“Raleigh Time”

Campus News General NC State Administration65

When I was at State in the late 1980s and early 1990s I had two fraternity brothers from West Jefferson, NC that became two of my closest friends in the world. (Even today these gentlemen and their families live just a couple of miles around the corner from my family).

These two guys were notorious for being consistently late to EVERYTHING. It wasn’t a fashion statement. It wasn’t intentional. It wasn’t a big deal. But, it was constant. You name the event – other than tip-off of an intramural sporting event – and these guys were rolling up late. It was so consistent that we termed acts of arriving late as being on “West Jefferson time”.

Today, I ran across and article in the N&O that reminded me why Raleigh is one of the most frustrating places in the world to live. Don’t get me wrong, Raleigh is a wonderful, wonderful place and is the focal point of the world for an old Eastern North Carolina boy like myself.

BUT, after living in numerous other cities over the last 20 years, I can think of few places whose projects and “plans” move as slowly and as painfully as things move in Raleigh. The ‘benefit’ of doing anything in Raleigh rarely seems to outweigh the political and bureaucratic nightmare that accompany the ideas. Does anyone remember the nightmare of trying to get the ESA off the ground?

This article in the N&O discusses some ‘new’ improvements near the NC State campus that are also highlighted in this more comprehensieve link.

Seven years after it was proposed as a cure for Hillsborough Street’s ills, the roundabout is coming to N.C. State’s main corridor.

The Raleigh City Council voted 6-2 Tuesday to install roundabouts — as part of a $6.3 million redevelopment — at Pullen Road’s intersection with Hillsborough and where Groveland feeds into Oberlin Road just north of Oberlin’s intersection with Hillsborough.

The design calls for installation of a pedestrian median and the creation of 100 parking spaces along one of the city’s main east-west thoroughfares.

Yep. SEVEN YEARS ago it was proposed; it was approved now. Let’s wait and see when it is completed.

The adopted plan is a modified version of a proposal that has been around since 1999, when a group of neighbors and state and local officials called for the installation of 11 roundabouts along Hillsborough

To be fair, the “seven years” estimate is actually being generous. I remember in the mid 1990s – at least TWELVE YEARS AGO – a volunteer group focused on Hillsborough Street redevelopment that proposed a grandiose plan for the area that was partly based on the concept of these traffic circles. The Hillsborough Street Partnership was launched in 1996.

So, twelve years later we finally get the traffic circles approved while NOTHING has been done regarding the overall health and appearance of Hillsborough Street in the aftermath of losing multiple dozens of business in the last decade.

So much has changed around campus that reviving Hillsborough Street may not even be worth any effort (not as though anyone has put any effort into it). About a month ago we ran this key piece that discusses a lot of these campus topics. The comments section of that entry is absolutely fantastic and includes the following

“In addition, the growth of the Centenial campus and all of the growth on the other side of Western Blvd has served to make NC State less intimate and cozy, and further marginalize Hillsborough Street.”

^ This is actually a FANTASTIC POINT.

There is NO DOUBT that there is a shift in this dynamic. And, with this shift comes an awesome opportunity to really make the situation better for everyone (including the residents behind Hillsborough Street who don’t welcome natural extensions and consequences of buying property where they chose to buy property).

SO…what kind of work/partnership/strategic plans have the University worked on to optimize and re-develop the Mission Valley/Western Blvd/Avent Ferry Road cluster?

This looks to be a wonderful location to bring more vibrant commercial, retail and housing ideas to the table. It would/could be the defacto center of the ‘new’ University and also convenient to the (supposed) future redeveloped fraternity court. I’d love to hear what Stafford and the Univeristy have been working on the last 15 years.

turnabout

Campus News General NC State Administration

65 Responses to “Raleigh Time”

  1. Red_Terrors 02/21/2007 at 11:33 AM #

    A great microbrewery downtown was Greenshields. It wasn’t exactly near campus…but man they made good beer. It shut down right after I finished grad school. As for Darryl’s, its been closed since 03-04 at least.

  2. crackdog 02/21/2007 at 11:33 AM #

    Washington DC has entertainment districts centered on roundabouts that seem to be pretty successful.

  3. packpigskinfan23 02/21/2007 at 11:36 AM #

    no microbrewerys…. I dont think there are any in the city at all. at least non that I know of… PLEASE someone inform me I am wrong.

    Darryls looks like it was once one of the coolest places to be. it looks like it could one day be that again. I just wish someone would do something with that building. word was about 6 months ago someone bought it. or was in the process of buying it. they did a few things inside and about a month later a ForSale sign hits the windows once again. I almost cried. I was getting excited.

  4. primacyone 02/21/2007 at 11:40 AM #

    How about Mitches, The Cantina, and the ACC Tavern? Are they still going?

    Wow, there’s three different personalities for you. I remember visiting all three in the same week on several occasions. One to think and ponder voer a picther, one for some quality upscale conversation wtih the oppoisite sex over a bucket of six, and one to do everything in your power to get lucky that night, but if you didn’t to go though about 25 plastic cups.

  5. packpigskinfan23 02/21/2007 at 11:42 AM #

    mitches is good to go. great place

    the cantina shut down recently and the place on the other side of the Brewery bought it. its now The Farmhouse. GREAT place for food. just opened and OK for drinks, but I am sure they will improve as revenue comes in.

    never heard of the acc tavern.

  6. TNCSU 02/21/2007 at 11:47 AM #

    ACC Tavern was a great place near Mitches — I remember the plastic cups — not sure how long that place has been closed. I’m sure the increase in the Drinking Age has put a damper on where students can “legally” and “safely” go get a beer — I’m sure students wouldn’t think of drinking a beer if they were under 21. The Cantina was a great place, too. I heard it was opened by a former student that had just graduated — way back when (late 80’s maybe?)

  7. packpigskinfan23 02/21/2007 at 11:53 AM #

    The Farmhouse is the new “plastic cups” place… they used to have $.50 beers on SATURDAY night… and you could buy 10 at a time… NO PROBLEM. It lasted a good amount of time. but I think those days are gone. when they moved to the old Cantina spot(just opened like 2 or 3 weeks ago) they discontinued it. You can still get $1.50 pints of just about anything decent though.

  8. Dr. BadgerPack 02/21/2007 at 11:53 AM #

    I thought ACC tavern was Mitch’s before Mitch took over. Interestingly, Mitch has a chem. degree (from State I beleive) and when I was there you could usually find a ton of chemists, err, “relaxing” at Mitch’s on a Friday night.

  9. Red_Terrors 02/21/2007 at 11:59 AM #

    I’ve stumbled back to campus many a time after Mitch’s. Always liked that place.

  10. the_phisherman 02/21/2007 at 12:08 PM #

    I think Darryl’s closed because they failed their health inspection. It was so bad that the health department asked customers to leave. Apparently there are structural problems with the building. My old roommate worked at the Darryl’s on 70 and she said that the roof of the one on Hillsborough would leak whenever it rained. It may take a serious financial commitment to restore that build to code.

  11. legacyman 02/21/2007 at 12:17 PM #

    My memory is a bit different from Rickj. I was around during the planning for the new arena and, from what I remember, the downtown landholders wanted the arena down there but no one else did, especially since we had the land available at C-F.

    The deal about the new baseball stadium is that the owner of the Durham Bulls wanted Durham to build a new stadium so he could upgrade to AA or AAA. Raleigh wanted to build a baseball facility near C-F but the Bulls owner made a trip out west to a meeting of his cohorts and got the 25 mile radius increased to 45 or whatever, enough to force the new Mudcats field to be on the other side of Raleigh thereby killing State’s chances of sharing a nice facility. Thank you Durham Bulls and your two owners.

  12. RickJ 02/21/2007 at 1:05 PM #

    legacyman – The below is taken from a Business Leader Online article on Steve Stroud:

    It all began in early 1984, with an informal meeting between Charlie Bryant, Jim Graham, Mayor Avery Upchurch and Stroud at the Velvet Cloak Inn. This meeting evolved into the Committee of ’85, charged to explore the feasibility of various sites for a new N.C. State basketball arena. “We looked at numerous possible locations,” Stroud recalls, “and felt downtown was best.” The committee’s first choice was just west of the Civic Center. “Everybody’s forgotten that downtown was our first choice,” Stroud points out.

    You may be right regarding the baseball issue. The only thing I can remember for sure is that the City of Raleigh voters passed a bond issue to build a baseball stadium at the Carter-Finley site. The rest is pretty fuzzy to me but I’m pretty sure Durham turned down Wolfe’s first request for a new stadium. I believe he would have been happy to move the franchise to Raleigh had it been offered but we’ll never know.

  13. buttPACKer 02/21/2007 at 1:09 PM #

    i have only seen pictures, but(t) Doak has been completely renovated/rebuilt, and is REALLY nice. . .

  14. packof81 02/21/2007 at 1:24 PM #

    The roundabouts won’t revive Hillsborough Street. The businesses that catered to the students were pushed out by the people who bought property down near NCSU. They wanted to live real close to the university but not be bothered by the students. This and the increased drinking age was the end for all the nightspots.

    In the 70s, Hillsborough street was lined with them. There were a bunch of good places to play music down there and at Cameron Villiage. It was a blast. The shops and restaurants thrived. Sure, there were problems. But the cure turned out to be worse than the disease.

    As for the ESA, there are a number of us who wish the pack still played in Reynolds. Reynolds rocks! So long as he’s there, Coach K will never allow Duke to build anything like the Dean Dome or the RBC. That’s because Cameron gives Duke the same advantage Reynolds once gave us.

  15. ChuckAllYall 02/21/2007 at 1:32 PM #

    “Roundabouts????? Roundabouts????!!!! We got a State/Carolina game tonight and we talking about Roundabouts? Shhheesshhh.” —–Adapted from the infamous Alan Iverson “Practice?” press conference.

  16. PackBacker001 02/21/2007 at 1:42 PM #

    I have heard that the Darryl’s building is in need of extensive repairs. Even worse, if these repairs are undertaken then the building is exempted from its grandfather status and would be held to current regulations and laws. A lot of the materials used to put that building up are no longer allowed and would need to be removed by certified construction companies, permits would need to be issued, etc. etc. The red tape and amount of money it would take makes it an impossible investment.

    It will need to be torn down, but even that will be prohibitively expensive. Maybe we’ll get lucky and a tornado will land on just that one building. Or, we could just invite a bunch of ECU fans to party there the next time we play them. Win or lose, they’d tear the place apart. It’s just what they do.

  17. Pack84 02/21/2007 at 1:45 PM #

    “want to make things better in Raleigh??? give Lee a golden hand job and show him the door”

    I lollered at this one.

  18. TNCSU 02/21/2007 at 2:09 PM #

    “Roundabouts????? Roundabouts????!!!! We got a State/Carolina game tonight and we talking about Roundabouts? Shhheesshhh.” —–Adapted from the infamous Alan Iverson “Practice?” press conference

    I thought that sounded more like the infamous Jim Mora press conference, “Playoffs?…Playoffs???” Anyway, the drinking age change has definitely ruined Hillsborough — along with other issues. Don’t get me started on the drinking age — there are alot of 18-20 year olds in Iraq and Afghanistan getting shot at, at check points with car bombers, trying to rebuild a country, yet at the end of the day, they aren’t mature enough to have a beer?? WTF?? Okay, back to the UNX game tonight!

  19. #44 17 24 02/21/2007 at 2:13 PM #

    Nah this is a good thing. I walk across the Pullen-Hillsborough intersection all the time and believe me, its even a pain. Press the button to walk across all in about 5 seconds, then watch the every car sit their with red lights all around for about 2 whole minutes. Its rediculous.

  20. CarnifeX 02/21/2007 at 2:14 PM #

    The concept of adding roundabouts which will add parking spaces involves turning the street into a 2 lane road. In concept I think this can be a really nice place, however its going to take a substantial commitment from both NCSU and the City of Raleigh. The City has put up ($6M worth) and its now time for NCSU to pony up.

  21. crackdog 02/21/2007 at 3:38 PM #

    “no microbrewerys…. I dont think there are any in the city at all. at least non that I know of… PLEASE someone inform me I am wrong.”

    You are, gladly, wrong sir. The Southend Brewery, next door to the 42nd Street Oyster bar, brews beer in house. Horniblows Tavern is the bar associated with the Edenton Brewing Company, located off of Atlantic Avenue, in a warehouse. And of course, the most well-known Triangle microbrewery is the Carolina Brewing Co, located in Holly Springs, with free brewery tours at 1pm on Saturdays. Come for the tour, stay for the free beer. The PR is a great place to buy their beers in Raleigh.

  22. Pack Laddie 02/21/2007 at 4:06 PM #

    crackdog—Southend Brewery closed last year. Now a Prime Only.

  23. BigRed 02/21/2007 at 5:03 PM #

    Roundabout plan could just work. It’ll replace some (all?) of the lights in a certain stretch to keep things moving. One less lane, but long turn lanes. Again, to keep things moving, but slowly. Slow and constant turns out to have better throughput than stop and go and stop again. Traffic engineers project more flow capacity in the new configuration.

    One of the big hold ups was council members that didn’t believe the engineering reports. Despite the risks, they preferred their own common sense.

    Also supposed to be better for the peds. Wider sidewalks and less risky level of Frogger. They’ll be planting trees and putting utilities underground, so it should look better. Supposed to be similar to what they’ve done over in Glenwood South and are starting to do along Peace Street.

    Oh, and the plan adds 100 parking spaces. I’m all for that.

    PR and Mitch’s are good. Melvin’s burgers are good plus cheap. Schoolkid’s sells vinyl record albums and Cup A Joe will keep you going. C’mon down.

  24. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 02/21/2007 at 5:33 PM #

    This is a classic example of how government, even at the local level, is incompetent.

    For 15 years they have been working on a plan to revitalizing Hillsborough Street all the while Glennwood Avenue (Glennwood South) between Peace and Hillsbourgh has been developed by private enterprise in about 5 years.

    I can assure you that one lane of traffic and roundabouts will assure that people will avoid that road as much as possible and Clarke Avenue traffic will become much worse.

    I will say the Mayor is on track to buy Dix property to turn it into Raleigh’s Central Park instead of multi-million dollar houses but the Hillsborough St plan is a mess. Seems to me they are trying to turn H Street into the old Fayetteville St Mall.

  25. highstick 02/21/2007 at 5:53 PM #

    I’m not sure about the roundabouts either. I lived in Beaufort back in the late 70-‘s through mid 80’s and would go to Hilton Head frequently to meet with clients. Some of those old people there would get on a traffic circle and either couldn’t get off or would cut you off trying to get in the right lane.

    I have saved Raleigh from my mother in law at least. We finally took her car keys away. She would have killed herself and gosh knows how many others on a roundabout.

    I really hear all of you though since I was at State in the mid 60’s and then again in the early 70’s. Hillsborough St was the center of all the activity back then. Somebody said 2 hooka bars? There were more than that then. My Apartment directly across from library,next to the bowling alley. The Keg was closer to town and then another between State and Meredith!

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