Official Embarrassment Thread

06-07 Basketball General NCS Basketball Sidney Lowe56

To a man, it appears that the NC State Wolfpack forgot there was a basketball game scheduled for today. Just a hideous effort all around. Yes, the game isn’t over yet, and maybe a miracle finish will make me look silly – but I seriously doubt it.

Officially, this is the first truly inexplicable, embarrassing loss of the Lowe era.

5:40 – This classic “too little, too late” run just pisses me off more. Why couldn’t we try for the first 32 minutes? And can we please let someone else guard Harris?

5:44 – Go ahead and foul out, Gavin.

5:46 – Nice moron play from Ben.

5:47 – By all means, let’s keep fouling their only 2 decent FT shooters. What a suckfest.

5:50 – How can this get worse? Fells gets injured.

5:55 – Ferguson finally hits the rim! Oh, and Miami wins 80-65. Just awful.

About BJD95

1995 NC State graduate, sufferer of Les and MOC during my entire student tenure. An equal-opportunity objective critic and analyst of Wolfpack sports.

06-07 Basketball General NCS Basketball Sidney Lowe

56 Responses to Official Embarrassment Thread

  1. rky 02/10/2007 at 10:06 PM #

    Just in case some folks needed a reminder, I’ll link right to the blog that everyone should, at this point, go back and read:

    http://www.statefansnation.com/index.php/archives/2007/01/25/virginia-71-nc-state-58/

    We began to ride the high after handling EweNC . . . and expectations started getting a little wacky, in my opinion. (NCAAT?!?) Seems like I was on that ride during the football season, too, after the BC/FSU games. Only let us all remeber what was pointed out in that blog above. I think the team has accomplished what many of us hoped. They’ve already managed that HUGE win against the holes. The Michigan game was awesome, too, right?!? We avoided the embarrasing OOC loss. OK . . . the loss this evening truly was a hit. Overall, I think we still have plenty of reasons to be proud of our team and what Sid is accomplishing . . . and what Coach Lowe will get done in the future. I, for one, am still as chock full of Pack Pride as I’ve been in a long time. Besides . . . it’s easier to see the games if you can keep your head out of the oven, you know.

  2. Par Shooter 02/10/2007 at 10:45 PM #

    Pitiful effort today. This is one of those games where there is no excuse for the players or coaches. This was a big game relative to our goals and honestly, every ACC game is a big game. And we simply failed to give any effort. We looked totally unprepared.

    I was really high on Haith during our search and was concerned that we didn’t give him a fair shot. After hiring Sid and with some of the success Sid has had to date, I’d more or less forgotten about Haith. But today, it is impossible to deny that with similar issues related to talent and depth and on a neutral court, Haith’s team humiliated Sid’s team and it was largely due to effort.

    And let’s not even pretend that this is our first bad performance of the year. Has anyone forgotten the ecu game where we damn near lost to a team that hasn’t scratched in conf usa all year? Has anyone seen Cincy’s record this year? This was one of a few absolute eggs we have laid this year. I hope this is more a product of depth and experience than other issues. But it is hard to believe that some of these other teams have better talent than we do.

  3. tvp 02/10/2007 at 11:46 PM #

    Every college team has games where the effort and intensity is not all there for the most part. Teams that have a lot of talent and depth can hide it. We cannot.

    I think too many of our fans thought we could just walk out on the floor and beat these guys. Maybe our players, too. We aren’t as good as the team that beat UNC; we aren’t as bad as the team that played today.

    I think with time we will see less of these efforts as Sid’s coaching takes hold. But it happens.

  4. class of 74 02/11/2007 at 6:31 AM #

    What a difference a week makes! I will never understand how any team can play with so little life and energy. It’s not as if they played back to back dates or flew 3000 miles with no rest. I feel badly for Coach Lowe as he has no bench or alternatives this season to really do much else. But we all knew this season would a very difficult one to watch and with a few exceptions it has been just that.

  5. TNCSU 02/11/2007 at 7:46 AM #

    One thing I’ve noticed is that lately our games are not “close” at the end. It would be a little more encouraging to see us lose by 2 or 3, but it seems everyone that beats us, is pulling away at the end — or if we do win, we are just holding on, and hoping the game doesn’t last another 2 -3 minutes. Again, this may be due to fatigue and the short bench. I really don’t think we can judge the players and coaches too prematurely. While I applaud Chilly Water’s optimism, I think a good effort to get to the semis of the ACCT would be a “BONUS.” Remember, 4 of our starters (that play 34+ minutes per game this year) had NEVER started before this year. The experience they are gaining this year, along with this off-season, will pay big dividends next year IMHO. Go Pack!

  6. vtpackfan 02/11/2007 at 9:17 AM #

    McCauley had ONE defensive rebound. Copeland for Miami is 6’5″ and had 13 rebounds. Box Out.
    Way more questions about this team then answers after a mountain top to rock bottm week.

    Is Atsur hurt or just mentally scarred? Fells available?

    Can anyone else run a pick and roll with McCauley besides Atsur? Do they only know how to do this in West Newton Pa, and Istanbul?

    There are no questions to ask about GG, he is an enigma. He can look like a JuCo player one second and turn around and make ACC caliber plays the next. Just not enough consistency to warrant alot of expectations from him (I was way wrong, I admit it. He’s game is not going anywhere and I’m looking forward to him spelling Fells and Costner next year.)

  7. redfred2 02/11/2007 at 9:59 AM #

    Yesterday’s game must be frustrating for folks like Dapackster, he saw a team play with no enthusiam and well below it’s talent level. Welcome to the club there Dapackster, it’s been happening around here for years now. The difference is that the talent isn’t there now, and neither is HIS coach, the one responsible for depleting the ranks.

    I was working and missed it, sounds pretty bad though. I was basically expecting to see games like this against weak OOC competition early in the season. I really thought we’d all be praying for some dignity at about this point in the season but that isn’t exactly the case and there is still a reason to get excited about every ballgame. We have talent and folks are disappointed over these last two games only because of what we have witnessed in earlier efforts this season. Hopefully it’s not because some of you have convinced yourselves that we have enough talent to contend night in and night out.

    To listen to some of you folks, you’d think the ACC loss to Miami was an upset, that should tell you something.

  8. Luke12321 02/11/2007 at 10:04 AM #

    That was a very frustrating game for sure. We just got out hustled…plain and simple. Just like we out hustled UNC…we wanted that game more and yesterday Miami wanted it way more than us. Grant did not show up to play in the 1st half, finally started to come alive in the second half. Why is it lately Gavin decides to take the first half off? Grant’s game is just like Julius Hodge…he can drive and can mix it up inside as well and gets alot of his points off smarts (right place, right time plays) and hustle. Hodge was the king of scoring around 20 “ugly” points per game. Grant is not being agressive enough and needs to get to work inside rather than settling for outside jumpers. Overall, very frustrating but we went on the road and got beat. What is new in the ACC? I figured it would be a close game and Miami wanted it more…so they won. We still got a great chance at getting 5 wins and a NIT birth and isn’t that better than last place in the ACC and no nit birth?

  9. PackGirl 02/11/2007 at 10:50 AM #

    Does anyone know the status of Engin and Fells? Engin hardly played in the second half – his hamstring must be getting worse instead of better. Was Fells injury seroius enough to keep him out of the next game? Our NIT hopes are not looking good.

  10. TNCSU 02/11/2007 at 11:19 AM #

    I’ll second PackGirl, and ask if anyone has injury updates for Atsur and Fells — and Horner. I do think we’ll play better down the stretch — let’s hope!

  11. gopack968 02/11/2007 at 12:09 PM #

    Engin seemed to be slowing down throughout the game and early in the second half looked like he could not move laterally very well. When he went to the bench at around the 15 minute mark in the 2nd he put on his warmup and seemed done. I think we heve been lucky to get as much out of him as we have over the past few games. Injuries like his only improve with time and rest.

  12. legacyman 02/11/2007 at 12:38 PM #

    Many of these posts appear to be the result of ridiculous expectations by individuals and then anger when their expectations get dashed. How many felt we had any chance of beating unc-ch before the season started…recall, a twenty or so point loss to the same unc-ch team last year with the former coach’s best ever team and now we have a devastated team due to the former coach’s inept recruiting.

    We are two or more years away from being a good club…get some recruits and work them for two years. In the meantime those who don’t get it should just shut their yaps as we need positive support for this thin group of kids who want to win but don’t have enough ammo to win many in a row.

    In three years if we still look disinterested or commit too many turnovers then folks should yap but not now. So get realistic.

  13. vtpackfan 02/11/2007 at 12:40 PM #

    Even with or with out Engin, can someone who watches this team closely tell me why either Grant or Fergueson don’t play pick and roll basketball with McCualey? He is a great passer, sets good picks and accelerates (or rolls) out of them very well.

    I cant’ watch Brandon Costner’s face up game anymore. One dunk against WF does not make up for the double digit times he’s walked or offensive fouled or turn the ball over trying to get to the basket. Once again, I think he’s our best all around player, but he has not got a face up game or a right hand (so saying he’s our best all around player say’s not much for the rest of the team).

  14. vtpackfan 02/11/2007 at 12:55 PM #

    Very true Legacy^, and well put.

    I’ve tried this approach for most, if not all the season. The difference is that when we go into a game agaist Miami and know they have a poor shooting team but get after the loose balls and rebounds then there is no excuse. None. Sid and the players knew there was one way this opponet could take over the game abd they rolled over and let it happen. You can say I love the Pack, and I support these guys 100% and applaud there courageous efforts all day.
    Had we boxed out we could have limited the nearly 20 points Miami got in close range second chance points. What does boxing out have to do with fans expectations and our talent. I’ve made plenty of post’s this season agreeing with you 100%, but not this time. I feel that it is being realistic when you see shitty basketball to call it shitty basketball.

  15. ShootingGuard 02/11/2007 at 2:40 PM #

    This was actually the hangover game I expected vs GT…

    The win vs UNC and now the loss vs Miami prove only one thing about this team, and it is something everyone with half a brain should have known before the season even started—this thin and inexperienced collection of positionless players without key positions like pg and center filled has/had a chance to beat some good teams if it showed up and played its best BUT is incapable of just mailing it in and beating bad teams anyway by overcoming them in the end (like UNC has done to a million teams over the years) with overpowering talent…

    We will likely beat expectations based on injected charisma by a new coach and the mostly superior effort of some guys who never even played in the ACC before—but that’s about it. This version of NC State basketball has had its moments but is incredibly weak overall.

    Anyone who uses a loss to Miami as a coronation of Herb Sendek is a complete and total idiot. Herb would have done only slightly more with this team in his hands than he is doing with Arizona State right now. Hell, Herb’s teams mailed it in at the end of every season at State—just look at last year when everyone, including multiple seniors, mailed it in vs UNC at home to finish the season in a whimper. Who cares how many NCAA’s Herb went to in a row—he wouldn’t have gone with State this year and he never did anything when he did go anyway. By year 6, I would hope that Lowe or any other coach that can fog a mirror would have 2-time NCAA Champ NC State and its rabid fanbase going to the NCAA’s on a consistent basis and progressing on a frequent basis once there.

    At this point, the biggest thing I want for this season is another shot at Duke in the ACC Tournament. I want to play those jackasses again, and I hope that Sid and the guys will bring the same “A” game they brought vs UNC. (Herb would probably have avoided scheduling either of those teams if he could have…)

    My next wish would be a sweep of Wake, our long-time rival. Yeah, they are terrible this year, but that would be a great start based on our (I mean Herb’s) recent record vs them. Plus, they were terrible last year, and that didn’t stop “the maestro” so many idiots seem to love from mailing it in twice to end our annual swan dive at the end of the season.

    A win vs Maryland would be next on the wish list. 2 wins, of course, would be better, but let’s not get too crazy yet.

    A sweep of VT would be nice, especially since they are most likely headed to the NCAA’s (Damn, how did Seth Greenberg do that so soon in the tough ACC without even having to avoid Duke and UNC or schedule a BCA classic to pad the wins column?)

    Not getting absolutely pummeled on the road at UNC or even FSU would be a consolation type prize. Wins at either would be pretty incredible.

    Give me a win in the ACCT. 2, of course, would be even better—especially if one were to involve Duke. That would make it a win vs all 3 of our historic rivals, who have pounded us for years now, in year 1 of new coach’s regime, and that would be something to definitely build on…

    And, finally, give me a respectable showing in the NIT. How great it would have been for the comics who schedule the NIT to pit us vs Arizona State. But, alas, ASU has next to zero chance of making it. Sure, we have a chance to bow out before that as well, but…

    WE STILL HAVE A LOT TO PLAY FOR…SURE, WE WON’T BE PLAYING FOR THE NCAA CHAMPIONSHIP THE REST OF THE WAY THIS YEAR, BUT, HEY, AREN’T WE USED TO THAT??

  16. Wulfpack 02/11/2007 at 3:20 PM #

    “In the meantime those who don’t get it should just shut their yaps as we need positive support for this thin group of kids who want to win but don’t have enough ammo to win many in a row.”

    Hold on there buddy. We had more than enough “ammo” to beat Miami. If you look at their bench, they are much more worse off than us. I don’t expect anything from this team but a consistent effort. I have seen a handful of games this year where not just the execution, but the effort, has been noticeably subpar. That has got to change. Perhaps it is a mix of the players coach Lowe inherited. Perhaps it is something else. But I don’t want to watch a team that has the balls and capability to beat a top-5 UNC squad, and then the carelessness to give away games to GT and Miami. Consistency. That’s what I want to see. If you read coach Lowe’s quotes after the game, they are damning. Some of our guys just don’t seem to give a damn.

  17. TNCSU 02/11/2007 at 5:23 PM #

    Good post, Shooting Guard. I do have to agree with the “effort” statements, though. I can understand losing — in particular, this year with the thin bench, new players, etc. — but I would expect 110% effort. I’m sure Coach Lowe expects it, too. I think when we get that type of effort, we can do great things — like beat the #3 ranked “holes”!

  18. tractor57 02/11/2007 at 5:46 PM #

    It seemed to me (I listened to the last 5 minutes while traveling by car) that we were unable to deal with Miami’s backcourt and that there was a bit of a letdown in the effort department). With most teams there are ups and downs in a season (apparently we were up for UNX and they were down) but with this year’s pack any down is very obvious with the limits of the short bench and a real lack of overall team speed.
    Was I disappointed? Yes. Am I discouraged? No. To date this team has exceeded my expectations and I’m fully in their corner. 5 years from now I think the margin of error will be a lot wider than this year.

  19. choppack1 02/11/2007 at 9:06 PM #

    “Sidney’s biggest obstacle this year may be changing the culture.”

    I have mixed feelings on this. It’s not like these guys haven’t experienced some success. Heck, this will be the first year Atsur hasn’t gone to an NCAA tournament. In Atsur’s tenure, we’d won 32 conference games coming into this year. I thought our culture needed fine tuning – not total changing.

    Our main problem the last 5 years had been collapses in the 2nd half of games which kept us from really being one of the more successful programs in the country.

    But you may be on to something. Perhaps we’re seeing the effort and execution this year, that we saw in the last 4 – it’s just that this year we don’t have the combination of talent, experience, quickness and leadership that we’ve had in the past. (God knows, there were certainly plenty of those moments.)

    Next year will tell us so much more about the true direction of this program.

    However, I’m just disappointed. I can handle losing games like we lost against GaTech or UVa. It’s easy for me to watch those games and say – that crap won’t happen next year when we have some depth and another guard. However, when I see a problem w/ effort, it just pisses me off.

  20. GAWolf 02/11/2007 at 10:35 PM #

    There’s nothing that I can add of substance. I figured the GT fizzle was exactly what we needed to temper expectations. I had hopes for a season better than we originally expected until the final seconds ticked off Big Mac-Arena clock. I’m still drunk over Wolfpack basketball for the first time in years. Hiccups come with the territory.

    This just means I don’t feel obligated to fight my way through the hell that would be arguing with my ladyfriend over whether Valentine’s Day will be spent at the Maryland game or at an over-priced restaurant with her friends. If we could have held it together enough to win this game I’d be torn. As it is, it’s just not worth years of “you ‘member that Valentines Day you chose a not-quite-there NC State Basketball program over me?’ Thanks but no thanks.

    Sure do wish I had a harder decision to make…

    I still believe no one will want to play us in the ACC Tourney. Considering my preseason expectations for this year, that’s a hell of an upgrade.

  21. Thompson44 02/12/2007 at 8:03 AM #

    Lay Off Coach Lowe and the team we as a fan base knew that this was going to be a lean year so get over it and accept it. I think Coach has done a great job given what he had to work with.

    The Future looks bright and we did beat Carolina and this year that was enough for me.

  22. Rick 02/12/2007 at 8:15 AM #

    “I have mixed feelings on this. It’s not like these guys haven’t experienced some success”

    The culture change is not from losing to success. It is from being happy with mediocre to championship.

  23. Thompson44 02/12/2007 at 8:23 AM #

    Don not get me Wrong I want another Championship as bad as any other State Fan but this is not the year, I think that in 2 or 3 years with what Coach has coming in that we are headed in that direction.

    The thing I was trying to get across is that as a fan base accept that this year is going to be one of ups and downs and live with it, we are going to get better.

  24. choppack1 02/12/2007 at 8:39 AM #

    Rick – I understand – that’s why in the same post I wrote:

    But you may be on to something. Perhaps we’re seeing the effort and execution this year, that we saw in the last 4 – it’s just that this year we don’t have the combination of talent, experience, quickness and leadership that we’ve had in the past. (God knows, there were certainly plenty of those moments.)

  25. Rick 02/12/2007 at 11:26 AM #

    chop,
    I think we are seeing a much better level of effort and execution this year but there are times when we fall back into the same old mindest. IMO, next year you will see a larger jump in the transition and even more the next as the players that were brought up in the old system leave are de-programmed.

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