ANOTHER Team Has Season Best 3 Point Shooting vs Pack

06-07 Basketball General111

Clemson 87
NC State 76

Some quick bytes on the game…although they are not very different from any other loss this season:

* It is a broken record. Another basketball game…ANOTHER team who ‘found a way’ to shoot LIGHTS OUT from three point territory against the Wolfpack. Clemson ultimately shot 10-19 for 52% from behind the arc.

* At one point tonight the announcers made a comment about how “confidence” can help a team with their shooting. I wonder how your opponent’s inability or unwillingness to play defense impacts your shooting?

* It is not just a ‘coincidence’ that Wofford, UNC-G, ECU, UNC-W, Cincinnati, West Virginia and now Clemson have all produced fantastic shooting nights against the Wolfpack. We aren’t going to harp on the loss too much because we all know what is expected of this team this year and they are living up to the low expectations. The opportunity for the Pack to potentially nab an NIT bid this year is fleeting very quickly for the Pack.

* State continues to shoot very well from the field (and the free throw line). Tonight the Pack shot 54% from the field and 81% from the line. The problem lies in the fact that the Pack doesn’t get enough shots because of turnovers; while simultaneously allowing the opponent extra shots on offensive rebounds.

* Are we SURE that it Engin Atsur wouldn’t accept a redshirt this season and stick around another year?

* Courtney Fells should enjoy his time on the court this year because if he doesn’t show MAJOR improvement in his play on both ends of the floor then he may experience significantly dwindling playing time over the next few years. He could serve a super role as an “athlete” coming off the bench in the future, but most ACC teams don’t have spots for “shooting guards” that can’t shoot, have trouble making fundamental passes (ever heard of the BOUNCE PASS?), and don’t have a desire to play perimeter defense.

* I keep hearing from the television announcers that Trevor Ferguson is supposedly a great shooter. He probably is a great shooter; it is just hard to tell since he never shoots. What value does he bring if he can’t get a shot off in a game?

* To be honest, Ferguson is contributing EXACTLY what I expected of him. This isn’t a dig at him. Just honest analysis. You never saw SFN make any kind of a big deal (or much a mention) of his ‘absence’ before he was eligible. Can’t believe that Sendek truly spent a scholarship on this kind of transfer. Scratch that. Yes I can. Marques Johnson, Farnold Degand, Julius Mays, CJ Williams (and even Fells) presence on the roster at various points in the next three years don’t bode well for Ferguson in the future. If Costner moves to the 3F and Grant to the 2G to make room for Hickson to start next year (therefore moving Fells to the bench) then we may never see Ferguson on the court after this season.

* I have my eye on the official statistics tonight as I am interested to see how they categorize turnovers. I have periperally observed some potential ‘home cooking’ as it relates to the allocation of turnovers on State’s roster. I DVR’d the game (that I doubt very much that I will review) and randomly noted at least six turnovers that should be attributed to Gavin Grant tonight. (That is being VERY KIND) We will see how they come in.

* State opens ACC play with three losses for the first time since 1999-2000, when we went on to finish 5-11 in the conference. That is odd. Jimmy Dykes told us that Herb Sendek “did nothing but win” in Raleigh. 1999-2000? Sheesh. That was FOUR YEARS into Sendek’s tenure? That doesn’t jive with urban legend.

* Don’t make the mistake of getting too mad at the Pack for this loss just because it was to ‘Clemson’. This Tiger team currently holds the #6 spot in the Sagarin computer and is a legitimate NCAA Tournament and Top 20 team this year.

Update:

You generally KNOW that you must be at least CLOSE TO RIGHT when so many other people have the exact same thoughts as you do in realtime as things unfold. The following are comments from some of our readers from the the game entry that are SPOT ON and deserve elevation here. I elevate them because I have had all of the exact same thoughts and couldn’t agree with them more:

It is very hard to compete in the ACC when you have the worst perimeter defense in the history of mankind, and nobody can handle the ball adequately except your center.

I will revise my predictions – this could very easily be a 1-15 or 2-14 team in the ACC. I am exceptionally thankful for the Michigan win (our “one shining moment”, it seems) and the lack of an embarrassing OOC loss.

None of this is an indictment of Lowe. The skill set we need him to show is not necessarily being able to tread water with a vastly undermanned squad. We need to see what he can do with bullets in his gun. the next 2 years, we’ll see that.

What is most frustrating to me is the lack of fire in some of these guys. It translates in the careless turnovers and terrible fundamental defensive play. This is not the type of team I enjoy watching. I want us to be a fundamentally sound team that plays its ass off on the defensive end. We are as porous as can be there — guys just turning and laying it in with nobody helping out. I guess it all just sort of adds up when you only have 6 guys that can play. But come on guys, play some D! And Fells…he won’t sniff the court next year.

Courtney Fells is so frustrating. His pull up mid range jumper is so inconsistent and his turnovers are just mind boggling. Grant is the same way but just better shooting.

Grant plays horrible defense. I was watching him a lot during the later parts of the game and he was pretty much standing up-right (not in a defensinve crouch) and letting guys blow past him or making half hearted swipes at that ball. On O, he seems to play lazy most of the time and then really go after on others (like that nasty drive near the end of the game). If he attacked like that all the time, he would be nearly unstoppable

Goods:
Gavin can shoot, Horner can play, McCauley is good and has a sick pass, We can keep most games close.

Bads:
Gavin can’t pass, Ferguson is terrible, Fells cant pass, Atsur is more hurt, We have no depth,
We’re not going to really match up well with anyone in the ACC.

we pretty much knew all of this but this game reinforced it. Man, next year couldn’t come any faster.

Scary thought for the evening – imagine if and when the losing takes its toll on our mental state and we mail it in a bit – we’ll lose games by 40-50 points. Oh yeah, and thank God for Ben McCauley.

I hate Herb Sendek… talk about leaving the cupboard bare. He must have seen the writing on the wall with the departures of Bethel, Bennerman, Simmons, Evtimov and Brackman. He knew he would be fired with this squad. Gotta give these guys credit, they fight for as long as they can. They just don’t have the horses.

By the way…the comments and discussions here are wonderful. I just decided to take a peak at the idiot boards and I think that my IQ dropped 10 points in a matter of seconds. Thank you ALL for everything. (And, we will continue to moderate in a manner to keep the quality of the discussions as high-brow as possible).

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06-07 Basketball General

111 Responses to ANOTHER Team Has Season Best 3 Point Shooting vs Pack

  1. McPete 01/10/2007 at 12:22 PM #

    Lee Fowler,

    McCauley >>>>>>>(way f’ing greater than) Kris Lang

    that was indeed sacreligious.

  2. nycfan 01/10/2007 at 12:27 PM #

    Ferguson is hardly “garbage” but he is a kid who has not played in-game organized ball in quite some time and it shows. I am a little curious why he has completely supplanted Nieman, who has less physical ability but seems to understand the game a little better (frankly it seems to me a little time from Nieman could at least rest some guys), but that could be a building-for-the-future issue.

    I do think it is obvious to anyone watching that State’s defense last year was light years ahead of State’s defense this year (which doesn’t mean it was great then, b/c it wasn’t, but it was significantly better). Comparing the OOC stats this year to the full season stats is pretty misleading — State beat the UNCG type teams of the world by 20+ points consistently last season, and almost always held those teams around or under 60 points. That was a WAAAY better team, so not saying that State’s D should be that good this year, just saying comparing the essentially OOC numbers this year to a full season last year is not particularly instructive.

    Defensive rotations were bad for State from the outset (particularly on the perimeter); fatigue only magnified the problem as the game wore on. In part, being overly tenative to open the game for fear of foul trouble (due to extreme lack fo depth) can explain part of the problem, and it is hard to just flip that switch from tentative to aggressive, though I thought State did that after one time out in the first half when Clemson had gone up 12.

  3. jwolf 01/10/2007 at 12:32 PM #

    Rick, you just proved to me that our defense back then was better 2 and 3 years ago exactly! Last years was comparable, but we actually scored points. Since you found a site with the stats, pull up total points allowed defense. And while I agree with you that our slow down offense back then influenced the amount of posessions, it is still something you have to look at. Also, I am sure we had less turnovers then. But honestly, you have to agree with me that our defense played a lot harder then. I mean come on, our defense now is a joke! If the effort was this bad in the past HS wouldn’t have made it 10 years. Just show me some effort that is all I ask. I mean we are holding off on the up-tempo offense to give our guys a break on offense, come on man play some defense then.

  4. Mr O 01/10/2007 at 12:50 PM #

    Our D the last several years hasn’t been that good. Where were we in FG% defense the last several years in conference games only?

    We just don’t have the horses to play good defense, rebound and compete in the ACC this year. BC and Clemson are both a lot better than us unfortunately.

  5. packbackr04 01/10/2007 at 12:51 PM #

    the other bad thing about gavin picking up the ball at the top of the key with his back to the basket, is that noone is moving without the ball, trying to get open, when GG picks up his dribble, the double team is immediate and the other guys on the floor need to recognize this AND GET OPEN.

  6. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 01/10/2007 at 1:08 PM #

    JWolf State basketball has sucked for over 15 years. I wouldn’t worry about one more season sport.

  7. 98st8 01/10/2007 at 1:17 PM #

    with all of the talk about the NIT… if we do make it… can we PLEASE NOT PUT UP A BANNER saying that we made the NIT. Those banners up there from Herb’s 1st couple of years in the NIT are just plain embarrassing

  8. newt 01/10/2007 at 1:22 PM #

    We still don’t have a bad loss.

  9. Rick 01/10/2007 at 1:34 PM #

    “years was comparable, but we actually scored points.”

    You say our defense sucks this year.
    I said Herb’s was over rated.
    You said prove it.
    I show that this years defense to this point is comparable to last year. Thus proving my ascertion.
    You then make a comment about our offense being better last year.
    If you want anyone to ever listen to anything you say you need to admit you were wrong.

  10. newt 01/10/2007 at 1:35 PM #

    I thought Gavin showed great class when he checked on Hammonds after they collided on a basket.

  11. jwolf 01/10/2007 at 1:44 PM #

    Rick, I will admit I am wrong when I am wrong. We will check out the stats at the end of this year after we go through the ACC gauntlet and then compare and if they prove to be better than years past I will then admit I was wrong. Rembember we have played some shit teams so far and that has skewed the stats from this year. I just don’t think we can simply say that Herbs defense was overrated. Man I had a problem with the offense as did many, but on defense we busted our ass. We dove after loose balls. We may have gotten outrebounded badly the last year HS was here, but just like this year we had different type of big guys. I am not trying to argue with you but do you agree that our defense this year is unacceptable and not as good as years past? That is all I am trying to say. Whether you feel HS’s defense was overrated, you must still agree that our defense is currently unacceptable?!?!

  12. jwolf 01/10/2007 at 1:45 PM #

    We should have started fouling at the 10 minute mark in the second half last night…the free throws were the only wide open shots that Clemson missed. Actually fouling….and hitting some last minute threes made the game look a little respectable.

  13. BoKnowsNCS71 01/10/2007 at 1:54 PM #

    Sad to say — it’s our turn to be the Washington Generals (that team that always plays the Globetrotters).

    We are down but not out. To quote the Govinator — “I’ll be back”

  14. GAWolf 01/10/2007 at 2:03 PM #

    True, Mr. O. The concept that teams and individual players often have their “break out” or career game against us is nothing new. The Curse of the Valvano lives… or our defense has never (or at least in recent memory) been exactly dominating.

    Carolina’s D swarms. They will squash us like bugs.

  15. Rick 01/10/2007 at 2:10 PM #

    “Rembember we have played some shit teams so far and that has skewed the stats from this year. ”

    I do not disagree, as I noted in my post.

    But the contention is that this years teams are worse at defense than Herb’s and as of right now that is not a corrrect statement.
    You asked for stats. I gave you the only stats I can possibly provide.

    It is the whole crazy “positionless” philosophy. How can you guard a position player (ie PG) when you have 7 6’7″ players that do not have the speed. It is not unique to this year, we were not good at defense ever since that cockeyed philosophy premeated the bball program. It is a myth that Herb’s teams were great at defense.

  16. choppack1 01/10/2007 at 2:21 PM #

    Anyone scared that what we’re seeing is “NBA-influenced defense?”

    I actually think it may be NBA type intensity and effort. This was what I was hinting at when I mentioned it will be interesting to see/hear what Sidney has learned/is learning this year about the college game. In the NBA – where matchups are still key, there less physical differential between the teams.

    I don’t know why, but you just don’t seem to see the defensive intensity or the overplaying – probably because in the NBA – you can’t overplay w/out being burned – that you do in the college game. Just as the NFL and college football are very different – the NBA and college basketball are very different. (Full disclosure – I don’t watch a lot of NBA, but I watch some playoffs and will stop on the remote to watch a few possessions.)

    Playing good defense isn’t that hard – the key ingridients are technique and desire.

  17. burnbarn 01/10/2007 at 3:48 PM #

    I thought Sid coached an excellent game last night. He made multiple adjustments in game by switching assignments and defenses. Honestly, it was a miracle that we were not down by 30 at half. I think that speaks volumes about his ability to coach. We just cannot match up with teams in the top half of the league and we are going to be shelled by them all. I think Sid got about the maximum he could get out of that team last night. He really does not have many buttons to push. I saw more in game adjustments last night than I have seen from an NC State team in a long time.

    Klem really is not that great of a team, but we handed them the ball too many times and gave them too many multiple shots at the basket. They will be beaten easily by better teams, heck we had a chance to win last night slim as it was.

    I feel for GG; he was clearly frustrated last night at his own play and I hope it does not kill his confidence. He knows he is not suppose to pick up his dribble, but it is contrary to the way he has played the game his entire life to this point. If you are 6’7″ w/o a great handle on the ball and these small, fast PGs are all in your stuff, it is difficult to NOT pick up your dribble so you do not turn it over before you have the opportunity to make a pass. Knowing and being able to do something are two different things.

    Fells at PG? Maybe after the ball gets past half court, but neither he nor Ferg want the ball in their hands in the back court.. as soon as they get it they are looking to get rid of it even in transition. In transition i would love for Fells to center the ball, but he wants to be on the wing and unless GG fills the center, then the ball will not be centered.

    I still am not sure what to think of perimeter defense. We have given up a lot of good looks, but i don’t remember so many shots going down even when open over the years. Maybe i need to think about that a little more.

    I imagine some of these middle ACC teams are licking their chops at the prospect of playing us this season. Herb owned Klem while he was here and GT to lesser extent. I think we are seeing alot of frustration being taken out on us. It is going to be a long season and we will repeatedly see this especially w/o Atsur. I agree with someone else; I think we are better without him, but we will not have a chance to win anything until we cut down on the TOs. Atsur will help us there.

  18. BoKnowsNCS71 01/10/2007 at 4:03 PM #

    Washington Generals — jeez that’s not right. I probably should have said we’re playing like the Carolina Bobcats — young, inexperienced, raw, and capable of getting better as the team ages.

  19. choppack1 01/10/2007 at 4:42 PM #

    “I still am not sure what to think of perimeter defense. We have given up a lot of good looks, but i don’t remember so many shots going down even when open over the years. Maybe i need to think about that a little more. ”

    I don’t know why you’re unsure – it’s some of the worst I’ve seen in major college basketball. It’s not that guys are getting good looks – they are getting great looks. They are totally on balance – and they are totally wide open – and this is a direct result of our defense, not their offense. The 3 point shot is pretty if you can get set. No need thinking of a curse, we just aren’t playing good perimeter. A large part of that is not having Atsur and our depth.

  20. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 01/10/2007 at 4:42 PM #

    I remember the great defensive efforts under the former coach. One in particular about 2 years ago when UNC had a fast break dunk nearly every time down court whilst the former coach would stand there with his arm crossed and his face red.

  21. C Dog 01/10/2007 at 5:42 PM #

    ^^^^If you think there were a large number of dunks by UNC in 2005, brace yourself for this year. I hope I am wrong, but it will not be fun to watch.

  22. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 01/10/2007 at 5:53 PM #

    ^^^ If the UNC game goes that way this year I can sure as hell assure you Lowe will be coaching instead of just standing there looking like he is about to cry.

  23. Cardiff Giant 01/10/2007 at 6:15 PM #

    ^ Yup. UNC will beat us into a new shape (I hate to say that, but it’s true) but Sid will keep coaching instead of going into a fugue state.

  24. PurplePeopleEaters 01/10/2007 at 6:46 PM #

    Another thing I would like to add on the whole horner issue..

    I am downright tired of all these “experts” on 850 the buzz who say he will “never be a productive player in the ACC”. It’s like they didn’t even watch the game last night! Give the kid an open look and he’ll drain it. He missed one shot and finished with 14 points.. How can you look at a guy who is doing the most with his opportunities and right away say that he will never be productive? that’s a complete joke.

    And yeah, we’re going to get throttled by UNC this year but most everyone in the ACC will this year, especially duke.

  25. Woof Wolf 01/10/2007 at 9:16 PM #

    Duke just got BUZZED. 74 – 63.

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