ANOTHER Team Has Season Best 3 Point Shooting vs Pack

06-07 Basketball General111

Clemson 87
NC State 76

Some quick bytes on the game…although they are not very different from any other loss this season:

* It is a broken record. Another basketball game…ANOTHER team who ‘found a way’ to shoot LIGHTS OUT from three point territory against the Wolfpack. Clemson ultimately shot 10-19 for 52% from behind the arc.

* At one point tonight the announcers made a comment about how “confidence” can help a team with their shooting. I wonder how your opponent’s inability or unwillingness to play defense impacts your shooting?

* It is not just a ‘coincidence’ that Wofford, UNC-G, ECU, UNC-W, Cincinnati, West Virginia and now Clemson have all produced fantastic shooting nights against the Wolfpack. We aren’t going to harp on the loss too much because we all know what is expected of this team this year and they are living up to the low expectations. The opportunity for the Pack to potentially nab an NIT bid this year is fleeting very quickly for the Pack.

* State continues to shoot very well from the field (and the free throw line). Tonight the Pack shot 54% from the field and 81% from the line. The problem lies in the fact that the Pack doesn’t get enough shots because of turnovers; while simultaneously allowing the opponent extra shots on offensive rebounds.

* Are we SURE that it Engin Atsur wouldn’t accept a redshirt this season and stick around another year?

* Courtney Fells should enjoy his time on the court this year because if he doesn’t show MAJOR improvement in his play on both ends of the floor then he may experience significantly dwindling playing time over the next few years. He could serve a super role as an “athlete” coming off the bench in the future, but most ACC teams don’t have spots for “shooting guards” that can’t shoot, have trouble making fundamental passes (ever heard of the BOUNCE PASS?), and don’t have a desire to play perimeter defense.

* I keep hearing from the television announcers that Trevor Ferguson is supposedly a great shooter. He probably is a great shooter; it is just hard to tell since he never shoots. What value does he bring if he can’t get a shot off in a game?

* To be honest, Ferguson is contributing EXACTLY what I expected of him. This isn’t a dig at him. Just honest analysis. You never saw SFN make any kind of a big deal (or much a mention) of his ‘absence’ before he was eligible. Can’t believe that Sendek truly spent a scholarship on this kind of transfer. Scratch that. Yes I can. Marques Johnson, Farnold Degand, Julius Mays, CJ Williams (and even Fells) presence on the roster at various points in the next three years don’t bode well for Ferguson in the future. If Costner moves to the 3F and Grant to the 2G to make room for Hickson to start next year (therefore moving Fells to the bench) then we may never see Ferguson on the court after this season.

* I have my eye on the official statistics tonight as I am interested to see how they categorize turnovers. I have periperally observed some potential ‘home cooking’ as it relates to the allocation of turnovers on State’s roster. I DVR’d the game (that I doubt very much that I will review) and randomly noted at least six turnovers that should be attributed to Gavin Grant tonight. (That is being VERY KIND) We will see how they come in.

* State opens ACC play with three losses for the first time since 1999-2000, when we went on to finish 5-11 in the conference. That is odd. Jimmy Dykes told us that Herb Sendek “did nothing but win” in Raleigh. 1999-2000? Sheesh. That was FOUR YEARS into Sendek’s tenure? That doesn’t jive with urban legend.

* Don’t make the mistake of getting too mad at the Pack for this loss just because it was to ‘Clemson’. This Tiger team currently holds the #6 spot in the Sagarin computer and is a legitimate NCAA Tournament and Top 20 team this year.

Update:

You generally KNOW that you must be at least CLOSE TO RIGHT when so many other people have the exact same thoughts as you do in realtime as things unfold. The following are comments from some of our readers from the the game entry that are SPOT ON and deserve elevation here. I elevate them because I have had all of the exact same thoughts and couldn’t agree with them more:

It is very hard to compete in the ACC when you have the worst perimeter defense in the history of mankind, and nobody can handle the ball adequately except your center.

I will revise my predictions – this could very easily be a 1-15 or 2-14 team in the ACC. I am exceptionally thankful for the Michigan win (our “one shining moment”, it seems) and the lack of an embarrassing OOC loss.

None of this is an indictment of Lowe. The skill set we need him to show is not necessarily being able to tread water with a vastly undermanned squad. We need to see what he can do with bullets in his gun. the next 2 years, we’ll see that.

What is most frustrating to me is the lack of fire in some of these guys. It translates in the careless turnovers and terrible fundamental defensive play. This is not the type of team I enjoy watching. I want us to be a fundamentally sound team that plays its ass off on the defensive end. We are as porous as can be there — guys just turning and laying it in with nobody helping out. I guess it all just sort of adds up when you only have 6 guys that can play. But come on guys, play some D! And Fells…he won’t sniff the court next year.

Courtney Fells is so frustrating. His pull up mid range jumper is so inconsistent and his turnovers are just mind boggling. Grant is the same way but just better shooting.

Grant plays horrible defense. I was watching him a lot during the later parts of the game and he was pretty much standing up-right (not in a defensinve crouch) and letting guys blow past him or making half hearted swipes at that ball. On O, he seems to play lazy most of the time and then really go after on others (like that nasty drive near the end of the game). If he attacked like that all the time, he would be nearly unstoppable

Goods:
Gavin can shoot, Horner can play, McCauley is good and has a sick pass, We can keep most games close.

Bads:
Gavin can’t pass, Ferguson is terrible, Fells cant pass, Atsur is more hurt, We have no depth,
We’re not going to really match up well with anyone in the ACC.

we pretty much knew all of this but this game reinforced it. Man, next year couldn’t come any faster.

Scary thought for the evening – imagine if and when the losing takes its toll on our mental state and we mail it in a bit – we’ll lose games by 40-50 points. Oh yeah, and thank God for Ben McCauley.

I hate Herb Sendek… talk about leaving the cupboard bare. He must have seen the writing on the wall with the departures of Bethel, Bennerman, Simmons, Evtimov and Brackman. He knew he would be fired with this squad. Gotta give these guys credit, they fight for as long as they can. They just don’t have the horses.

By the way…the comments and discussions here are wonderful. I just decided to take a peak at the idiot boards and I think that my IQ dropped 10 points in a matter of seconds. Thank you ALL for everything. (And, we will continue to moderate in a manner to keep the quality of the discussions as high-brow as possible).

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06-07 Basketball General

111 Responses to ANOTHER Team Has Season Best 3 Point Shooting vs Pack

  1. GAWolf 01/10/2007 at 9:48 AM #

    Another thing about last night’s game… and I hate to bitch about officiating… but it was a terribly officiated game going both ways. GG walked about 20 times “pivoting” at the top of the key to get a pass away, but McCauley was repeatedly molested under the basket. It was by no means the difference of the game, but the refs were terrible last night.

  2. ChuckAllYall 01/10/2007 at 9:50 AM #

    If anyone did DVR the game, I would implore you to go back and watch it and focus on a few things. The DVR option allows you to really focus on the little things that you may miss during the flow of the game.

    1) Grant and Fells lack of defense. Just try to keep a tally at how many times they employ the matador style. They apparently refuse to move their feet into position and use a lot of hand waving and swipes. There also seems to be some anomosity between the two brewing as you can see them getting incresingly chirpy at each other when one of them throws it in the shitter. Side note (Someone has got to work with Gavin on his interview skills. If anyone read his quotes in the N&O today you know what I mean.)

    2) Grants carelessness with the ball. As one poster mentioned before, Grant picks up his dribble at the most inopportune times allowing the defense to swarm him. And to compound this, the rest of the guys aren’t exactly flying to the ball to help out. And I am not buying the “But Gavin’s not a point guard” excuse for this one. Often times when he is picking up his dribble, he is not under pressure and it is more of a mental mistake that should be corrected by this point in the season than any physical deficiency. I woud venture to say that over half of his turnovers are a direct result of picking up his dribble prematurely. After a while you have to ask yourself if he just doesn’t get it, or is too damn stubborn to change? I guess it actually doesn’t matter which one is the case, as we’re screwed either way.

    3) Brandon Costner is going to need to develop some stronger post moves and really work to hone his right hand. In the first few games against weaker (and slower) opponents, he was able to bull them to the rim. The last few games we’ve seen that this is not going to work in conference play. I understand he was not really recruited as a traditional post player, but these skills are only going to help his overall game in the long run (Especially if he can only be counted on to hit 32 foot three pointers, when we’re down by 15, in the last two minutes of the game).

    4) Trevor Ferguson needs to come out and publicly admit that he is Jeremy Hyatt’s brother. You know it to be true Trevor……search your feelings, it is your destiny.

  3. smfrank 01/10/2007 at 9:51 AM #

    Now I think about it some – those turnovers drive me even more crazy. We lost by 11 points. We had at least 8 turnovers that led to direct scores (paper stated 21 points off turnovers). Then we had at least 4 silly turnovers throwing the ball out of bounds from the point. We cut half the turnovers that led to scores out (4 TO’s, thus half the points -> 8 points). We cut half the silly turnovers out (2). We score on 1/3rd of the “new possessions” (6 new possessions – 4 points). This totals a 12 point swing – we win.

    Now – that’s all hypothetical. But it goes to show you what a little more EFFORT and FOCUS could bring. And I don’t feel this asking too much. We still have a reasonably high level of TO’s at around 13, but please cut out (or down) the passive – playing like pansies turnovers.

  4. Mr O 01/10/2007 at 9:53 AM #

    Fells is a work in progress. That is all their is to say about him. Many NC State fans(and fans of other schools) are way too quick to annoint young players as potential stars just because a guy is athletic and can dunk. There is a lot more to basketball than being athletic. No reason to get down on Fells. He should really help us the next 2.3 seasons.

    Clemson hit everything they shot it seemed and when they missed they got the offensive rebound and hit their next shot. It was quite an impressive performance.

    I went from expecting this team to be as bad as any I have ever seen to thinking that maybe, just maybe we could make a run at a 5-8 win season in the ACC. Unfortunately, we are just overmatched and we don’t have the bodies to compete. I am disappointed for the guys on the roster that unfortunately one year of their collegiate careers is essentially appears to be a throwaway.

    Agree with the comments on Horner. I have been talking about him most of the season. He is versatile and he brings good size. He is going to be a major contributer for us for the next three years.

    One thing that hurts us on defense is that when Sendek switched to his positionless approach, Herb changed the type of player he recruited. He looked for shooters with good size and versatility on offense.

    Unfortunately, these type of players tended to not be good defensive players and tended to be horrible rebounders.

  5. jwolf 01/10/2007 at 9:59 AM #

    ^Mr. O, I agree with some things but disagree with others. The reason why Clemson hit everything was because of our lack of defense. Again, this shows up pretty often in our games as many teams we played this year have shot “lights out” against us because we don’t play defense. And one more thing, Herbs teams may not have rebounded well but we played sound defense. Don’t know why that has changed now, maybe it is the conditioning thing I mentioned earlier. Not saying Herb conditioned them well to play hard on both ends….maybe the methodical slow it down princeton style offense didn’t take as much out of the tank and enabled them to have more energy to play defense. I don’t know! I do know though that we need to play defense and if we do, teams will not shoot “lights out” against us as they have done the first half of this year.
    Oh yeah, and please teach the team how to beat a press!

  6. jwolf 01/10/2007 at 10:00 AM #

    Real quick on beating a press. What Costner did last night just getting the ball and driving up the court to beat the press will work, but it is not the most conventional way of beating a press. Passes, passes beat a press. And not passes after you wait a second for the defense to double team you. You have to pass quickly to beat a press…anticipating the double team/trap coming!

  7. Rick 01/10/2007 at 10:21 AM #

    Herb’s defense was overrated.
    He kept the scoring low by slowing down the game.

  8. GAWolf 01/10/2007 at 10:48 AM #

    I thought we did a decent job of breaking the press last night… or at least I saw marked improvement.

    It was the long pass up court that gains nothing that led to the transition turnovers. The idiot beside me in the crows nest kept yelling “PUSH IT! PUSH IT!!!” and as if on cue our guys could hear him they would heave a pass up the court and into the crowd. I just kept looking over at him and feeling glad this guy was up in the poor seats with me instead of closer where our players could actually hear him.

  9. jwolf 01/10/2007 at 10:57 AM #

    Rick, if you think our defense back then was overrated prove it! Give me some stats or something. I guarantee you will be surprised by how many turnovers per game we forced in the past few years and how we were usually in the top few for defensive field goal percentage…..meaning our opposition didn’t have a good field goal percentage. Either way, and we can argue about this all day if you want to, our defense right now sucks. And it doesn’t matter what we did or how much our defense in the past was overrated (which obviously it wasn’t), it is what is going on right now. It hasn’t progressed at all and that is something that the coaching staff really needs to get on the players about. Let them know that if they don’t play defense, they won’t play at all! I rather see Neiman and whoever out there busting their ass on defense than that embarrasing crap I saw last night from Grant and Fells.

  10. c6by66 01/10/2007 at 11:11 AM #

    Since I paid a lot for my seats…and am enjoying the food…here is my take…

    1. We should thank our lucky stars for Monte Towe. I got there early and watched ALL the warm-ups…Towe, in a sweater or t-shirt, was out there with the guys. He adds another level of enthusiasm and the chemistry between he and Lowe seems great. Over the long haul, we will be a better team with Towe at the number two slot (think Guthridge and Dean….sorry they WERE successful…). Lowe will do good things if we let him.

    2. Lowe continues to amaze me with his spirt and his media savvy. He was honest during the post game (sort of a post mortem)…he knows what we need and is working with the “talent” that HS left him. I think he is doing great…

    3. Speaking of post mortems…how about our own “undertaker”….could resist the line….Mr. McCauley. He gave one of the best Q&A’s on the game…the reporters will matriculate to him…he talks in simple terms…has a great grasp and never said…”like, you know, man, I mean….” ONCE….Big Ben is one of the breaths of FRESH AIR on the court…he will improve.

    4. ALRIGHT…lets just go ahead and execute Gavin…After all, he is NOT working out as a Point Guard…wait a minute…was he RECRUITED as a PG? He DID score 22 points…without him we would be looking at 40 or 50 point losses…I also saw his mistakes…but Sid has very few options…CONSIDER THIS…My high school BB coach CUT all the Jr’s and Sr’s and left only ONE sophomore on the squad…we went 2 and 30 something for TWO seasons and almost won the division championship our Sr. year….Now IF you want to have that record…then we need to get rid of GG now.

    5. Trevor Vs Courtney…Mixed feelings… Trevor hustles…but he runs slightly out of control and aimlessly…he DID hit a Trey last night. Fells was actually pretty good at the PG position. NEWS FLASH…if Sid is a smart as I think he is…then he probably also knows this…Everyone is HIGH today on Leake and DOWN on Smith…no personal axe to grind…but Fells had a GREAT game when he was the PG…maybe we will see him there later.

    6. WF at HOME…I watched the whole WF/BC game…can’t decide if BC got tired or lost their focus or if WF has some potential…We AlWAYS MATCH UP POORLY against WF. I hate to think how many times since the V days that I have seen us take a great squad against a mediocre WF team and LOSE. I hope that History does not repeat itself…but he poster that made the comments about us beating WF may have been a little premature. It will be a tough game…but we could come away with a W…although at Home is always TOUGH.

    7. OK, all you knowledgeable folks…..WHAT IS the rule on applying for a Med Red Shirt? Atsur looks questionable for the WHOLE season…I assume our coaches know this. Will be interesting to listen to Sid tonight….why don’s some of you turn off your PC’s and call in…great bunch of questions for Sid.

    8. OK…I’ll take my chances for a SFN Admin comment here….I THOUGHT the guys looked tired. They came out pretty fresh and the game looked good…until we went down by double digits. I also thought that the guys looked a little SLOW at getting to EITHER end of the court. Clemson was always ahead of us. It could conditioning, mental, or whatever. Purnell was running fresh guys at us. If you look at the scoreboard and add up the point for the team on the floor…then look at the total score, Purnell had players out there who usually accounted for 60% of the points. We had 6 players…7 if you count Neiman. The stats on who played the most minutes are astounding.

    9. HORNER is ANOTHER shining light in a dim room. He continues to improve and is a great shooter. He and McCauley have GREAT chemistry. BB gets most of his assists to Horner. He will IMPROVE…but he is a Freshman and NOT one of the Super Stars or NBA Franchise players.

    10. OK…this is it. We will be what we will be…I think we will get an NIT bid…we travel well and fill arenas…that is a MAJOR NIT criteria ($$$$ and Lots off it…). I plan on going to Tampa and enjoying the first game…will stay for a while…like I did last year…Finally on Friday, I sold my tickets and left Saturday morning…May do that again….but I will be there.

    GO PACK…

  11. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 01/10/2007 at 11:28 AM #

    If Sid’s team looks like this 4 years in then we have a problem. At the BC game I stepped outside the arena for a minute and the usher working the door kept saying: “Where is Herb? We never scored 19 points in a half with Herb.” I replied to ‘where is Herb’ with the response “6-8.”

    Relax, we all knew this was going to be a very difficult year for the Pack. I think the vast majority of us are pleased with the direction of the team. This is a very young team and the little experience that we do have are learning a new system.

  12. BoKnowsNCS71 01/10/2007 at 11:30 AM #

    I just don’t see Enjin wanting to come back for another year of this. There will be some new kids to fill his role. It would be nice to see some mentoring time — but the conditions right now and early next year are not conducive to getting him to want to stay.

  13. BoKnowsNCS71 01/10/2007 at 11:32 AM #

    tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc — Wasn’t there one game maybe 2 seasons ago where we played a team and just could not score? I’m not sure we even scored 20 in the first half of that one. I think were playing in New York but can’t recall who.

  14. xphoenix87 01/10/2007 at 11:35 AM #

    “Understand your point very well. But, you have to balance this with long term investment. Neiman is a senior and is never going to play again. The rest of these guys are younger and can learn valuable lessons and gain experience to help us in the future.”

    Honestly, I’d like to see one of those valuable lessons be “play defense, or we’re going to sit your butt down on the end of the bench.” We need someone to come in and play defense, and we need someone to give our guys a rest. Neiman could do that; I have no idea why he doesn’t get PT anymore.

  15. VaWolf82 01/10/2007 at 11:37 AM #

    So my biggest concern is our lack of defense. I cannot figure out if it is our lack of speed, our lack of experience or just a lack of effort.

    Good comment and more complete than anything I have managed to produce.

    To have anything close to a good season (NIT or better), everyone on the squad had to produce near their maximum potential and everyone had to stay healthy. No surprise really that the best case scenario is not unfolding.

  16. Rochester 01/10/2007 at 11:42 AM #

    Bo, It was the St. John’s debacle, and you have done well to block it out. That was the low point in my time as a Pack fan. I was so pissed off I went outside and started edging the yard in the dark. That was after about eight beers and it didn’t come out too straight. I pray we don’t see that nightmare repeated this season.

  17. GAWolf 01/10/2007 at 11:44 AM #

    Interesting take on the confidence point. I had a guy mention that idea to me yesterday even before the game. Basketball players build like maybe no other athlete there is. He said it was the nature of the game. We let guys come out and hit several relatively uncontested shots early and the confidence level increases and with that so does the overall shooting percentage for the game. This cause and effect concept seems pretty accurate to me.

    I watched the BC game on television which means I got to see something other than ants bouncing around a court. The BC guys were laughing, joking, smiling… looking quite confident for playing an away game on tobacco road.

  18. choppack1 01/10/2007 at 11:46 AM #

    Right now we stink defensively and on the boards. Our offense is inconsistent at best. I gave us a blank check early, but there is no excuse for the poor defense I’ve seen the last 2 games. This excuse is only valid if you can do a great job defensively for an extended amount of time and the team then runs out of gas – that’s not happening. Our 3 point d is pourous most of the game.

    Our guys don’t fight through picks and seem to always be one step behind.

    This shouldn’t be taken as a criticism of Sid or the current staff. Sid doesn’t have his guys here yet and he’s adjusting to an entirely different game. I look forward to seeing what he can do next year w/ more bodies and just as importantly, what he’s learned from this year. (Yes, I’ve written off this year’s season.)

  19. GAWolf 01/10/2007 at 11:56 AM #

    Anyone scared that what we’re seeing is “NBA-influenced defense?”

  20. TNCSU 01/10/2007 at 11:58 AM #

    ^^and another thing, was in the hell was the story in letting James Mays get out of Garner and go to Clemson??? he looks just like Kornegay…

    Mays was academically ineligible for most of the season last year — does the name PJ Tucker ring a bell. Same reason.

    But, on to other glaring issues. Our team seems to be fairly easy to figure out. Play 8-10 players and “wear us out.” I think you are seeing loafing from players because they know there is no alternative for the coach. That will change next year with the influx of new talent. Trevor hustles, but he is never going to be All-ACC – but he can contribute. I think we should put a couple of the football players in if Coach Lowe feels they are not a huge liability. I think a few of our players need a fire lit somewhere near their backside.

  21. foz 01/10/2007 at 11:59 AM #

    Is it possible that we play better without Atsur? If he cannot get back in there, I would like to see another option at point – can’t make many more mistakes than GG, plus frees him up to score more. One other thing I don’t like – seems like shots are coming too quickly sometimes. When the ball is gotten down court quickly, it doesn’t mean that it has to be shot quickly. Saw too many early pull up jumpers with noone remotley close to the board for for a rebound. I know you want shooters to shoot, but the answer to a 3 from your opponet is not always to launch one of your own – especially when they are not consistently falling.

  22. TNCSU 01/10/2007 at 12:02 PM #

    ^^^Anyone scared that what we’re seeing is “NBA-influenced defense?”

    I know where you’re going with that one, and I HOPE NOT!

    Another point to consider with Engin — He probably has a very LONG European professional basketball career to consider. One of the reasons that he is in no hurry to rush back from the injury. I definitely doubt he will redshirt — he will be playing pro basketball in Europe next year — whether he suits up at ALL the rest of this season.

  23. Rick 01/10/2007 at 12:09 PM #

    “Rick, if you think our defense back then was overrated prove it! Give me some stats or something.”

    Our FG % defense this year is .421. Last year it was .432. (.397 the year before that and .413 the year before that).
    Our three point fg % defense this year is .365. Last year it was .37. (.268 the yar before that and .31 the year before that).

    Granted this is not the full year yet but the percentages this year are better than last year. The only marked improvement is the three point field goal precentage from two and three years ago.

    “And it doesn’t matter what we did or how much our defense in the past was overrated (which obviously it wasn’t), ”

    Obviously someone spoke before actually checking statistics.

  24. cpwolfpackfan 01/10/2007 at 12:15 PM #

    we never had a “true” pg while here was here so there was no leaving us a pg. and don’t think larry davis was the answer. We will be ok, just have to sit back at take our woopings like grown men this year

  25. McPete 01/10/2007 at 12:22 PM #

    Lee Fowler,

    McCauley >>>>>>>(way f’ing greater than) Kris Lang

    that was indeed sacreligious.

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