Three Home ACC Games…

06-07 Basketball General86

…three complete and unequivocal ass kickings. Today’s was probably the worst, because of the listlessness I saw at times. Also, our guys need to learn that you can play hard on D and still play smart. We seem to have two (equally lousy) settings – 1) Don’t even put your hands up; and 2) Bite wildly on any and all ball fakes.

As noted in the game thread comments, Lavin and Mussberger did a very nice job of being fair to Sidney and praising what we have to offer as a program. They even went so far as to say that the cupboard was pretty bare when Sendek left (and completely bereft of PGs), without taking a single shot at NC State or its fans. Were you listening, Jimmy Dykes? That was fair and professional broadcasting.

On the flip side, we have played two ACC road games (where I expected things would get ugly early and stay that way) and came away with a very competitive loss and a blowout win. Of course, it may just be that any good team will kill us, but we can stay with any bad/mediocre team regardless of location. But I’m not sure that caliber of opponent explains things 100% – perhaps our guys are putting too much pressure on themselves playing before the home crowd. Or maybe it’s just a small sample size fluke.

If you want a positive to take away, here’s one – we have fairly consistently handled the competition in our “tier” (i.e., against lower division major conference teams and mid/low majors). As SFN noted earlier this month, this young, undermanned team suffered no embarrassing losses (from a program standpoint). We played an awful Wake team, and won handily. State has hung in against “middle tier” teams like Cincinnati, West Virginia, UVA, and Michigan, winning the home contest. And against “first division” teams like Duke, Alabama, Clemson, and Boston College…we got our asses handed to us.

Help is on the way. We will be a significantly more talented team next season, with 2 at least viable options at PG, and with good depth everywhere else. Perhaps we can move up a tier, and win more than our share against “middle of the pack” teams, with the occasional upset (while continuing to not slip up against weak foes). That likely gets us an NCAA bid in March 2008. The following year (barring an early exodus to the NBA of our frontcourt), we could easily move up yet another tier, and be a legitimate contender.

It’s more likely that there will be additional bumps along the way as Sid learns the ropes of coaching in the ACC, but this optimistic scenario is certainly possible.

About BJD95

1995 NC State graduate, sufferer of Les and MOC during my entire student tenure. An equal-opportunity objective critic and analyst of Wolfpack sports.

06-07 Basketball General

86 Responses to Three Home ACC Games…

  1. redfred2 01/21/2007 at 2:51 PM #

    “It IS about winning… It’s ALWAYS about winning.”

    Then you are in for a very long and frustrating basketball season my friend, if you can’t enjoy anything less than a win.

    Are you telling me that time on the bench, to settle down, think and focus while wishing you were playing, is NEVER warranted? Even experienced players learn by being demanded to play the game correctly, and not by simply repeating their same sloppy habits over and over again.

    I understand that you are defending the coach, but there needs to be definite consequences in place for poor performances. And, maybe there already are, we just haven’t see their effects yet.

  2. NCSUownzJoo 01/21/2007 at 2:55 PM #

    No when I say its always about winning I’m referring to playing the game. You don’t play the game to teach someone a lesson. You play the game to WIN and ONLY to win. Teaching someone a lesson is what practice is for. That’s what running laps is for. There’s multitudes of ways to teach a lesson without putting a game on the line. Coaches use the game to teach a lesson as a LAST resort because you do NOT play the game to teach a lesson, you play the game to WIN.

    And yes, I enjoy watching my team anytime they play, it’s frustrating to lose but I most certainly enjoy watching NCSU play.

  3. redfred2 01/21/2007 at 2:58 PM #

    Woof, the way we play the game of basketball is all that will determine whether this season respectable/acceptable or not. As far as I’m concerned you can throw the win/loss record out the window.

  4. redfred2 01/21/2007 at 3:09 PM #

    “You don’t play the game to teach someone a lesson.”

    Say what??? Maybe not when in a position to really challenge for a conference title or in serious consideration for post season play, which are not in the running for either right now. And, if the player’s don’t start playing with more intensity, we will never be this season.

    So you’re saying if they’re out on the court and not giving the effort on game day, just let ’em play on. I guess all the coach needs to do is keep a good record of how many extra laps they’ll be running next week.

  5. vtpackfan 01/21/2007 at 3:21 PM #

    Rfred^ Yes, certainly there’s more to it then just the wins vs. losses. Coach Lowe comes from a background of Wooten, Valvano, and has up till now been professionally sorrounded by a sport that revolves arround selfish greed, win or get fired. He came back to the college o have some fun again while he is still and good health and can enjoy life to it’s fullest. I we are all very appreiative he chose that route.

    What I’m getting at is that terms like depth, athleticism, experience, and this new saying of “didn’t show up” will constanly be coming up the rest of this season, after a win or loss. I can’t for the life of me think that Coach Lowe knows what to do with these ” high versatility”, “Coachable players” that Herbert recruited. I’m in construction and “high versatility” in this case translates into “jack of all trades, master of none”. News flash, the proud tradition that is NC State basketball was not built by this skill set of players. “Coachable players” blurs along the line of, “company guy, does what he’s told”.

    I’m just trying to remind everyone that neither the players nor coachs are responsible for the polar opposite program being led from last year to the present. It’s obvious at times it is completely awkward, but we can be thankful that it hasn’t been an embarrassment against infrior teams and that a few players seem to be developing at all. I don’t think Sid wants to throw any under the bus, and it’s not like a mulligan for the season is an option. But he needs to get to next years first recruiting class fast and with the aid of a few Herb leftovers, maybe there can be a better effort in following his four main rules on a regular basis.

  6. burnbarn 01/21/2007 at 4:01 PM #

    red.. Graham had 44 IIRC. I was at that game. to end the first half, graham drove along the sideline and threw up a prayer from the corner that hit nothing but net as the horn went off. Graham never broke stride on the way to the locker room.

  7. BoKnowsNCS71 01/21/2007 at 4:51 PM #

    “Agree with the comments from Brent and Lavin”

    They were nice to us. Misery is when the game is so off kilter when:
    a) the announcers are so disinterested and ramble on about other topics including the next epsiode of “Lost” while the game plays on for minutes at a time with no game commentary and
    b) when the kind comments from the announcers start seem more like an apology or a “mercy F%**”

    I was impressed with our free throw shooting. It was excellent and that bodes well. And ironically Duke got fewer fouls called on them and more called against them in a long time. Even had K (a.k.a. Ratface) whining.

  8. Woof Wolf 01/21/2007 at 5:19 PM #

    rf2:

    I agree that all the things you are talking about are important but the wins are too. The wins are about confidence and self esteem. If we could somehow get to the NIT it would mean a lot more to the players than for any of us. It also would give us at least one more game to build skills and character.

    Wins put butts in the seats. If we don’t win some games the place will about half full for the last home game against Wake.

  9. redfred2 01/21/2007 at 5:58 PM #

    burnbarn

    I remember that shot in particular!!! The guy just could not miss!

  10. redfred2 01/21/2007 at 6:19 PM #

    “Wins put butts in the seats.”

    I can’t deny that aspect of it.

  11. BoKnowsNCS71 01/21/2007 at 6:58 PM #

    We are better than I thought and the future looks bright. But not this year.

    As long as the team keeps fighting and never gives up ==the attendance should be about the same.

  12. Gene 01/21/2007 at 8:34 PM #

    the future looks bright

    I just can’t buy into that yet. I probably don’t get to see as many games as some folks here, since I live out of state, but the ones I did see makes me think the future could be bright, if so and so player improves this part of his game and so and so that part of his game. If the peformance of some players doesn’t improve, than the future will won’t be too bright.

  13. Gene 01/21/2007 at 9:11 PM #

    One thought about Trevor Ferguson: Pitt, which is a better team than we are right now and have been the last few years, gave Fergie a scholarship to play for them.

    Ferguson had a scholarship from a good program, in a “power” conference. Herb landing him, when he re-opened his recruitment cannot be entirely faulted. Other programs as good as us or better were interested in him.

    I don’t think you can fault a coach for going after a player, who got a lot of attention from other schools in “power” conferences.

  14. choppack1 01/21/2007 at 9:47 PM #

    “I did. When you don’t have reliable ball handlers, then TO’s lead to easy baskets for the opposition. When you don’t have a PG to provide dribble penetration, you end up with jump shots instead of dishes/dunks. State has “talent”….it is just doesn’t have key positions filled”

    I think you are partly right. I think that we don’t have a 1 or 2. But we’ve certainly got the post and wings covered.

    It’s really hard to judge this team since they’ve been left w/out any true guards. I’m certainly not judging Sid based on this year’s returns – and I was very encouraged by his sideline working of the officiating which I think resulted in the most evenly called Duke-State game in years.

    I don’t think it’s coaching but this is 3rd time I’ve made the round trip to walk out of the gym disappointed. I guess I’d feel better if we were losing like we lost to Cincy – w/ 30 plus to’s but still were in it till the end and were basically just beaten by good quick guards. However, Paulus and Scheyer aren’t speed demons. Good d keeps those guys in check. When Scheyer has only his 2nd game where he’s over 50% from the field, it’s a little disconcerting.

    Oh well, as others have mentioned, you don’t consider the scores and this year looks as good as it could possibly look on paper. I can’t argue w/ that.

  15. DaPackster 01/21/2007 at 11:15 PM #

    There was a movie made about Opie. It’s called White Men Can’t Jump. He looks like a red headed Shaggy also. He looks like anything but a b-ball player.

  16. NCSUownzJoo 01/22/2007 at 6:44 AM #

    Gene: have you seen our freshmen we have coming in for the next two years? JJ Hickson averages over 20 points and damn close to 20 rebounds a game (i think 17). Tracy Smith is averaging over 23ppg. Julius Mays, the PG we have coming in for 2008 is an absolutely sick scorer. I think he hit for 44 in one of his tourny games in a darn good Indiana league. He will be a top 50 player without a doubt. CJ williams is hard to say because he’s not playing in the best league, but I’ve seen the kid play and he has freakish athleticism. Not to mention the 6’5″ transfer PG we got from TN who was also a top 50 last year. With those guys, McCauley and Costner (if he’ll get more aggressive), the future looks VERY bright. Especially if we can pick up a big shot-blocking center for 2008 (maybe Ralph Sampson III).

  17. zahadum 01/22/2007 at 8:54 AM #

    Two small areas of cold comfort. Duke was actually called for a handchecking foul, which happens about once every 3 years. And as best I can recall, they didn’t draw a flop charge all game.

    I knew, like everyone else here, that this season was going to call for a lot of patience. The thing that’s frustrating me the most is that this team couldn’t guard me off the dribble. And that’s not just because of lacking a true point, its that way at all positions. I can’t recall a State team that was as poor at stopping dribble penetration. And it wasn’t just that way against Duke. In the Wake Forest game, the Deacs got into the paint almost at will in the 2nd half, they just couldn’t finish.

    Wish we had the depth to play more of the 1-3-1, because that seems to be our best defense at this point.

  18. Gene 01/22/2007 at 9:10 AM #

    No, I have not seen any games of the recruits coming in. I have read about them. I read about Fells having “sick” athleticism, coming out of high school, being voted Gatorade Player of the Year in Mississippi, and a top 30 recruit. We are now talking about Fells being a benchwarmer next year.

    We cannot compete with Duke, Carolina or other elite programs, like Florida and UCLA, if we do not get the most out of highly rated high school players we do get.

    We cannot have top 20 or top 30 players, who do not contribute as much as we hoped coming out of high school, like Scooter Sherrill and hope to get back to championship contention.

    Hickson and Smith will not challenge Fells for minutes next year, they play different positions. If you think a player, who is top 100ish isn’t talented enough to hold their own against Duke, which people have said in various posts, than if Fells isn’t playing you have only top 100ish players to replace him, next year: Grant, Degand, Johnson, Thomas and maybe Harris.

    We aren’t going to be so loaded on talent in the future that we can afford to have highly rated players not living up to their potential. If Fells can be a player, who people feel isn’t doing everything he can do on the court – partly because this is his first year of getting significant minutes and is dealing with the learning curve from high school to college – than why wouldn’t Hickson or Smith suffer similar problems next year?.

    We aren’t landing an Ohio St.-like recruiting class, which just catapults you to another level. We need to get the most out of players we have and will still have growing pains next year, because we will still be relatively young.

    In ’08-’09, if players haven’t developed, than whatever hopes we have of being competitive that year will not come to fruition.

    Our path to return to championship contention isn’t set in stone and there are plenty of ways we could slip up and not do as well as we hope.

  19. redfred2 01/22/2007 at 9:14 AM #

    Here you go Sidney, we have for you the body a Corvette, a Ford engine, a Chrysler frame, and some miscellaneous parts thrown in for good measure. Now if you can somehow put all of that together, oh, and by the way, we don’t have a steering wheel to guide this thing, but anyway, just do what you can and be ready to run every race on the grand prix circuit in just a few months.

    One more thing, it’s not important that you just get this thing somehow functioning and moving forward, we’re expecting wins, and nothing else matters. See ya.

  20. newt 01/22/2007 at 10:31 AM #

    I thought Lowe did a great job working the refs.

    Not much else good about the game.

  21. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 01/22/2007 at 11:39 AM #

    NCSUownzJoo

    Thanks for you input but it had nothing to do with what I said. I never claimed Sid and his staff where lazy and sat around and drank beer all weekend which seems to be you do on the weekends.

    I stated they didn’t have the team prepared and whatever plan they put together was lacking. What they did didn’t work and I hope they will learn from their mistakes and move forward. My statements where aimed at the team not being ready for the game more so than a failure to execute.

  22. NCSUownzJoo 01/22/2007 at 12:22 PM #

    tct: so tell me, what do you look for to say they were prepared? Just out of curiousity…

    Gene: thats flawed logic, just because Fells (who was recruited for a system OTHER than the one he’s running) isn’t developing as fast or as much as you’d like doesn’t mean that every top-30 player doesn’t. In fact its exactly the opposite. More times than not, a top-30 player DOES develop well and provides much for the team. When you start getting into the top-15 (Hickson) they’re almost always as good as advertised. For every one in the top 30 or top 15 that you can name that didn’t develop like he was supposed to, I can name 5 that did.

  23. Gene 01/22/2007 at 1:15 PM #

    I can name 5 that did.

    Name 5 that did at NCSU in the last 15 years.

    Point I’m trying to make is (1) we will not be super-duper-loaded on talent next year or the year after – we will be where any school in the ACC should be at, therefore getting the most out of the players we have is essential, if we want to compete for a title, (2) our recruiting classes for the next two years are pretty much set, we are not landing so much talent, compared to Carolina and Duke, that we can afford some players to turn out to be busts or underachievers, and (3) any hope for future success is based on a bunch of IF’s. IF we play better defense, IF our offensive rebounding improves, IF Hickson is the real deal, IF Degand and Johnson can give us meaningful minutes as PG’s, etc.

    I am not punching our ticket to the ACC title game or the NCAA’s, in the next couple of years, until these IF’s are answered. Lowe does not have a track record as a college coach. There’s nothing assured about our future, yet.

    Gene: thats flawed logic, just because Fells (who was recruited for a system OTHER than the one he’s running) isn’t developing as fast or as much as you’d like doesn’t mean that every top-30 player doesn’t.

    My comments are not to put down Fells or Lowe, but to give some perspective for the people, who say Fells might be a benchwarmer next year. We cannot afford to have a talented player, like Fells, riding the pine for the next two years, if we want to compete with anybody in this league for a championship. We are not going to be able to plug in players, who are his equal, in terms of natural ability, at SG / SF in the next couple of years. No one we have coming in – Johny Thomas, Farnold Degand, Simon Harris, Dennis Horner, Marques Johnson, and Trevor Ferguson – have the natural ability Fells is supposed to have.

    If people say our starting 5 this year does not have the talent to stick with Duke, because we’re plugging in top100ish players, than how will we have the talent to stick with them next year, when we have to rely on top100ish players, if Fells is sitting on the bench.

    There is an opportunity for us to improve as a program, but nothing is guaranteed. If a talented player like Fells is not developing, it will adversely affect our program, unless we have a diamond in the rough – sort of like Juan Dixon or Lonny Baxter, for Maryland – in Thomas, Harris, Johnson etc.

    Saying Fells will be a benchwarmer next year or not getting significant minutes is not something we should say lightly. It is a serious problem for us.

  24. Gene 01/22/2007 at 1:17 PM #

    Saying Fells will be a benchwarmer next year or not getting significant minutes is not something we should say lightly.

    *EDIT: Saying Fells will be a benchwarmer next year or not be good enough to get significant minutes, is not something we should say lightly.

  25. NCSUownzJoo 01/22/2007 at 2:14 PM #

    Name 5 from NCSU? That isn’t a fair comparison considering we played the weave and heave under Herb and had self-imposed restrictions placed on ourselves while Robinson was a coach. Herb didn’t develop players, everybody knows that. Robinson didn’t have the talent to develop so thats simply not a fair comparison.

    I’ll tell you right now a couple of those IF’s will be answered and should already be. Hickson IS the real deal. Anybody that can pull down 32 boards in one game is the real deal. I don’t care if you’re playing against a middle school, much less a high school team, thats damn impressive. We will play better defense because if you’ve listened to ANY of Lowe’s post/pre-game comments, he ALWAYS stresses defense above everything else and you can bet your ass he’s stressing it in practice. Our rebounding will improve because of Hickson, no doubt about it.

    For the record, I’ve never stated Fells will be a bench warmer next year. Fells simply needs to get more comfortable with the ball and get more aggressive on defense. He’s not used to playing the PG which he’s been doing the past few games and he has been shy on defense because we can’t afford the fouls. When we get more bodies in there and he gets back to his natural position, he’ll get more comfortable with the ball in his hands and he’ll be much more aggressive because we can then afford it.

    And I don’t know if it’s just me or what but you just sound so incredibly negative it’s ridiculous.

    BTW how many top 50 players do we have playing this year? Two and thats Fells and Costner. Next year we’ll have 5, if Fells is included, and we’ll have one top 10-15 in Hickson. That’s quite a big difference.

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