH CAROLINA State fan wants them to achieve the same success?? Sid is the near-term future for sure and potentially the long-term future—do ALL Pack fans not want him to achieve MUCH more than Herb did over the last 10 years?? Not that Herb and Arizona State are ever going to play for the NCAA Championship (Herb does not build his programs for that in that, in his own words, no game is more important than another), but such makes me wonder who certain “Pack” fans might root for in a title game of NC State with any coach vs ASU and Herb…

    Herb will be very successful by ASU standards at ASU. He has already brought his focus on playing defense, managing every possession, and keeping the scores low to the delight of the Pac 10 which is not used to this style of play. He will use his same scheduling techniques to get to 20 wins and an NCAA berth nearly every year after the rebuilding process (normally takes 6 years according to Herb), and once every 5 or so years after that, probably, he will get ASU on a “big run” to the Sweet 16. If Herb took notes, learned anything, and applies such learning from his tenure at NORTH CAROLINA State to his efforts at ASU, he could do better and keep the non-rabid and non-lunatic fans at ASU as ecstatic as they had to be watching the big barnburner over Cal, although no one sees an NCAA Championship in ASU’s future. (Of course, getting James Harden will help such efforts a lot—do any of the “good” Herb Sendek’s fans have a problem with the way Mr Character got this recruit??)

    NORTH CAROLINA State fans rightfully expect and want more than the “great” success of the past 10 years. Case, Sloan, and Valvano all did way more. Hell, even Press Maravich did way more.

    Les Robinson remains beloved in a Jerry Faust kind of way because he fell on the sword for THE PROGRAM.

    Herb Sendek will always be scorned by some because he stubbornly refused to fall on the sword until “the program” he supposedly did such “great” things over 10 years to “rebuild” actually needed REBUILDING of all things AGAIN in year 11.

    Sid played for the GREAT Sloan and the GREAT Valvano. He won every conceivable piece of hardware as a player, MVP and Championship hardware. We will see if he can do the same as a coach. We expect him to strive to do what we have seen in the past—beat the Duke’s and UNC’s and win ACC and (hopefully) a 3rd NCAA Title. Having been so much a part of THE PROGRAM’s history, Sid knows what it is all about, so that is a start. If it turns out that he simply can’t get it done in a reasonable amount of time, then I am fairly certain Sid will fall on the sword and remain beloved as he should be as a Pack PLAYER legend…

    Becoming a Pack COACHING legend entails more than a few NCAA trips and one S16…Sid, of all people, knows this—it would be nice if ALL Pack fans acted like they knew this as well…

  4. GAWolf 03/06/2007 at 12:51 PM #

    Or perhaps his reason for neglecting the “past” and the “family atmosphere” was strictly for self-preservation? As in, maybe he thought . o O (hmmm… the more I alienate these fans and this administration from this school’s glory years the more likely my mediocre results will keep my over-payed butt in a job.)

    Or maybe it was indeed just solely a personality issue as the mass media wanted the nation to believe.

    I don’t know… I’m just saying…

  5. CedarGroveWolf 03/06/2007 at 12:51 PM #

    being responsible & being at fault are different. LMAO = laughing my azz off

  6. packbackr04 03/06/2007 at 12:56 PM #

    hahah lush is on fire, i was thinking of the exact same “highly” rated recruits that never panned out. i would also add Kenny Inge. He was a beast as a freshman, and got considerably worse and worse the longer he played under He who shall not be mentioned.

    Hodge was the man. I hope he get another shot in the league. he needs to get on some HGH and bulk up. its like nascar and their cheating scandal. noone is testing these days so if you aint using roids, you aint trying. just ask bonds.

    lets stop dwelling in the past…. i heard we recruited and got a commitment from some kid who plays a position called Point Guard… ive never heard of it… can someone enlighten me as to what this position does on the court… it sounds made up.

  7. packbackr04 03/06/2007 at 1:03 PM #

    do any of the “good” Herb Sendek’s fans have a problem with the way Mr Character got this recruit??)
    Shooting Guard I am no “good” Sendek fan or really a fan at all, but i Would still love to hear how Herb got that Recruit this year.

  8. ShootingGuard 03/06/2007 at 1:25 PM #

    “^both were highly rated, esp Wilkins”

    Boy, it took a lot longer to type my longwinded post than it did to find a post that proves about everything I said…

    Seriously, who gives a crap how highly rated Damien Wilkins was or who recruited him in the first place??

    How many titles of any kind did Wilkins win while at NORTH CAROLINA State?? How far did NORTH CAROLINA State advance in the NCAA Tourney with such a highly rated recruit as Wilkins playing under the tutelage of a great coach such as Sendek??

    To pull out such an utterly dubious and stupid example as Damien Wilkins to prove any tiny point about any coach just shows that, as I pointed out, there is still at least one “Pack” fan out there with a “loyalty” to the Herb was “great” argument and argument agenda itself over that of the NORTH CAROLINA State PROGRAM…

    Plus, it is just stupid logic proving the alternative opinion you seek to argue about…

    If Damien was so great, why didn’t he pan out? Herb must suck at coaching / developing and getting the most out of such great players…

    If Damien was overrated, why did Herb recruit him? Herb must suck at evaluating talent…

    Somebody please buy this guy a ticket to Tempe…

  9. redfred2 03/06/2007 at 1:26 PM #

    Les not forget:

    1991…went 20-11, and WAS the only first year ACC coach in history to have a 20 win season, post a winning ACC regular season record, and win games in both ACC and NCAA tournaments, and was named district COY

    1992-93…could only DRESS seven players

    1996…Les Robinson became the AD at NCSU

    That was just to enlighten or refresh some memories. Now, forget all of that crapola. That was just a drop in the bucket and very brief period in the history of WOLFPACK basketball. Some of you folks unfortunately think there was nothing before then.

  10. gopack968 03/06/2007 at 1:40 PM #

    “the program” he supposedly did such “great” things over 10 years to “rebuild” actually needed REBUILDING of all things AGAIN in year 11.

    ShootingGuard – I respect your knowledge but find it hard to attribute the empty closet this year to Herb. The early departures of Simmons and Brackman were perhaps foreseeable, but by no means certain. In addition there are a couple of freshman not on the bench who could have contributed at least as much as Horner did but chose to go elsewhere when Herb left. That is at least four players missing, two of who accounted for nearly 40% of our offense last year.

    Having said that, Herb did not use freshmen much (Cedric and others) and would not play guys who did not run his defense to perfection (Scooter and others), so I have many real problems with him – and I am glad he left and Sidney arrived. I just don’t think you can blame Herb for the short bench this year.

  11. CedarGroveWolf 03/06/2007 at 1:40 PM #

    “How many titles of any kind did Wilkins win while at NORTH CAROLINA State?? ”

    We’ll never know what we could have done if his family didn’t interfear & he had stayed 2 more years.

    “there is still at least one “Pack” fan out there with a “loyalty” to the Herb was “great” argument and argument agenda itself over that of the NORTH CAROLINA State PROGRAM”

    why, because I don’t bash Herb like most here? I’m am NCSU alum & as big a fan as anyone here. “Fans” that keep taking shots at the man continue to make the whole fan base look like idoits.

  12. tractor57 03/06/2007 at 1:50 PM #

    GAWOLF,

    “I don’t know… I’m just saying…”

    To me that is the age old question – I see very valid points when looking at the issue from either viewpoint. Regardless, Sendek is gone and Lowe is the coach at State and the family and tradition are back – through very little help from the administration, I fear (and I’m not talking about Fowler here).

  13. Gene 03/06/2007 at 1:50 PM #

    (Of course, getting James Harden will help such efforts a lot—do any of the “good” Herb Sendek’s fans have a problem with the way Mr Character got this recruit??)

    Same way Herb got Archie Miller, who was top 100 or top 50 recruit or something, coming out of high school. Nothing illegal in what Herb did and if you can get a top recruit, by following the rules, what’s “shadey” about it. What Herb did was nowhere near as cut throat as what Huggins did to UNC-C, to get Beasely to come K-State, by actually hiring away an assistant, UNC-C had hired to impress Beasely. As for as hiring Sean Miller to get Archie goes, Sean is maintaining a fairly successful Xavier program, so clearly Herb didn’t bring on board a guy, with no business being on a college bench, while at NCSU, just to land a recruit. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt with whoever he hired to get Harden, having the potential to be a good college coach.

    Herb Sendek will always be scorned by some because he stubbornly refused to fall on the sword until “the program” he supposedly did such “great” things over 10 years to “rebuild” actually needed REBUILDING of all things AGAIN in year 11.

    Just a food-for-thought question: if no one left the program early and all our recruits came in, would we be rebuilding this year?

    Note: this question has nothing to do with who the coach is, but who the available personnel are.

  14. redfred2 03/06/2007 at 1:51 PM #

    Herb’s recruiting was no more, or less spectacular than his W/L record. He recruited second fiddle, and his teams played likewise.

    The real question is, did they, THE KIDS like Powell, Wilkens, and on down the line… benefit basketball-wise by signing and playing in Raleigh, under Herb Sendek, more than they would have if they had signed elsewhere to begin with?

  15. CedarGroveWolf 03/06/2007 at 2:00 PM #

    Cedar,
    For the last time I am telling you to stay out of Sendek discussions. – Rick

  16. packbackr04 03/06/2007 at 2:23 PM #

    no comments on my pithy comment above??? whats up guys? i thought it was pretty funny. ill post it again below so maybe it will get noticed amongst all the herb drivel thats going on.

    i heard we recruited and got a commitment from some kid who plays a position called Point Guard… ive never heard of it… can someone enlighten me as to what this position does on the court… it sounds made up

  17. lush 03/06/2007 at 2:28 PM #

    “being responsible & being at fault are different”

    so herb was responsible for all the good (very few) things that he accomplished, and not at fault for all the bad? now wonder he stayed so long.

    “since very few with great potential stayed around long enough, we’ll never know. ”

    he’s the reason they left, so is he responsible or at fault?

    which one makes him look better in your eyes?

  18. CedarGroveWolf 03/06/2007 at 2:33 PM #

    “he’s the reason they left”

    please elaborate

  19. redfred2 03/06/2007 at 2:33 PM #

    04

    Explain the word “position” first, then maybe someone can help you.

  20. packbackr04 03/06/2007 at 2:39 PM #

    red^ that is the question. i thought all players were 6’5″ to 6’7″ and their jobs were to roam the 3 point line constantly weaving in and out of each other until it makes the audience dizzy.

    ANd in the rare occasion, you get a 6’10” guy like Ced, you pull him out to the top of the key to serve a double purpose. It gets him way out of his shooting range AND also to places him so far out of position he has no chance of getting a rebound.

  21. packbackr04 03/06/2007 at 2:40 PM #

    the genius is in its simplicity really

  22. lush 03/06/2007 at 2:41 PM #

    “he’s the reason they left.” “please elaborate”

    oops there i go again assuming that the HEAD COACH has something to do with the direction of the basketball team.

    well i guess it must have been the fan base, or the facilities, or the acc was too tough, or they were homesick. because it obviously didnt have anything to do with man who runs the program

  23. CedarGroveWolf 03/06/2007 at 2:47 PM #

    please explain exactly what Herb did to run off talented players if that’s your claim.

  24. redfred2 03/06/2007 at 2:48 PM #

    “oops there i go again assuming that the HEAD COACH has something to do with the direction of the basketball team.”

    He does lush, but it was only the good stuff, like the five incredible NCAA runs.

  25. lush 03/06/2007 at 2:58 PM #

    please explain exactly why herb couldnt keep talented players, or is that not his responsibility

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