Three Home ACC Games…

…three complete and unequivocal ass kickings. Today’s was probably the worst, because of the listlessness I saw at times. Also, our guys need to learn that you can play hard on D and still play smart. We seem to have two (equally lousy) settings – 1) Don’t even put your hands up; and 2) Bite wildly on any and all ball fakes.

As noted in the game thread comments, Lavin and Mussberger did a very nice job of being fair to Sidney and praising what we have to offer as a program. They even went so far as to say that the cupboard was pretty bare when Sendek left (and completely bereft of PGs), without taking a single shot at NC State or its fans. Were you listening, Jimmy Dykes? That was fair and professional broadcasting.

On the flip side, we have played two ACC road games (where I expected things would get ugly early and stay that way) and came away with a very competitive loss and a blowout win. Of course, it may just be that any good team will kill us, but we can stay with any bad/mediocre team regardless of location. But I’m not sure that caliber of opponent explains things 100% – perhaps our guys are putting too much pressure on themselves playing before the home crowd. Or maybe it’s just a small sample size fluke.

If you want a positive to take away, here’s one – we have fairly consistently handled the competition in our “tier” (i.e., against lower division major conference teams and mid/low majors). As SFN noted earlier this month, this young, undermanned team suffered no embarrassing losses (from a program standpoint). We played an awful Wake team, and won handily. State has hung in against “middle tier” teams like Cincinnati, West Virginia, UVA, and Michigan, winning the home contest. And against “first division” teams like Duke, Alabama, Clemson, and Boston College…we got our asses handed to us.

Help is on the way. We will be a significantly more talented team next season, with 2 at least viable options at PG, and with good depth everywhere else. Perhaps we can move up a tier, and win more than our share against “middle of the pack” teams, with the occasional upset (while continuing to not slip up against weak foes). That likely gets us an NCAA bid in March 2008. The following year (barring an early exodus to the NBA of our frontcourt), we could easily move up yet another tier, and be a legitimate contender.

It’s more likely that there will be additional bumps along the way as Sid learns the ropes of coaching in the ACC, but this optimistic scenario is certainly possible.

About BJD95

1995 NC State graduate, sufferer of Les and MOC during my entire student tenure. An equal-opportunity objective critic and analyst of Wolfpack sports.

06-07 Basketball General

86 Responses to Three Home ACC Games…

  1. redfred2 01/21/2007 at 11:08 AM #

    c6by66

    You hit on some great points. I’ve said it before and especially agree with what you said about guarding way too much against foul trouble. I think maybe all the preparation that was done in that regard is now coming to bite, and the players aren’t picking up the intensity even when they aren’t at risk of fouling out.

    As far as the confidence level went yesterday, I think it took a major hit when Fells missed the early dunk, and then again when Costner bobbled another beautiful pass from McCauley in the lane. Both of those plays were great opportunities to raise team confidence, especially McCauley’s, and they would have definitely gotten the crowd into it and pushing the players. But, they were turnovers instead. For me personally, I felt the air really start going out of our balloon at that point.

    “If Sid feels that way he needs to put his money where his mouth is and send a message by benching the offenders. It might cost us a game in the short term,…”

    Rochester, it might cost us the opportunity to be more competitive in a game, but it will not cost us a win. Those are going very hard to come by, especially if the players in question continue to play like they did yesterday. Somehow a message has to be sent to those guys.

  2. ShootingGuard 01/21/2007 at 11:10 AM #

    “I don’t like the “youf” excuse. Duke started 2 sophomores and a frosh…and they’re a young team – and they totally destroyed us.”

    You do know that Duke’s “youf” are all McD AA’s, right?? We have 1 McD AA, and he didn’t play last year. Big difference in talent and experience both in high school and so far in college between the two teams. Sure Paulus and McBob are sophs like Fells and MacCauley, but Paulus and McBob actually played all year last year while Fells and Mac sat on the pine. Plus, “youf” or no youf, Coach K was smart enough to fill in most of the important slots—like at pg, having shooters, having big guys—as he always does while Coach NoTitles left this program with a bunch of positionless players playing out of position with no point guard to even think about guiding them (Atsur isn’t really a point guard even if he was playing).

    We can all sit around and say,”Oh, they should be doing this” or “they should be doing that” but the reality is that they are sorely missing key parts vitally important to having a real team and, unfortunately, that impacts both your offense and defense in countless ways. Gee, taking bad shots? There is no one on our team who can dribble and get us into our offense or set anyone else up—and everyone on the team knows it and is frustrated by that fact and takes it all into their own hands as a result. Bad defense? Some of that defensive frustration comes from that frustration on the offensive end as most kids these days grow up focused on offense. Most kids don’t learn any defense in high school or AAU ball, so experience contributes as a big factor to this as does our lack of a lockdown on the ball defender at point and a general lack of athletes everywhere else on top of the energy and foul limitations.

    We have 1 McD AA combo forward with no experience, 1 perennial doghouse top 100 wing alternating the point with 1 top 100 wing with no experience, and 1 top 100ish power forward with no experience plus 1 skinny freshman who was not even ranked in the top 100 plus a transfer with zero experience and zero reputation beyond the kool aid crew, and your choice of walk-ons and football players…That is not a recipe for playing great offense, great defense, or winning many games against anyone, much less Coach K and all of his McD AA’s in the 27th year of his hall of fame regime…

    About all you can say about this year is that:

    At least we beat the UNCG’s and UNCW’s and EZU’s of the world…

    At least we beat Wake Forest and shut up some of their fans for at least a little while…

    We will lose several more games, many of them badly…

    Hopefully, we will pull out a few more ACC wins…

    Sendek was very wise to get the hell out of town or he would have been hung this year…

    Lowe had some big balls and should be appreciated for jumping in and trying to save the USS Lee Fowler Titanic…

    The original blogger’s projections and expectations for Lowe Year 2 and Lowe Year 3 are very reasonable…

    We are better than UNCA who is outmanned in every game they play vs BCS conference opponents, but analyzing our play and results the rest of this year is only slightly less useless as a UNCA fan analyzing their results vs Duke or UNC…”Gee, why didn’t Augst dunk over McBob?…What the hell are James and Harrell doing out there?…Who in the hell is guarding Scheyer?…Why don’t they ever call a foul on Paulus or McBob—those guys are all over us!?!?…”

  3. Texpack 01/21/2007 at 11:24 AM #

    ^OwenDorm83 nails it for me. Which doesn’t surprise me since we were HOZERS together back in the day. Even Dean Smith commented when Coach Sloan died that his teams always played hard. I think I took that for granted having grown up watching them.

    I am also taken back to the year when Lefty moved Ernest Graham, a 6’5″ type SG/SM to the point because he was having major problems there. The Charlotte Observer described him as a “human turnover.”

    If Brandon Costner were any softer playing interior defense his nickname would be “Charmin.”

  4. burnbarn 01/21/2007 at 11:35 AM #

    Nice to hear from you SG.

    Not much to add. We’ll be better next year and the year after that. We will take more lumps this season.

  5. NCSUownzJoo 01/21/2007 at 11:47 AM #

    Niemann was SOLID?!?!? What the hell game were you people watching? He missed at LEAST 4 rebounds that came directly to him. He dropped THREE passes that were gimme layups. He had the ball stolen from him 3 times and didn’t score but TWO points. What freakin game are you people watching? I mean Jesus Christ, I know Nieman is a fan-fav and you all want him to do well and he put up decent minutes against the school for the deaf and blind but give me a break! How the hell can you even COMPARE Nieman against Ferguson?? Ferg is twice as fast as Nieman, his dribbles are much better, his passing is at least as good as Nieman and his shot is three times as good as Nieman.

    And what is this idiot talking about “Sid needs to put his money where his mouth is”??? Bench em? Who the **** do you think he’s gonna put in for em? Lets see we bench Costner, Grant, Fells. Who do we put in to play? Nieman, Davis and the other football player thats played a total of 3 minutes the entire year? Oh yeah you’re a freakin genius. He’s trying to WIN games, not make a point. You make a point when you have people to sub-in.

    Also, the person who said “well Duke had a young team too”, they didn’t play bad. Duke also has ALL top-50 players and 3 top-15 players coming out of HS on their team, 4 of which are Burger Boys. Duke has also played in BIG time games with their young talent.

    Two things. You people keep crying about our team, how about you LEARN WHAT THE **** YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT, before you start criticizing people. The majority of you don’t have a CLUE how to play competitive basketball and are sitting here ripping on our guys like you’re experts and then want to give a walk-on who doesn’t know his head from his ass a starting position. Thats like me going to a CEO of a fortune 500 company and saying, you know I took a couple classes in college about business and I think you’re doing a piss-poor job, you need to do it this way. Shut up and let our COACH, coach…

  6. redfred2 01/21/2007 at 11:47 AM #

    Texpack

    I can’t really remember, it was something like 34 or 44 pts, but Ernie Graham did light us up one time back in the day. He was unconscious in that game.

  7. redfred2 01/21/2007 at 11:52 AM #

    ^^Well now, there’s someone who can’t handle criticism, for you.

  8. NCSUownzJoo 01/21/2007 at 11:53 AM #

    There’s nothing wrong with criticism… Criticism is fine when its CONSTRUCTIVE…. not destructive… Calling our player Opie??? You think that’s constructive?

  9. redfred2 01/21/2007 at 11:58 AM #

    Joo, no I do not.

    But, winning ballgames may not be the important battle that’s being fought right now. Some of these kids need to get their heads into the game and if playing few FB players will make them focus harder on why they’re suiting up, then I say do it.

  10. SWEETS 01/21/2007 at 12:04 PM #

    VA wolf I sit courtside and ferg SUCKS!

  11. legacyman 01/21/2007 at 12:32 PM #

    One reason some of you are blasting Trevor is that some posters were earlier peeing in their britches waiting for him to become eligible and were predicting that he was the answer to our PG troubles. Start getting some reality about our situation. The former coach left us in a mess and all of us together have to work through it and give Sidney a chance to get some more bodies in here to play traditional basketball. We don’t have many ACC players at this point…they may keep improving and become that caliber in the future but right now we are lacking.

    Many of us stated early on that we knew the situation and would hang on while giving Sidney time to heal the wounds. Now some are acting like rats leaving a ship. If that is the extent of your loyalty then go ahead and jump. As for me I will be hanging onto any type of floating object until the lifeboats arrive if the ship takes on much water.

    We will right this ship but it won’t be done overnight and our 18-22 year old kids will have some struggles trying to take more defeats than they want.

  12. Gene 01/21/2007 at 12:48 PM #

    Well without Fergie on the bench, who’d be our sixth man? Nieman? Albritton? Fergie’s better than both of those players. Sid didn’t have time to pick up good JuCo transfers, so I’m glad we have Fergie this year.

    He’s a better alternative than walk-ons on the bench.

    He’s supposed to have a pretty good perimeter shooter, though he’s scared to shoot. I think it’s the most frustrating thing about watching him play, because I know when he’s in the game our offense is basically 4 against 5, because he is not threat to attempt a shot, even if he’s open.

    Anyway, this year is going to be what it is.

    This will be a frustrating year and I hope next year we will play with more intensity. I hope the druthers we are having with defense is because of youth / depth / personnel problems and not our coaching staff’s inability to teach / emphasize defense in practice.

    So far there’s no way to know.

    And what is this idiot talking about “Sid needs to put his money where his mouth is”??? Bench em? Who the ** do you think he’s gonna put in for em? Lets see we bench Costner, Grant, Fells. Who do we put in to play?

    When Fells hung on the rim, after missing his second dunk, I could see him getting benched. That was plainly a stupid move. This year is about developing solid players for the future. If we win it’s a bonus. If players are not developing because they know they can’t be replaced, than maybe playing them no matter what – irregardless of what putting the walk-ons in would do – is not the best policy

    We’re all looking at next year’s team with rose colored glasses. If having inexperienced top 100 players isn’t enought to be competitive with Duke this year, than plugging in another top 100ish player in Degand or Johnson, for Fells, for example, might not give us the boost in the talent we seem to need, with any set of 5 players on the court.

    Fells has too much talent for us to think we can get by, with him not developing to his potential. He was a top 30 rated player coming out of high school. We aren’t going to load up on so many top 50 players that we can afford those top 50 players, we do get, to not develop.

    If starting Davis, Nieman or Ferguson is what it would take to get Fells to understand he can be playing better, than whatever drop in talent we have to start the game is worth the trade off.

    If we want to be competitive with the rest of the league by ’08-’09, we have to maximize the potential of all the players on our roster, especially the gifted athletes, we do get, who are ranked top 50 coming out of high school.

  13. VaWolf82 01/21/2007 at 1:14 PM #

    but I didn’t see a team that was “out-talented” yesterday afternoon.

    I did. When you don’t have reliable ball handlers, then TO’s lead to easy baskets for the opposition. When you don’t have a PG to provide dribble penetration, you end up with jump shots instead of dishes/dunks. State has “talent”….it is just doesn’t have key positions filled.

  14. redfred2 01/21/2007 at 1:14 PM #

    legacyman

    I’m guilty of one thing you said there, and that is being overly optimistic about Ferguson. I haven’t blasted him once though, he is out there and he’s trying.

    I wasn’t expecting to beat Duke yesterday, but even as overwhelmed and out manned as we were, I wanted to see more effort from our players. Duke’s defense is notorious and even they had only allowed half of the points we were able to score, that makes lack of effort from our players on the defensive end even more inexcusable. In a game like yesterday’s, and when you’re that ineffective on offense, it is mandatory to ABSOLUTELY give your all on the defensive end, irregardless of the score. We just did not.

    But I do have a very firm grip why we are struggling at this time and I know that every game is a lesson for almost everyone involved. I also know that they can, and they will, get better.

  15. ShootingGuard 01/21/2007 at 1:19 PM #

    “but I didn’t see a team that was “out-talented” yesterday afternoon.

    I did. When you don’t have reliable ball handlers, then TO’s lead to easy baskets for the opposition. When you don’t have a PG to provide dribble penetration, you end up with jump shots instead of dishes/dunks. State has “talent”….it is just doesn’t have key positions filled.”

    BINGO

  16. vtpackfan 01/21/2007 at 1:32 PM #

    Lowe’s Rules:
    1) Play hard
    2) Play smart
    3) Play together
    4) Have Fun

    Let’s face it some rules were broken yesterday and there’s not much need IMO appointing blame to certain violator’s and specific instances. If you saw the game there was an atmosphere of equal opportunitty offended by all Pack participants. What I want to possibly delve into is the subject pertaining to #4 on the short rules list. I have my opinion of what Coach Lowe is intending to say here about “having fun”, and why it may be the hardest rule for this seasons team to follow. Here it goes…

    1) Winning is fun, ever noticed that? Could by a sticking point for this season, so moving on while trying not to point out the obvious quite so much.
    2) The “last year things felt like we were robots” line is a slippery slope. Sure it’s fun to have your freedom now that Coach Matrix is gone, but can you young men be responsible for yourselves now that you don’t have somebody telling you were to go and how to do everything. As all can attest in witnessing some matter of day to day life, going from one extreme to another isn’t as easy as it seems. How much fun are the Iraqis having?
    3)Part of Lowe’s speach after making his rules public went something like this. “I’m going to let these young men make decision’s out there, they’re going to be able to play without looking over their shoulder every minute expecting some form of discipline for making mistakes”. I para-phrased it, but we all remeber the just of it, and I recall it tying into the part about having fun and playing basketball as it should be played. Without fear. This is a catch 22 for Lowe because sitting Fells for hanging on the rim after his second missed dunk attempt of the game seems a no brainer (putting Nieman or Fergie in for him takes alot more consideration, since we are still talking about Div. 1 ACC basketball). My belief so far is that Coach Lowe is trying not to go back on too much of his original explaination of his basketball philosophy.
    I beleive he is coaching to win every game, but I also tend to think he rejects the idea of scraping his basketball philosophy to mold one to specially fit this particular cast. I know some may argue that things could be changed to increase the technique and standard of play without encroaching much on Coach Lowe’s style of play, and I can respect that. But honestly folks, how much can he really do to improve this team right now? Let’s just for a minute pretend that the list loosely apply’s to die hard Pack followers as well. Can someone come up with someting resembling “having fun” following the Pack other then picking on Trevor’s appearence.

  17. Woof Wolf 01/21/2007 at 1:40 PM #

    Putting yesterday’s game behind us I’m actually pleased with our 11 – 7 record. We have three games left on our schedule that I won’t say we should win, but we do have a very good chance of winning. They are Virginia on Wednesday, at Miami and Wake here at the end of February.

    If we win all three of those and steal one more we would be 15 -14 going into the ACCT. IIRC most of us experts were saying before the season started that would be a very good, almost unattainable, result.

    Some of us even said that 11 – 18 would be acceptable. We are already at my minimum limits for an acceptable season but I still believe we can get to 15 – 14. Let’s hang behind Sid and the guys.

    Hell if Engin comes back and stays healthy we may steal 2 or 3.

  18. redfred2 01/21/2007 at 1:54 PM #

    vt

    I equate the “fun” part not with winning, but rather playing hard, and being able to take away some pride in the way you struggled to make a difference in any ballgame. The players should be able to look back on small battles within the games, single plays, or defensive stops, and learn while having fun thinking back on them. The big check in the win column is not what it’s all about right now, not for the university, the players, or the fans, and I hope the coaches realize that.

    We want to see players being forced to play hard, even if the results involve a forty point loss, versus a ten point loss. These players need to know that even when facing a more talented team like Duke, the kind effort we witnessed yesterday will not be tolerated.

  19. Woof Wolf 01/21/2007 at 2:18 PM #

    Except for yesterday I’ve had fun watching watchig Ben, Brandon and Dennis develope. If you remeber the early games and then look at the way they played in the Wake game, the change is amazing. Also our coach is learning too.

    Also it’s a lot more fun watching Sidney’s press conferences and the Sunday show. After suffering through herb’s and Chuck’s who wouldn’t enjoy that?

  20. NCSUownzJoo 01/21/2007 at 2:32 PM #

    fred I have to disagree… It IS about winning… It’s ALWAYS about winning.

    Also, you don’t develop players by sitting them on the bench and letting senior walk-ons and football players play. You develop players by PLAYING them and making them suffer through experiences like yesterday. The only thing they learn by sitting on the bench is “i better not screw up or else I’m going to get sat again”.

  21. Rochester 01/21/2007 at 2:34 PM #

    Thanks for the “idiot” comment. I’ll try not to take it personally because you seem high strung. I disagree that we have to go through the season with zero consequences for lackadaisical and/or stupid play. How many times do we have to hear in the post-game presser that Sid’s unhappy with the effort of so-and-so? How about holding so-and-so out for the first five minutes of the next game if nothing else is working to inspire them? Remember a couple years ago when Julius Hodge was held out of the beginning of a game and then hit the court like a man possessed. He was embarrassed and motivated by the punishment.

    Sometimes you have to think big picture. Maybe by sending a message for ten minutes you can inspire better effort for the next ten games.

    Let’s say you were a computer programmer in a small company and you were the most knowledgeable guy on the staff. Every day you came to work late. In your team meeting your boss tossed out general statements like “we all need to get here on time and give it our best effort,” but nothing more ever happened to you. No consequences. Would you suddenly start showing up on time? I doubt it.

  22. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 01/21/2007 at 2:35 PM #

    Agree with the comments about Lavin and Brent. They did a very good job yesterday.

    I’m a big fan of Sidney but it was clear that he did not have the team prepared yesterday. This isn’t to say that I expect to beat Duke this year but the team was not prepared for the game. I don’t by into blaming the players for their lack of ‘execution’ rather I blame the guys making about a combined million dollars for the complete lack of a game plan. The ‘execution’ explination is the coaches excuse when they are saying ‘don’t blame me I had a great plan the kids just didn’t do what I asked them to do’. I didn’t hear Sid make this excuse but Herbert was a grade A ‘class act’ by blaming the players all the time for not playing well. I would much prefer a coach say ‘I didn’t have the guys ready’ rather than ‘they just didn’t execute my wonderful, unbeatable system.’

  23. Rochester 01/21/2007 at 2:36 PM #

    To clarify, I’m not talking about holding guys out for messing up a play here or there. I’m talking about lack of effort. As for Ferguson, he may not be blessed with talent and it hurts to watch him play, but at least he’s trying.

  24. NCSUownzJoo 01/21/2007 at 2:36 PM #

    And for the record, i’m aware that some of you think that the players thinking “i better not screw up or else i’m going to get sat again” is a good thing. But I’d be willing to bet you’ve never played a competitive sport in your life, if you think that. It’s fine to do that once but when you do it too often, a player loses confidence, becomes timid, stops being aggressive and starts to play to not make mistakes rather than to win and thats the WORST thing you can do to a player

  25. NCSUownzJoo 01/21/2007 at 2:41 PM #

    Rochester what do you think Lowe does in practice? Do you think he doesn’t rip into the guys who aren’t playing hard? You think he just gives them a pat on the back and says keep doing what you’re doing? That’s complete lunacy. Of course he’s talking to them, of course he’s trying to motivate them, but he’s not going to do it in front of national television!!

    tcthdi: Yeah, I’m sure sidney sat on his ass all week and drank beer and watched tv like most of us do and didn’t come up with a game plan. I’m sure he just gave everybody the week off and didn’t make anybody come in and practice that game plan. I’m sure that Lowe is so incredibly lazy and stupid that he just said, “you know what, we’re playing DUKE this week. I think i’ll just take this week off and not do anything”… Get a clue man

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