Technician to Stafford: Improve or Retire

Campus News General NC State Administration82

Please DO NOT disregard this blog entry as some non-sports entry in which you don’t have any interest. If you are, were, or may be a student at NC State at some point in your life, then the topic of “The Student Experience” at NC State should be of extreme importance to you.

Unfortunately, the quality of “The Student Experience” has not been of extreme importance to the ‘good folks’ at NC State for quite a long time and Technician is writing about the topic in a must read piece.

They don’t hesitate to place the spotlight on Vice Chancellor of Student Affairs, Tom Stafford. Under Stafford’s reign, NC State has seen the end of institutional traditions such as student campouts, The Lawn Party and Wolfstock while other key social elements to the student experience like Hillsborough Street and the Greek system of deteriorated to near death. (Just to name a few)

We are going to have have more on this later in the day…but my morning is swamped. I wanted to get this on the blog asap in hopes some of our best readers would share their thoughts and insights on NC State’s continuously dwindling student experience.

In short, NC State is becoming a large commuter school.

Please share some of your comments, thoughts and insights.

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Campus News General NC State Administration

82 Responses to Technician to Stafford: Improve or Retire

  1. camo-pack98 01/30/2007 at 7:03 PM #

    i think the main driver is economics. it is more financially profitable to become a commuter school, reduces infrastructure cost in dorms borne by the university, increases food/drink sales, parking tickets, parking permits, more students, etc….

  2. Wxwolf 01/30/2007 at 7:14 PM #

    Really great discussion, and I think its a vital one to have if we want to ensure that today’s students feel as much a connection to NCSU when they leave as we all do.

    I think one the major factors in the downfall of campus life at NCSU was the lack of new building of on campus housing during the late 1980s and 1990s. As the university continued to grow, the capacity of the dorms didn’t, and students were forced to move off campus. The timing of this really coincided with the sprawling out of Raleigh in the 1990s, and cheap housing sprung up all over the place, most of it south of campus along Avent Ferry Road, Tryon Road and out on Western Blvd. The fact that just about all college students have cars now made this kind of spreading out possible.

    The development of Centennial Campus during the 1990s slowly pulled more graduate students and faculty away from the Hillsborough Street corridor, and now even more undergraduates have classes there now. That really pulled the one last reliable business (lunch) away from a lot of the restaurants left on H-boro. I also remember reading how the loss of home basketball games on campus after the men moved out of Reynolds affected restaurants especially on Hillsborough Street. They ended up losing 10-15 nights a year of really solid business.

    After moving away from NCSU after nearly 9 years there, I saw a lot change from 1996-2005, but I do fear the move toward more a commuter feel to the place has really taken hold. I’m not sure if that horse can be put back in the barn, but something needs to be done to give these kids the kind of life-long connection to NCSU that students at other universities have.

  3. Gene 01/30/2007 at 8:12 PM #

    When I was a kid, I lived in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Went back there a few years ago, with my cousin, who’s a U of M grad, and what struck me is how much more upscale the area around the campus became, since the early 1980’s. I wasn’t sure if college kids could afford to go to some of the places there, but it was a nice feel. You had good restaurants, which attracted 20 somethings for a night out.

    I live relatively close to Princeton, as well, and main campus drag also has upscale venues. There are still your used CD / Record stores, bookstores, but there are also some very good restaurants, which are more pricey than what I could’ve afforded in college, but they do draw folks in from outside of campus.

    This gives a really lively feel to the area. In spring you can see young families bringing their kids in to window shop, eat out, or just people out on the street, and students hanging around as well.

    The place doesn’t go dead during summer either.

    Some of the restaurants and shops are actually in very nicely done strip-mall-like areas, which could only get built if the city of Princeton had planned to do some development in the area. It’s not just restaurants popping up in old storefronts off of Nassau Street.

    Raleigh, as a city, really could use a “strip” where people can got to, hang around, and have a variety of activities to keep themselves occuppied, not just at night, but on a nice spring day as well.

    One natural attraction, in the area, is Pullen Park and if you build things around Pullen Park to keep people from piling back into their cars and driving home, after they go there, it can only improve the city, in my opinion.

    Rebuilding Hillsborough St / Western Blvd. areas around NCSU doesn’t mean to go back to what it was in the 1970’s or 1980’s, but can really fit in to what the city is trying to do to spruce up the downtown, get people to go to downtown and generally keep the area inside the Beltline from slipping.

    but the development environment must be friendly as well.

    In the 22+ years, since my family moved to Raleigh, I consider your statement to be a glaring contradiction in terms. In Wake County, the development environment is hyper-friendly, or else you wouldn’t have so much growth and development.

    I can’t imagine a developer not getting what they wanted out of a city council in Wake County, or the Wake County board of commissioners.

    If developers are having fits in working with or around NCSU’s campus, this raises serious questions about hold ups being caused by NCSU’s Administration.

  4. choppack1 01/30/2007 at 8:57 PM #

    Gene – It’s not a Wake County thing – I’m not talking about Wake County – I’m talking about Hillsborough Street specifically, and the Western Blvd are in general.

    Heck, how many McDonald’s have you ever seen go out of business? My impression from rumor’s more than anything else was that the “landlords” on Hillsborough Street were not friendly in either prices or options for would-be entrepenuers.

    I’d like to hear some from current students to see their thoughts.

  5. McWufPacker06 01/30/2007 at 9:50 PM #

    That was a rundown section where that McDonald’s was choppack1 – I don’t know if you live in Raleigh (so I don’t want to talk down to you) – but that area is being highly developed right now (around Peace St) and there is currently a high rise Condo that has just been completed beside Mellow Mushroom. I just graduated last May and have always loathed Stafford so I haven’t had time today to gather my thoughts. The first year I was at State we did have a “wolfstock” on the IM fields but I didn’t go b/c there was no alcohol allowed and the bands weren’t that exciting. As far as I know many of the traditions that so many Alum loved have been abolished happilly by Tom S. The main complaint I have is with Campout in which the students can’t have Fires/Heaters and the ticketing procedure which he doesn’t have direct control over. You sign up for campout online now, then you pretty much just camp out “for fun”. It isn’t controlled by who shows up first for campout since you are randomly assigned slots through the ticket system before the event and just because you are first in line doesn’t mean you recieve the best tickets either – but lets not talk about student tickets, that opens a whole other can of worms.

    In response to questions about student housing, I was an RA for 2 years and many of the creating unity problems stem from a University Housing system that just doesn’t operate efficently. The are continuing to build student “resident halls” (they don’t want you to refer to them as dorms) just look up Wolf Village on the ncsu website. Thats all I have for now, but maybe I’ll add more tomorrow. Fire questions at me if you want, since I’m not far removed from the university.

  6. CarnifeX 01/30/2007 at 10:08 PM #

    I lived under Valentine Properties whom, if I’m not mistaken, owns many of the properties on Hillsborough Street (I lived on Chamberlain, right next to the/a crackhouse, AWESOME!).

    My roommate knew a few of the tenants/shopowners on hillsborough and all of them had to vacate as a result of yearly rent increases (zippy mart, schoolkids records, Q Shack, I believe kinko’s and Starbucks left as well). A few of these places have moved further down Hillsborough to a newer district , leaving the places with history vacant and a constant reminder of what all this talk boils down to. THE ALMIGHTY DOLLAR!

  7. highstick 01/30/2007 at 10:33 PM #

    Thank God, there’s still a Char Grill!!!!!!!!!!!! Some traditions never die!

    Anybody remember the Wolves Den on Hillsborough??? That was before Daryl’s. Jim Thornton’s!

  8. choppack1 01/30/2007 at 11:06 PM #

    mcWolfpacker06 – …I’m glad they have a mellow mushroom there and condos – that’s exactly the kind of development they need. We got one downtown here in Winston and it’s done as much as any business to get people downtown.

    Wait a second – isn’t that on Peace/Wade/ not on Hillsborough Street??

  9. Slader4881 01/30/2007 at 11:31 PM #

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vL19q8yL54

    PLEASE CHECK THIS OUT

  10. Slader4881 01/30/2007 at 11:31 PM #

    YES THAT ADRIAN WILSON

  11. packwolf 01/31/2007 at 8:13 AM #

    Suggestion:
    Create a petition/list of grievances/demands, from the students AND alums.
    Censure the Faculty Senate, board of trustees and administration for failure to perform their collective duties in a responsible manner.
    The board of trustees for specificly selecting a faculty member with no qualifications for the pre-iminent position within the un.; the chancellor. This selection only served to re-instate the Monteith “mind-set and “good old boy” mentality of running the Un. for the sole purpose of pleasing the faculty at the expense of the students and under graduate studies.
    This mentality has created an atmosphere of anti-student, anti-social and anti-athletic policies that have destroyed the “Greek system” and all of the social traditions of the University as well as continually instituting gestapo style policies that place an emphasis on denying students an opportunity to enjoy any form of social frivolity on campus.
    Our athletic teams continue to reside in the cellar thanks to this anti-athletic mindset.
    Graduation rates that result in a 50% graduation rate in 5-6 years [for a four year degree] are an embarrassment that should have been properly addressed decades ago.
    Both students [now avg. above 4.0 GPA for in-coming frosh] and athletes deserve an opportunity to succeed in 4-4 1/2 years. The existing system and faculty mind set only serves to minimize the accomplishments and hard work of the student body and results in an undeserved reputation as a second tier academic institution.
    A 75% graduation rate in 4 1/2 years should be established as an immediate goal with total accountability by faculty and administration.
    Professors who fall below a certain threshold, should be banned from research activities untill such time that undergraduate responsibilities are met.
    NO ONE should be allowed to teach/lecture, who is not fluent in intelligble English. Foreign grad students who speak broken English with un-intelligble accents should not be placed in a position to teach/lecture, EVER.
    This lack of minimal communication skills makes a mockery of the concept of education. The fact that this problem has not beeen addressed in any manner over the past 50 years only serves to illustrate the lack of responsibility by the faculty/adm.
    The Un. has consistently placed a priority on providing golf courses and faculty clubs for under performing faculty and staff and undone all of the good work accomplished by our previous chancellor; Dr. Fox.
    The mere fact that it would be neccessary to offer specific remedies only serves to illustrate that the existing lack of awareness and competence of the faculty and administration.
    The students and alums are vehemently opposed to the direction that our current administration is pusuing; the creation of a suit case, community college; void of any social activities on the Un. campus.
    Students and alums passionately desire to see a total university experience available to the current and future students. This is neccessary in order to effectively compete for the most qualified students and provide existing students some forms of entertainment after the rigorous academic demands of undergraduate studies.
    Such a petition, if signed by thousands of students and alums, should be presented to all three responsible organizations: the board of trustees, faculty senate and chancellor’s office.
    Copies should be provided to local papers and the student newspaper.
    Should a successfull petition be ignored without meaningfull responses; actions such as public protests should be instituted.
    The existing institutions have failed miserably in their responsibility to provide a complete, fair and meaningfull college experience for the students of NCSU.

  12. TopTenPack 01/31/2007 at 8:52 AM #

    Working with real numbers:

    http://www2.acs.ncsu.edu/UPA/peers/current/ncsu_peers/retengrad.htm

    3 in 10 freshmen will graduate within 4 years.
    6 in 10 freshmen will graduate within 5 years.
    7 in 10 freshmen will graduate within 6 years.
    1 in 10 freshmen do not make it to their freshmen year.

    As an old alumni told me before going to NC State, UNC is hard to get into, NC State is hard to get out of.

    I think setting and obtaining a goal of 75% graduation rate at 4.5 years would be good, but this needs to be balanced with the quality of the education.

  13. Mike 01/31/2007 at 9:19 AM #

    McWolfpacker06 – that McD’s is on Peace, and a bad part of town. The Mc’D’s we are all talking about was on Hillsborough, right in the heart of campus. It was great – was actually an old movie theater and had the movie theme incorporated into the design. Architecturally, it was probably the finest McD’s anywhere in the world.

    High rent and unfriendly landlords closed it. The owners were big Wolfpack supporters, and they own several area McD’s. Fred and his wife supported the small sports with time and personal involvement, food, and money. Driving people like this away is what is wrong with the U today.

  14. Sam92 01/31/2007 at 9:24 AM #

    packwolf those are great points.

    breaks my heart, too. i’d like nothing better than a board of trustees and chancellor committed to those goals, but i’m somewhat pessimistic — how to go about changing the sorry governance that is already in place?

    maybe we just keep making noise — that did work to make a change in both of the big head coaching positions within the last year.

    the petition is a great idea — i wonder what the alumni association can do on this score?

  15. CarnifeX 01/31/2007 at 9:32 AM #

    PackWolf, I agree with everything you said, except the golf course thing. We need a campus course.
    We have a major in Professional Golf Management, with no course to call home.

  16. choppack1 01/31/2007 at 9:39 AM #

    Mike – Yep, you obviously know the one I was talking about! It had 2 big screen TVs…Good place for a student to find cheap food. Then the building sat abandonded for several years.

    Do they own the one on Western too?

  17. Gene 01/31/2007 at 9:39 AM #

    Gene – It’s not a Wake County thing – I’m not talking about Wake County – I’m talking about Hillsborough Street specifically, and the Western Blvd are in general.

    I was making a general observation. Raleigh is very friendly towards developers, so the idea developers aren’t given support to work in and around NCSU’s campus seems a bit odd to me.

    I wasn’t aware of the landlords, owning shops, on Hillsborough street bumping up rents and running businesses out of there.

    Like others have said, if you can’t build up Hillsborough street, than work on the Western Blvd. side of campus and make it a place people all over the city would want to come.

  18. Wxwolf 01/31/2007 at 10:14 AM #

    “Professors who fall below a certain threshold, should be banned from research activities untill such time that undergraduate responsibilities are met.”

    While this is a laudable goal, it will NEVER happen at a research I university. For better or worse, at a research university like NCSU, great teaching isn’t going to get you tenure while great research is guaranteed to. Given the hefty 40% overhead the university takes off the top of research grants, you can see why the emphasis is put on research.

    “Foreign grad students who speak broken English with un-intelligble accents should not be placed in a position to teach/lecture, EVER.”

    I know in my department (MEAS), most if not all of the TA slots were given to grad students who were fluent in English. However, this probably isn’t possible in other departments where the majority of grad students are foreign. Its also not fair in some ways to those grad students who *do* speak English well, who are forced to TA and slow down their research progress in grad school relative to those students who get RA funding only.

  19. CarnifeX 01/31/2007 at 10:22 AM #

    Again, the dollar bill rules, and at a Research I university there is no extra dollars coming in from being a good teacher, the dollars are coming from getting grants and doing more research. So it behooves NCSU to hire good researchers first, and if they can get a couple that can teach, thats an added bonus.

  20. nycfan 01/31/2007 at 10:43 AM #

    As an aside, it is kind of funny that NCSU relies on data from USN&WR regarding its own graduation rates.

    The thing is, though, once you become a commuter school, I think it becomes very hard to undo the change. State isn’t there yet (well, they weren’t the last time I looked), but it is too bad if the University is really heading in that direction. It seems with so many architects, engineers and planners, State would be able to make some clear-cut decisions and get development moving. Is it possible that the entire University will eventually migrate away from the original campus?

  21. Gene 01/31/2007 at 10:51 AM #

    Grad student TA’s are doing what they have to do. Some speak understandable English, but maybe not as well as or to the liking of a native English speaker. I know folks who complained about a Chem. Lab TA’s English, who was from Pakistan, though I didn’t have a problem with her English. Some folks are just touchy about anyone speaking English with an unfamiliar accent. What qualifies as “fluent” is very subjective.

    I know in my department (MEAS)

    That was my department as well, and it is a very small department, compared with others. After a few years in the department you were on pretty friendly terms with some of the grad students – hang out with them, invite them to or get invited by them to parties, etc., which I don’t think is the case in other departments. There wasn’t really a barrier between you and your TA’s, after awhile.

  22. class of 74 01/31/2007 at 12:31 PM #

    To have a noted school of design and to not have a vibrant central core campus is that not ridiculous? Honestly, the campus has no continuity or sense of being a campus whatsoever, and without that you quickly lose the college atmosphere regardless of what is done. The Centennial Campus has the look and feel of another office park in the RTP area not a college campus. You could sponsor a marathon to get from Centennial to the RBC/CF and back. At this point I feel the cow has left the barn and there seems little chance of her return anytime soon on this issue.

  23. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 01/31/2007 at 1:05 PM #

    The Moscow like efforts to stop Brent Road about 5 years ago was a cut that this city won’t be able to heal. Along with NC State the city put cops all over the place with their Soviet checkpoints treating the NC State college community as criminals. A one night a year bash is something that takes place in college towns all over the US. In Raleigh the answer was to put a ‘record’ on as many students as possible. Most of it done under the guise of the usual ‘keeping the roads safe for the children’ or some such bs.

  24. Mike 01/31/2007 at 2:29 PM #

    Choppack, at one point they owned Western Blvd location also, but I think they sold that one too.

  25. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 01/31/2007 at 4:33 PM #

    One of the few Mickey D’s to close from what I hear. I think the lack of a drive-thru as well as the parking situation didn’t help matters either. When I was a young kid it was a XXX theater if memory serves and prior to that it was one of the only movie theaters in Raleigh. Now it is a bookstore.

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