Virginia 71 NC State 58

06-07 Basketball General85

“Just in case anyone needed a reminder, we aren’t very good this year.”

^These comments were actually shared by one of our community’s best posters (ShootingGuard) after NC State’s home loss to Boston College three and a half weeks ago. For whatever reason, they stayed in my mind and I thought that today was appropriate to bring them back.

As you can tell, this loss was all about the perimeter. We can’t shoot very well from behind the arc and we can’t play very good defense on the perimeter. When you are matched up against the two best shooting guards in the league – Singletary and Reynolds – that is a bad mix.

Virginia guards J.R. Reynolds and Sean Singletary couldn’t be stopped tonight, combining for 56 points. The Pack, meanwhile, couldn’t shoot and couldn’t score — not enough — in losing 71-58.

“If you have good guards, you’ll win in this conference, you’ll win college basketball games,” Lowe said after the Pack fell to 1-5 in the ACC. “They had good guards. They made shots and we didn’t.”

The Pack shot 31.7 percent for the game, going 7-for-27 on 3’s. In contrast, Reynolds and Singletary together were 10 of 18 on 3’s.

State may be looking at a best case scenario of 3-13 in the ACC this year. So, Wolfpackers must remain focused on the future. We should all be great at that as we are now approaching the 20th year of the phrase “Wait til next year!” being a major component of our lexicon.

This item of shooting from the PG, SG, and 3F threatens to carry over into next year and it scares me. Everything that we have heard about Farnold Degand is related to athleticism, defense, and quickness; nothing about offense and shooting. So, unless Marques Johnson has some special stroke that has not been publicly discussed…why should we expect shooting next year to be any better than this year with generally the same players playing the same position? – Fells, Grant, Ferguson?

The more I watch, the more I wonder/hope that Dennis Horner can continue to improve and round out his game between now and next year. Because of Horner’s ability to shoot the ball from the arc, you may see starting line-ups next year that resemble the line up from last night (no Gavin Grant).

After last night’s game Rick shared the following comments that should be highlighted:

This team has problems:

(1) There is absloutely no team speed. Fells is the quickest we have and he was getting beat at will. Speed is more important than height in basketball, how “you klnow who” did not know this astounds me.

(2) Our “guards” have no basketball IQ. Grant and Fells just don’t make smart decisions. Who knows if this is just because that is the way they are or if past coaching did not teach them well. I am again surprised that __ recruited this team on purpose.

(3) No leadership. No one is willing or able to step up and take over this team.

I see Sid trying everything he knows back there. Switching offenses and defenses but he just cannot over come these problems. He was handed a lemon and no sugar.

I am going to leave you with the text of the comments of ShootingGuard’s post from three and a half weeks ago.

Just in case anyone needed a reminder, we aren’t very good this year.

We have a coach coaching with passion and a limited number of players playing with extreme heart, but we lack a lot all over the court and will struggle all season as a result.

If anyone has been fooling themselves about how great we are—or should or could be—and doesn’t understand what we lack, just look at BC vs us. They have a Sr. 6′8″-6′9″ combo forward playing the 3 while we have 2 similar but young combo forwards playing pf and center for us—going up vs their 2 experienced 7-footers. They have a little quick pg while we have no one who is particularly quick on the perimeter. We do have decent size and athleticism on the wing, but BC, like almost everyone else we will face, can match that with their own—so we get no advantage there.

As much as I like Atsur’s scrappiness and having him back for a 7-8 man rotation, he was made for a slowdown PO type of offense and is really more of a “coming off the bench” type of guy for a really good team rather than a main leader type as he has to be for us—a poor man’s Greg Paulus, unfortunately. Although Atsur’s calmness will be big help sometimes, I think, unfortunately, it will also hurt us at times as well as his walk-it-up style allows defenses to set against us. It would be nice if we had a speed burner pg AND Atsur for a changeup, but “we are who we are” and have to make the best of it for now…

Fells needs to get focused and bring it every game. Unfortunately, with such a limited bench, benching a guy—or two—who are off means a huge drop off in talent or potential on the floor…

Unfortunately, to go along with our lackings, we also came out ice cold today…

Oh well, I guess I will stop before I waste anymore time analyzing our limits and failures—or falling into dreamy WTNY mode wondering how the game might have been different with a speed burner pg, Costner sliding out to cover Dudley while JJ Hickson played center and Ben manned the pf…

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06-07 Basketball General

85 Responses to Virginia 71 NC State 58

  1. Texpack 01/25/2007 at 12:18 PM #

    If Hickson is as advertised next year, moving Costner to the 3 will help us. I think he has the most potential on the current roster to be an effective spot up jump shooter. He looks to me the least mature player on the team in terms of handling the bad stretches. Hopefully this is something he will grow out of.

    Horner reminds me of a young Googs. Lanky, slightly uncoordinated, slow footed, with indications of having a pretty good shot.

    Courtney Fells needs to shoot 700-800 jumpers a day over the summer. His athletic ability alone can get him good looks, but he simply has to improve his shooting or defense to be a meaningful contributor.

    Sidney’s post game comments about having good guards speak volumes. He may have taken too much for granted in terms of how much BBall IQ this team had. His lack of college coaching experience may be the culprit there. Courtney Fells and Gavin Grant have never played for Morgan Wooten.

    I think I have posted here before that Valvano got schooled frequently during his first ACC season. I saw too much of Sidney Lowe during my years at State to doubt his basketball IQ. I really think he will be able to motivate and teach, but those two things still have to be proven. I’m glad he’s got a five year deal, because it may take until year three to really see major movement up the ACC standings.

  2. TNCSU 01/25/2007 at 12:21 PM #

    Here’s MY prediction for next year: The starting five will change often – Sid will have the luxury of saying, “If you’re not performing, you’ll be watching” The top five will probably be:

    1. Johnson (after 12/?)
    2. Fells
    3. Costner
    4. McCauley
    5. Hickson

    It will be a team that has no clear-cut 1-5. Grant, Smith, Horner, and maybe Thomas and Degand will be big contributors…So even without Fergie playing much, we will have a 9-10 man rotation – you almost NEED that against DOOK and UNC – they seem to wear opponents down, but I think Sidney is realizing that.

    I think the following year is the year that we’ll see huge strides — add Mays, Williams, and hopefully a 4 star big man (Sampson/Walker/Sims?) (or Lew??????) and we’ll be TOUGH!

  3. ldr of pk 75 01/25/2007 at 12:23 PM #

    Disappointing loss at home, but I’m still impressed by what Sidney is trying to instill. The guys made way too many mistakes, but still hustled. They were scrapping on the floor for loose balls with under a minute to play. It could still come together for a surprise or two before its over this year. The fundamental skills need to continue re-enforcement and I’m sure they will be. By contrast, before our game last night, I attended my HS’s (Concord High) game with Oak Hill Academy. With far, far less talent, Concord stood on the free throw line with 8 secs left leading 70-68. Missed the front end, Oak Hill hits a 3 at the buzzer to win by 1. However, throughout the game, the overmatched home team displayed enough fundamentals, poise, and decision making to almost pull off the impossible. I’ve no doubt that as the talent level rises for the Pack, even just a little, those same qualities are going to enable us to surprise some really good teams. In the next few years, the Wolfpack will not be an afterthought for the Holes , Devils, and lots of other big time teams. We are on the way back.

  4. mwcric 01/25/2007 at 12:26 PM #

    It’s a little tiring to hear about the lack of talent and basketball IQ on this team. Costner was a 5-star recruit and considered the 6th best power forward in his class. Fells = 4 stars & 9th best shooting guard; Grant was a 4-stars & 14th best small forward; McCauley 4 stars & 24th best power forward. Horner was only considered a 3-star recruit, but still number 22 in his class at small forward. All of them but Fells have NCAA tourney experience (or more aptly were members of NCAA tourney teams). Rankings can be and often are off base, but it’s not like these guys were scrubs or leftovers from other programs with full classes. Problem is, these are only five guys.

    Losing Brackman and Simmons, as well as, what, 2 of our 3 incoming freshmen recruits, is the biggest culprit to this season’s misfires. Shooting woes are nothing new to recent editions of the Pack, unfortunately. Lack of consistent defensive intensity is, however (if memory serves, and maybe it doesn’t). That, in addition to a perceived lack of fire, are my major concerns, and I hope and believe both will vanish as the coaching staff grows more cohesive and fully implements their style and M.O.

  5. Gene 01/25/2007 at 12:31 PM #

    (or Lew??????)

    Man I hope he develops and isn’t an another Adam Simmons.

    add Mays, Williams, and hopefully a 4 star big man (Sampson/Walker/Sims?)

    I didn’t think we had more than 2 open scholly’s for 2008 and those have been given to Mays and Williams, unless someone transfers.

  6. Buddygreen 01/25/2007 at 12:33 PM #

    ldr of pk 75 My daughter plays varisity b-ball for Sun Valley and son plays football. ever at one of those games look for this fellow Wolfpacker at some games. Probably be the only six foot four guy in Wolfpack red!

  7. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 01/25/2007 at 12:36 PM #

    Free throws, free throws, free throws. Down by 1, fast break, foul, Nieman to the line and he misses both? Not that Nieman was the only one but the loss of the chance to take the lead was big. Costner hit 6 of 7 from the line the other 3 that went to the line where 5-13 or 38%.

    I was proud of the team for playing hard last night and it was clear that UVA’s guards where unstoppable scoring something like 56 points. I guess they missed a shot but it seemed like everything they put up hit nothing but net.

    Better luck next week.

  8. TNCSU 01/25/2007 at 12:38 PM #

    I’m thinking since we’ve already got Williams and Mays that if Lew doesn’t develop, that scholly will be available for another big man. I think Sid used that scholly on Lew only when he found out Ced and Brackman were not going to be playing. He wanted at least some insurance at the 5 position — if he doesn’t develop, I think he’ll bring in a top rated center with Mays and Williams — my guess — only ’cause that’s what I’d do! Who knows…… Lew could turn out to be another Dirk…oh well, who am I kiddin’, Sid better go find another 4-5 star big man to bring in with Mays and Williams!

  9. smfrank 01/25/2007 at 12:40 PM #

    My freshman year was Herb’s 1st year. He started out the ACC season loosing his 1st 8, then came out with a spectacular win over #4 Clemson. They finished strong & made a run to get in the NIT. That team consisted of Justin Gainey, Osh, CC, Jeremy Hyatt, & Danny Strong (& a hurt Thorton). They also went 4 games to the ACC final. If Herb – who is considered the coaching equivalent of Napolean Dynomite – can make it to the NIT and a strong showing in the ACC tournament with that undersized (Hyatt & Strong downlow) and high IQ team (Osh should have played soccer) then there is no reason why Sidney – the coaching equivalent of Napolean Bonapart – can’t make a strong showing with this much bigger, more depth and more talented squad. All I ask for this year is some heart & scrappiness on D, and to at least get a decent shot on O. Give me something to cheer for. Sidney is just as much a part of the team as Grant, Fells, & McCauley. He doesn’t get a break just because he was left with a depleted squad. That is part of college basketball – players leave early and they graduate.

  10. TNCSU 01/25/2007 at 12:41 PM #

    ^^^Down by 1, fast break, foul, Nieman to the line and he misses both?

    If Neiman would’ve passed the ball through his legs (like Sid) to a trailing Fells, the place would’ve gone nuts with a FELLS THUNDER JAM! and we would have cruised from there! 🙂 Again, this isn’t the “What if..?” thread, though!

  11. VaWolf82 01/25/2007 at 12:50 PM #

    Realistically, Sid going 16-13 or 12-17 with this team tells us VIRTUALLY NOTHING about whether he will be a good coach for us in the long term.

    This is dead-on. Going 16-13 would have been a huge surprise to nearly everone….but would only qualify as “losing less” than expected. Exceeding low expectations got Pete Gillen a long-term deal….but he isn’t around any more. I want to reach a point where I have high expectations….and the team still exceeds them.

  12. Gene 01/25/2007 at 1:09 PM #

    Sidney – the coaching equivalent of Napolean Bonapart

    If Herb – who is considered the coaching equivalent of Napolean Dynomite

    NCSU hasn’t hired a coach, with a significant track record, as a college coach in a big time conference EVER. Case never coached in college, Sloan was successful at Citadel and struggled getting Florida off the ground, as their firts fulltime basketball coach, Valvano was 33 (or so), when he was hired and had some success at a smaller school, Les had a so so record as a coach, but got the attention of the Wolfpack Nation, when he beat V’s team in the NCAA’s, Herb had three years of head coaching experience before he was tapped by NCSU and Lowe has never coached college ball and has a lousy record, with lousy teams, in the NBA.

    Hard to say how a coach will do after year one. Case had a great first season. Les also had a good first season. I think Herb had the next best first year, compared to the other coaches we hired.

    Only point I’m trying to make is, as a program, we haven’t hired established coaches and the first year’s success does not seem to be a good indication of future results.

    Let’s keep our fingers crossed and hope Lowe can improve the program.

  13. statered 01/25/2007 at 1:12 PM #

    smfrank – that team was essentially four guards and Thornton. When he went down it was 5 guards. That many ball handlers and shooters gives you a chance ala Air Force the past couple of years.

    The only way Sid could squeeze more wins out of this team would be to go to a slow down PO type offense. He doesn’t because that is not where he wants to be longer term.

  14. Par Shooter 01/25/2007 at 1:47 PM #

    This team does seem a lot more talented and balanced than Herb’s first team but one big difference is experience. I think Hyatt and Strong were sr’s and harrison and osh were seasoned jr’s during that 1st season. All but Strong had played fairly prominent roles since their freshman year and Strong played a lot as a jr. Contrast that with our current team, where only Atsur and Grant have ever really played much of a role at all in college. And Atsur hasn’t been 100% in a meaningful game all year.

    Experience matters and I think it really helps guys become tougher mentally, which is so critical in defense and rebounding. I feel sure that our lack of experience has been a factor in our lackluster effort in those areas so far as well as decision-making with the ball. But it’s Sid’s job to get these guys to grow up quick.

  15. Frank 01/25/2007 at 1:53 PM #

    I do not believe we have a low basketball IQ. I believe we have very low EXPERIENCE. These two things can look the same on the court, but they are very different. Low basketball IQ is a permanent condition, not correctable. Lack of experience can be corrected with playing time and good coaching to make the PT of value. These players will ALL be MUCH better next season.

  16. Rick 01/25/2007 at 2:10 PM #

    “It’s a little tiring to hear about the lack of talent and basketball IQ on this team. ”
    Who has said this team is without talent? No One. They have talent it is just an odd assortment.
    Rankings do not give an indication on basketball IQ, they tend to emphasize physical skills over basketball skills. The assumption is they can learn these in college.

  17. Mike 01/25/2007 at 3:50 PM #

    Little things go a long way in this game. We had one run to get right back in it, then we were gassed. They pulled back away. We made the next run and unfortunately Nieman missed the 2 FT’s. Those would have put us ahead and could have changed everything.

    Down the stretch, they hit some big 3’s where we played good D. Give those gusy credit, they made some tough shots. Throw in all our missed FT’s, and the ouotcome is different. Had we made half of what was missed, then instaed of being down 8 or 9 and having to foul at the end, we are down 2 or 3, playing solid D trying to get the ball back. Foul 90% FT shooters and there is no chance to come back. Only those guys touched the ball to be fouled. Game over (unless Sid can coax some Dane Suttle magic).

    We have NOT lost any games we should have won. Not many schools can say that. We have won some games we should have lost. To me, this is a good measuring stick. And look on the bright side – at least we have not lost 10 in a row.

  18. ChuckAllYall 01/25/2007 at 3:59 PM #

    I agree Mike that we have not lost any games that we initially felt we should have won. The somewhat frustrating thing is that we have lost two games that we very well COULD have won had we demonstrated even a mediocore performance. Ex. Virginia (at UVA) and Cincinatti.

  19. Dan 01/25/2007 at 4:05 PM #

    I think in years to come, if things dont improve (which I believe they will improve), we’ll be discussing whether college players are capable of playing in a system where they are given this much freedom.

    Lowe has to recruit a special kind of player to play here. One that has instincts and that has been allowed to develop them. Grant and Fells were benched for going on instinct last year.

    Ben McCauley’s recent “robot” comments were really telling to me. My thoughts on how the system was run here have gone through an “evolution” as I’ve looked back on the reality that was and listened to comments from players like McCauley and Atsur. I dont think recruits or fans were given what was advertised. I doubt Gavin Grant, Chris Wright, and Courtney Fells would have committed if they knew about the “robots”. The critics are correct in saying there was always hanging line that resembled “there is more around the corner”. I know that sounds harsh. Its not how I mean it. I just dont know a better way to say it.

  20. primacyone 01/25/2007 at 4:05 PM #

    Speaking of experience. Sidney Lowe is getting some solid in-game adjustment experience. Dang nice to see some of that going on again. My opinion, but I’ve been fairly impressed with his/staff’s fundamental in-game coaching/ability to make adjustments. I would rather lose the way we lost last night versus the way we lost every time last year, if you know what I mean. If Sidney ever gets himself a Singletary and Reynolds – look out.

  21. primacyone 01/25/2007 at 4:10 PM #

    ^minus the missed Free Throws of course.

  22. packbackr04 01/25/2007 at 4:29 PM #

    i think the big thing, as someone mentioned above b/w herbs first yr team and this team was that it was loaded with guards… this year, sids first year we have NO guards.

  23. TNCSU 01/25/2007 at 4:31 PM #

    Did anyone other than me think of this strategy with about 3-4 minutes left?? Here goes, we’re down by 7 with 3 minutes to go, and everytime we scored, Reynolds or Singletary puts up a 3 and we end up (-1) on the possession. Several of their big men can’t shoot free throws, I thought we should start fouling with 3-4 minutes, because you just got the feeling there was NO one on our team that was going to stop Singletary or Reynolds from scoring, and as we found out you don’t want to foul them. I know it would have been a gamble, but with 3-4 minutes to play, they were still passing to other guys, by the time it got to 1-2 minutes, only Singletary and Reynolds were getting the ball. I know it would’ve been risky to start fouling so early, but I definitely thought that it would have been a viable option.

  24. redfred2 01/25/2007 at 5:31 PM #

    Dan, Dan, Danny Boy

    I know if I started the post off like that it would get your attention. It usually means all hell is about to break loose, but that was a great first post!!! up there about the two different philosophys and how neither can be just jumped into, overnight. This a huge switch, one that requires the players to have an innate aptitude for the game of basketball. I know Sidney is probably about ready to pull his hair (???) out wondering what in the world is going on, and while we all hope for the best him and the players, we may find that some players just aren’t quite up to what he’s asking them to do. Maybe they never have been, irregardless of what the prior system entailed? That thought makes even more sense if we consider that the prior coaching philosophy was possibly (THE) major factor behind why some of these kids signed on at NCSU to begin with.

  25. Dan 01/25/2007 at 5:39 PM #

    Thanks Red.

    Btw. Packpride just freed up the entire Fowler interview. His comments on the basketball search are shear insanity. Especially where he claims he ran the basketball search exactly how a search firm would have ran it.

    oh yeah: The high school girlfriend thing…. WTF!!!!

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