Virginia 71 NC State 58

06-07 Basketball General85

“Just in case anyone needed a reminder, we aren’t very good this year.”

^These comments were actually shared by one of our community’s best posters (ShootingGuard) after NC State’s home loss to Boston College three and a half weeks ago. For whatever reason, they stayed in my mind and I thought that today was appropriate to bring them back.

As you can tell, this loss was all about the perimeter. We can’t shoot very well from behind the arc and we can’t play very good defense on the perimeter. When you are matched up against the two best shooting guards in the league – Singletary and Reynolds – that is a bad mix.

Virginia guards J.R. Reynolds and Sean Singletary couldn’t be stopped tonight, combining for 56 points. The Pack, meanwhile, couldn’t shoot and couldn’t score — not enough — in losing 71-58.

“If you have good guards, you’ll win in this conference, you’ll win college basketball games,” Lowe said after the Pack fell to 1-5 in the ACC. “They had good guards. They made shots and we didn’t.”

The Pack shot 31.7 percent for the game, going 7-for-27 on 3’s. In contrast, Reynolds and Singletary together were 10 of 18 on 3’s.

State may be looking at a best case scenario of 3-13 in the ACC this year. So, Wolfpackers must remain focused on the future. We should all be great at that as we are now approaching the 20th year of the phrase “Wait til next year!” being a major component of our lexicon.

This item of shooting from the PG, SG, and 3F threatens to carry over into next year and it scares me. Everything that we have heard about Farnold Degand is related to athleticism, defense, and quickness; nothing about offense and shooting. So, unless Marques Johnson has some special stroke that has not been publicly discussed…why should we expect shooting next year to be any better than this year with generally the same players playing the same position? – Fells, Grant, Ferguson?

The more I watch, the more I wonder/hope that Dennis Horner can continue to improve and round out his game between now and next year. Because of Horner’s ability to shoot the ball from the arc, you may see starting line-ups next year that resemble the line up from last night (no Gavin Grant).

After last night’s game Rick shared the following comments that should be highlighted:

This team has problems:

(1) There is absloutely no team speed. Fells is the quickest we have and he was getting beat at will. Speed is more important than height in basketball, how “you klnow who” did not know this astounds me.

(2) Our “guards” have no basketball IQ. Grant and Fells just don’t make smart decisions. Who knows if this is just because that is the way they are or if past coaching did not teach them well. I am again surprised that __ recruited this team on purpose.

(3) No leadership. No one is willing or able to step up and take over this team.

I see Sid trying everything he knows back there. Switching offenses and defenses but he just cannot over come these problems. He was handed a lemon and no sugar.

I am going to leave you with the text of the comments of ShootingGuard’s post from three and a half weeks ago.

Just in case anyone needed a reminder, we aren’t very good this year.

We have a coach coaching with passion and a limited number of players playing with extreme heart, but we lack a lot all over the court and will struggle all season as a result.

If anyone has been fooling themselves about how great we are—or should or could be—and doesn’t understand what we lack, just look at BC vs us. They have a Sr. 6′8″-6′9″ combo forward playing the 3 while we have 2 similar but young combo forwards playing pf and center for us—going up vs their 2 experienced 7-footers. They have a little quick pg while we have no one who is particularly quick on the perimeter. We do have decent size and athleticism on the wing, but BC, like almost everyone else we will face, can match that with their own—so we get no advantage there.

As much as I like Atsur’s scrappiness and having him back for a 7-8 man rotation, he was made for a slowdown PO type of offense and is really more of a “coming off the bench” type of guy for a really good team rather than a main leader type as he has to be for us—a poor man’s Greg Paulus, unfortunately. Although Atsur’s calmness will be big help sometimes, I think, unfortunately, it will also hurt us at times as well as his walk-it-up style allows defenses to set against us. It would be nice if we had a speed burner pg AND Atsur for a changeup, but “we are who we are” and have to make the best of it for now…

Fells needs to get focused and bring it every game. Unfortunately, with such a limited bench, benching a guy—or two—who are off means a huge drop off in talent or potential on the floor…

Unfortunately, to go along with our lackings, we also came out ice cold today…

Oh well, I guess I will stop before I waste anymore time analyzing our limits and failures—or falling into dreamy WTNY mode wondering how the game might have been different with a speed burner pg, Costner sliding out to cover Dudley while JJ Hickson played center and Ben manned the pf…

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06-07 Basketball General

85 Responses to Virginia 71 NC State 58

  1. ShootingGuard 01/26/2007 at 6:00 PM #

    “Shooting Guard. I agree with almost everything you said. One minor point, Julius Hodge was the ACC POY. Singletary has yet to do that. (Although, I would say that Julius is the exception to the rule and that Sean has a chance at that this year)”

    Dan,

    I think we can both be right at the same time on this one.

    I would never discredit Hodge in any way—Hodge brought confidence and swagger back to NC State and literally carried us at times to the NCAA’s and right by UConn once (could have been twice).

    BUT, Hodge was not a lead / point guard like Singletary who can set people up and has a great jumpshot to boot nor was he a pure shooting guard like Reynolds who can get open quickly and throw in some daggers. Hodge was a total one-on-one slasher. Now, think how great our team could have been during Hodge’s 4 years IF Herb had recruited a lead guard with a shot like Singletary (not a slow combo guard like Miller or Atsur) and a freewheeling “heat it up” outside shooting guard like Reynolds (not slow, can’t create our own shot guys like Atsur or athletes made to run an offense that negates your athleticism as Bennerman was put through). Hmmm. You don’t have to think too hard on that, Jim Boeheim sought to bring in Hodge as a slot in a “pretty strong” 5 man class that had all of the bases covered. Anyone remember how they did? Yeah, I know, Carmelo Anthony was the man on that team, but I don’t think the Orangemen win it all without Gerry McNamara, and I am sure Hodge would have benefited greatly if he had had the chance to play with a lead guard half as good as Gerry McNamara.

    Unfortunately for Hodge, Herb could only bring in one potential star at a time to carry the team. Fortunately for us, Hodge and his family were better able to handle that burden than Damien Wilkins and his dad who were put in the same spot. In his later career, Damien proved that he was a contributor as a point forward and glue guy when surrounded by other cogs, rather than a team carrier. He may have ended up contributing in that way at State IF Herb had brought in anyone else. (BIG DISCLAIMER: I was very supportive of Herb telling Gerald and Damien to hit the road when Gerald started acting like a little league dad).

    The relevance of all of this to Lowe is that he must prove that he can bring in more than one potential star at a time. JJ Hickson will not save us all by himself, and, as a big man, he will be especially reliant on our guards to help make him shine—a lead guard to set him up and a hot shooter to help give him some more space down low would be nice. Lowe knows this, of course, but he will need to seal the deals on the recruiting trail. Maybe Degand-Johnson will get us through Year 2 and beyond. Maybe Julius Mays and CJ Williams will become stars and fill in the missing pieces. Unfortunately, just like Lowe’s career, it is too early to tell and mindless speculation until we get to Year 2 and Year 3 and see Lowe on the sidelines with more of his recruits—and a complete TEAM—on the floor…

  2. redfred2 01/26/2007 at 6:15 PM #

    Par Shooter

    It may or may not have worked in the Clemson game, we had to score after all, but somewhere between the six, on down to the four minute mark, I believe we where within six or seven points.

    I do not find any fault in Sidney for not trying it though. There is enough to deal with in trying to get these kids to just play hard, with some thread of consistency, on either end of the court. Everybody, including the coaches, are being forced to come to grips with each and every one of the deficits each has at the moment.

    vt, it was me who said I didn’t care about win/loss record, and you are right about a better team making the other look even worse, but I’m not talking so much about execution as I am about desire. The players have to have a burning desire to improve and execute, before Lowe, or anyone, can teach them how to do it. Sorry, but overall, I just I don’t see it in this group of players. They can be two steps slower, out of position, and getting throttled, but they need to leave all out on the court at the end. Until they start doing that, there isn’t much a coach can do for them.

  3. redfred2 01/26/2007 at 6:21 PM #

    Damnit, why do I always end up posting right after ShoostingGuard? Talk about looking ill prepared and playing out of position.

  4. vtpackfan 01/26/2007 at 7:08 PM #

    Who are we palying next, GT?

  5. choppack1 01/26/2007 at 8:02 PM #

    SG – Good post. I’d only add that during his tenure Hodge played w/ Grundy, Powell and Simmons – all of whom have ended up laying in the association. Of course, he played a combined 4 years w/ these guys – and played very little w/ Simmons, but I still, he wasn’t exactly on teams w/out talent. He the alpha wolf, but he usually had a fairly good – if not deep supporting cast.

  6. redfred2 01/26/2007 at 8:10 PM #

    vt-VT

  7. vtpackfan 01/26/2007 at 8:29 PM #

    Maybe a stronger dose of the 1-3-1 could do the trick, I don’t know. I know we have to make things work beter on offense before our “outmanned” teams get’s in a rut. i didn’t stay up or the second half of UVa game, but it seemed to go a bit better offensively. FT’s, got to make them.

    I heard something interesting during the morning commute after the loss that sounded like the “talking head” starting to reve up the natives. Joe Ovios (?) from the Morning MoJo on 620 made a comment about the three point shooting (something terrible for 27). He said he remembered a time when taking 27 three pointers in a game made people really twisted over at State. Is this hole a State grad. i mean geez’, I know they have to say something to raise eyebrows, more often then not to stupidest thing that first reaches their frontal lobe, but c’mon. I offense is searching for an identity, changing and adapting to whatever could possibly work, and the very first time we State takes it on the chin shooting behind the arc it’s “oh ,see you have to treat Sidney like you did Herbert, it’s only fair.” It’s really pathetic that I listen to this garbage so often.

    Nothing to add except that I’m still looking forward to the next game. Like I said in an earlier thread once, I’d take this misery over the long off season anyday. I think its going to break through eventually this year, but unlike after the WF game I’m not taking any kool aid chasers. For every one break through game there could be three, four, or more games when the same effort in strategy and execution is confounded by the better team.

  8. Rochester 01/27/2007 at 8:30 AM #

    From the Marion Chronicle story on Marion High’s (Julius Mays’ school) win last night:

    Mays finished with 25 points and five assists with North Carolina State coach Sidney Lowe and associate coach Monte Towe in attendance. The junior guard has made a verbal commitment with the Tar Heals.

    “I just treated them like they were more fans in the stands – even though they were not,” Mays said of Lowe and Towe, an Oak Hill graduate.

    Other than the part where their beat writer doesn’t know the difference between the Tar Holes and the Wolfpack, this is cool. I wonder if Sid can find a way to get Mays into school a year early like that kid at Southern Cal.

  9. ShootingGuard 01/27/2007 at 9:07 AM #

    “SG – Good post. I’d only add that during his tenure Hodge played w/ Grundy, Powell and Simmons – all of whom have ended up laying in the association. Of course, he played a combined 4 years w/ these guys – and played very little w/ Simmons, but I still, he wasn’t exactly on teams w/out talent. He the alpha wolf, but he usually had a fairly good – if not deep supporting cast.”

    Chop,

    I think this is another one where two people can both be right about their particular points. I agree that guys like Grundy, Powell, and Simmons were very talented, and, as such, Hodge had some talent around him (although I also agree with your aside that Hodge didn’t spend many years alongside the guys you mentioned). The problem is, going back to my original point, is that you can’t name a quality lead guard that Hodge played with in the spirit of Singletary or a “heat it up dagger” shooting guard that Hodge played with in the spirit of Reynolds. You can, of course, name plenty of guys on the teams Hodge played AGAINST and/or recruiting misses that would have helped Hodge’s—and Herb’s—charge dramatically. Hodge was made famous by his bouts with Blake and Paul, but how much better would he have been playing alongside a point as good or half as good as one of those guys or a Jarrett Jack or maybe even a Mike Nardi? How much better would Hodge have been playing alongside Juan Dixon or even Drew Nicholas or Justin Gray?

    Again, this is the past, hopefully Lowe’s recruiting will turn up the necessary lead and shooting guards that we have sorely missed and need to complement potential frontcourt stars like Hickson…No one player will be able to do it all, no matter how good they are…

  10. Gene 01/29/2007 at 5:26 PM #

    I think Scooter Sherril was supposed to be the lights out shooting guard some of you are referring to, in your above posts. He was a McDonalds high-school All-American, but for some reason didn’t turn into a big-time scorer for us. Harrington was an effective shooting guard / scorer, but transferred after his freshman year.

    Players were brought in to fill the shooting guard role, but none of them either lived up to their high school hype or stuck with the program, during Hodge’s tenure.

    As far as quick PG’s go, Herb did get Bethel, as a transfer from Georgetown, to fill that role of PG / primary ball handler. I think he did a solid job, in his last year of eligibility and unfortunately was ill quite a bit, as a junior. He did get healthy later in the year and helped us to reach the Sweet 16.

    As far as talent around Hodge goes, there just wasn’t any group, which was consistent. Watkins had a lot of talent but was injury plagued. Powell could’ve been a great inside presence, but left early, leaving a void at the center position for a year. Grundy was there for only his freshman year. Simmons didn’t come until his senior year.

    Hodge was a very impressive player, especially when I see more physically gifted athletes unable to do what he did, in terms of either scoring or drawing a foul, when he got the ball, especially in the low post.

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