“Raleigh Time”

Campus News General NC State Administration65

When I was at State in the late 1980s and early 1990s I had two fraternity brothers from West Jefferson, NC that became two of my closest friends in the world. (Even today these gentlemen and their families live just a couple of miles around the corner from my family).

These two guys were notorious for being consistently late to EVERYTHING. It wasn’t a fashion statement. It wasn’t intentional. It wasn’t a big deal. But, it was constant. You name the event – other than tip-off of an intramural sporting event – and these guys were rolling up late. It was so consistent that we termed acts of arriving late as being on “West Jefferson time”.

Today, I ran across and article in the N&O that reminded me why Raleigh is one of the most frustrating places in the world to live. Don’t get me wrong, Raleigh is a wonderful, wonderful place and is the focal point of the world for an old Eastern North Carolina boy like myself.

BUT, after living in numerous other cities over the last 20 years, I can think of few places whose projects and “plans” move as slowly and as painfully as things move in Raleigh. The ‘benefit’ of doing anything in Raleigh rarely seems to outweigh the political and bureaucratic nightmare that accompany the ideas. Does anyone remember the nightmare of trying to get the ESA off the ground?

This article in the N&O discusses some ‘new’ improvements near the NC State campus that are also highlighted in this more comprehensieve link.

Seven years after it was proposed as a cure for Hillsborough Street’s ills, the roundabout is coming to N.C. State’s main corridor.

The Raleigh City Council voted 6-2 Tuesday to install roundabouts — as part of a $6.3 million redevelopment — at Pullen Road’s intersection with Hillsborough and where Groveland feeds into Oberlin Road just north of Oberlin’s intersection with Hillsborough.

The design calls for installation of a pedestrian median and the creation of 100 parking spaces along one of the city’s main east-west thoroughfares.

Yep. SEVEN YEARS ago it was proposed; it was approved now. Let’s wait and see when it is completed.

The adopted plan is a modified version of a proposal that has been around since 1999, when a group of neighbors and state and local officials called for the installation of 11 roundabouts along Hillsborough

To be fair, the “seven years” estimate is actually being generous. I remember in the mid 1990s – at least TWELVE YEARS AGO – a volunteer group focused on Hillsborough Street redevelopment that proposed a grandiose plan for the area that was partly based on the concept of these traffic circles. The Hillsborough Street Partnership was launched in 1996.

So, twelve years later we finally get the traffic circles approved while NOTHING has been done regarding the overall health and appearance of Hillsborough Street in the aftermath of losing multiple dozens of business in the last decade.

So much has changed around campus that reviving Hillsborough Street may not even be worth any effort (not as though anyone has put any effort into it). About a month ago we ran this key piece that discusses a lot of these campus topics. The comments section of that entry is absolutely fantastic and includes the following

“In addition, the growth of the Centenial campus and all of the growth on the other side of Western Blvd has served to make NC State less intimate and cozy, and further marginalize Hillsborough Street.”

^ This is actually a FANTASTIC POINT.

There is NO DOUBT that there is a shift in this dynamic. And, with this shift comes an awesome opportunity to really make the situation better for everyone (including the residents behind Hillsborough Street who don’t welcome natural extensions and consequences of buying property where they chose to buy property).

SO…what kind of work/partnership/strategic plans have the University worked on to optimize and re-develop the Mission Valley/Western Blvd/Avent Ferry Road cluster?

This looks to be a wonderful location to bring more vibrant commercial, retail and housing ideas to the table. It would/could be the defacto center of the ‘new’ University and also convenient to the (supposed) future redeveloped fraternity court. I’d love to hear what Stafford and the Univeristy have been working on the last 15 years.

turnabout

Campus News General NC State Administration

65 Responses to “Raleigh Time”

  1. packpigskinfan23 02/21/2007 at 5:54 PM #

    tcthdi- what is wrong with “traffic” being diverted?! if the traffic is not comming down hillsborough for buisness… then it dosnt need to be their. Western and Clark can share the burden that Hillsborough St makes for thru-drivers.

    this plan brings hillsborough st back to the students/consumers of the local buisnesses and will help attract more buisness. in theory.

    all we can do is hope it will work. you are absolultely correct about the incompetence of the government/ncsu in getting anything done about this sooner, but I think it will work.

  2. Mr O 02/21/2007 at 6:13 PM #

    I though of Washington DC with its roundabouts, but are they really entertainment districts?

    Parking still seems to be the biggest issue. I drive down Hillsborough St frequently and never see it as much of a problem getting through the area. Glenwood South actually has quite a bit of parking around the area with the parking deck near Sullivan’s and along the sidestreets.

  3. wolfonthehill 02/21/2007 at 7:04 PM #

    I personally LOVE roundabouts for improved traffic flow. However, in a high-pedestrian traffic area like Hillsborough Street, I’m not sure how they’ll work unless there are alternate ways for pedestrians to cross. If cars have to stop for pedestrians anyway, who cares if they’re stopping at a crosswalk or a red light?

    I’m sure I’m missing something – what is it?

  4. TNCSU 02/21/2007 at 7:14 PM #

    ^^Somebody said 2 hooka bars? There were more than that then.

    Come on, they didn’t have hooka bars in the 70’s on Hillsborough, did they? I was at State in the 80’s, and I’d never heard of a Hooka bar until 6 months ago.

    I agree with the thought that the roundabouts may divert traffic from Hillsborough to Western/Wade/Peace to get downtown, so that Hillsborough can be less of a thoroughfare — Hey with all the Traffic Engineers at State, why can’t we get an innovative idea on this one — and actually get it implemented??

  5. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 02/21/2007 at 7:22 PM #

    tcthdi- what is wrong with “traffic” being diverted?!

    Clark Ave is a residential Street whereas Hillsborough Street is the highway that runs from the Capitol building to the town of Hillsborough. Just like Wilmington Street is the highway to Wilmington and Fayetteville Street to Fayetteville. For extra credit: Guess where New Bern Avenue goes?

    Your suggestion that you are returning the Hillsborough Highway back to the students and consumers is factually and historically incorrect, at the same time you are trying to turn a longtime residential road into a highway.

    Parking is the biggest problem and that can be solved with a city built parking deck. The next killer was changing the drinking age from 18 to 21 and closing many of the bars. The market determines where people want to shop. The city can spend a few million to make it look nicer (which should be done) and kick out the homeless people but it is business owners that can bring the area back not roundabouts.

  6. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 02/21/2007 at 7:25 PM #

    Come on, they didn’t have hooka bars in the 70’s on Hillsborough, did they? I was at State in the 80’s, and I’d never heard of a Hooka bar until 6 months ago.

    The old McDonald’s was a XXX theater in the 70’s and during my childhood (also the 70’s) I often heard references to the ladies of the evening working H.ST.

  7. packpigskinfan23 02/21/2007 at 7:39 PM #

    hooka bars are smoking lounges…

    I was refrencing Clark Ave. just because that is a road you named. if Wade Ave and Western cant handle the traffic that would be deteried from Hillsborough St by the roundabouts then I dont know what could. the asthetics and the slowing down WILL do go for the buisness just by bringing students out during the daytime more for lunch and beers at night.

    sorry if I am “factually and historically incorrect” about RETURNING Hillsborough St to the students. I wasnt around in the 70’s and 80’s. I am here now. You guys all talk like Hillsborough St was once THE student place to be. I figure improvments that bring students to the place is bringing them BACK. I dont see that as incorrect. especially not “factually” or “historically.” Its a HISTORICALLY popular place for students. and that is a FACT.

  8. Buddygreen 02/21/2007 at 8:04 PM #

    You guys make me feel old, i have not been to Hillsborough Street in years. I remember Zacks before they moved down next to Meriedth, Eds, then came Darrlys, where McDonalds is used to be a movie theater that showed XXX movies one night was dollar night and afterwards a hundred guys would go through campus for panty raid, I think where you guys say ACC tavern is used to be My Apartment Lounge which was THE topless place in Raleigh at one time, Mitches, Blimpies Subs with its Buckets of beer, Amedeos, Two Guys (are they still there?), there was a club upstairs above Blimpies I think it was the Switch or something like that. and what was the name of the Italian place next to Two Guys? They still there?

  9. packpigskinfan23 02/21/2007 at 8:07 PM #

    Two Guys and Brothers(the place beside) are both gone. just closed year before last.

    Amedeos is a personal favorite of mine, although it is not that popular with the rest of the student population. the owner of Amedeos actually came from where I grew up in Reading PA.

  10. highstick 02/21/2007 at 8:34 PM #

    Maybe that’s my age showing through! Those three places were “titty bars”, topless joints as we used to call them. My Apartment had amateur night periodically and some of the State girls would strip.

    The Wolves Den predated Darryl’s in roughly the same location. I had my first legal beer there when I turned 18 in my freshman year. There was an upscale men’s clothing store in the same section across from the Bell Tower. It wasn’t Nowell’s, maybe the “Stag Shop” or something like that. They always had a Red NC State Blazer in the front window.

  11. Buddygreen 02/21/2007 at 9:00 PM #

    Yea the upscale strippers worked at My apartment Lounge and the “nto as pretty girls” worked at the Keg down the road. A stripper/student sat next to me Into to Eng, and was my chemistry lap partner. To say the least I didn’t miss a class in either and got to know some very interesting girls in town. Good memories! Hate that Two guys and Brothers closed. Chargrill still there? Great Burgers!!! There was nothing like a run to Chargrill after a night on Hillsborough street partying. Since the RBC moved out to Carter Finley when I ride up I never seem to make it over to campus or Hillsborough, I need to do that.

  12. packpigskinfan23 02/21/2007 at 9:14 PM #

    chargrill is going strong…

  13. highstick 02/21/2007 at 11:23 PM #

    Chemistry “lap” partner? Was that a Freudian slip?? The Keg was the one I couldn’t remember.

    Chargrill is still my favorite burger stop when I’m in Raleigh!~

  14. blpack 02/22/2007 at 12:23 AM #

    Maybe now that the city has wasted years on the Fay. St. Mall effort, they will turn their attention to Hillsborough Street and come up with a worthwhile plan. They seem to be about 10 years tardy on actually doing something. When McD and the two pizza places closed, among others, that should have said something to the mayor and city council.
    (doesn’t New Bern Street go to Rocky Mount? ) ; )

  15. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 02/22/2007 at 4:34 PM #

    The reason H St. was the place to be was because it had twice as many bars on it and there were not as many bars elsewhere around campus. Not because there was less traffic. Not to mention fewer students had cars and the drinking age was 18. Not only did H. St have college students you had a ton of High School seniors (Broughton in particular) using those bars.

    The way to have a prosperous area is to increase traffic not decrease it. slowing the movement of traffic and adding roundabouts will hurt business. This isn’t to say I think that the area doesn’t need a face lift and a parking deck but hurting traffic flow isn’t the way to do it. If you think it is talk to the businesses that are still on Fayetteville Street from before they put in the mall in the 70’s. That is, if you can find one.

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