ANOTHER Team Has Season Best 3 Point Shooting vs Pack

06-07 Basketball General111

Clemson 87
NC State 76

Some quick bytes on the game…although they are not very different from any other loss this season:

* It is a broken record. Another basketball game…ANOTHER team who ‘found a way’ to shoot LIGHTS OUT from three point territory against the Wolfpack. Clemson ultimately shot 10-19 for 52% from behind the arc.

* At one point tonight the announcers made a comment about how “confidence” can help a team with their shooting. I wonder how your opponent’s inability or unwillingness to play defense impacts your shooting?

* It is not just a ‘coincidence’ that Wofford, UNC-G, ECU, UNC-W, Cincinnati, West Virginia and now Clemson have all produced fantastic shooting nights against the Wolfpack. We aren’t going to harp on the loss too much because we all know what is expected of this team this year and they are living up to the low expectations. The opportunity for the Pack to potentially nab an NIT bid this year is fleeting very quickly for the Pack.

* State continues to shoot very well from the field (and the free throw line). Tonight the Pack shot 54% from the field and 81% from the line. The problem lies in the fact that the Pack doesn’t get enough shots because of turnovers; while simultaneously allowing the opponent extra shots on offensive rebounds.

* Are we SURE that it Engin Atsur wouldn’t accept a redshirt this season and stick around another year?

* Courtney Fells should enjoy his time on the court this year because if he doesn’t show MAJOR improvement in his play on both ends of the floor then he may experience significantly dwindling playing time over the next few years. He could serve a super role as an “athlete” coming off the bench in the future, but most ACC teams don’t have spots for “shooting guards” that can’t shoot, have trouble making fundamental passes (ever heard of the BOUNCE PASS?), and don’t have a desire to play perimeter defense.

* I keep hearing from the television announcers that Trevor Ferguson is supposedly a great shooter. He probably is a great shooter; it is just hard to tell since he never shoots. What value does he bring if he can’t get a shot off in a game?

* To be honest, Ferguson is contributing EXACTLY what I expected of him. This isn’t a dig at him. Just honest analysis. You never saw SFN make any kind of a big deal (or much a mention) of his ‘absence’ before he was eligible. Can’t believe that Sendek truly spent a scholarship on this kind of transfer. Scratch that. Yes I can. Marques Johnson, Farnold Degand, Julius Mays, CJ Williams (and even Fells) presence on the roster at various points in the next three years don’t bode well for Ferguson in the future. If Costner moves to the 3F and Grant to the 2G to make room for Hickson to start next year (therefore moving Fells to the bench) then we may never see Ferguson on the court after this season.

* I have my eye on the official statistics tonight as I am interested to see how they categorize turnovers. I have periperally observed some potential ‘home cooking’ as it relates to the allocation of turnovers on State’s roster. I DVR’d the game (that I doubt very much that I will review) and randomly noted at least six turnovers that should be attributed to Gavin Grant tonight. (That is being VERY KIND) We will see how they come in.

* State opens ACC play with three losses for the first time since 1999-2000, when we went on to finish 5-11 in the conference. That is odd. Jimmy Dykes told us that Herb Sendek “did nothing but win” in Raleigh. 1999-2000? Sheesh. That was FOUR YEARS into Sendek’s tenure? That doesn’t jive with urban legend.

* Don’t make the mistake of getting too mad at the Pack for this loss just because it was to ‘Clemson’. This Tiger team currently holds the #6 spot in the Sagarin computer and is a legitimate NCAA Tournament and Top 20 team this year.

Update:

You generally KNOW that you must be at least CLOSE TO RIGHT when so many other people have the exact same thoughts as you do in realtime as things unfold. The following are comments from some of our readers from the the game entry that are SPOT ON and deserve elevation here. I elevate them because I have had all of the exact same thoughts and couldn’t agree with them more:

It is very hard to compete in the ACC when you have the worst perimeter defense in the history of mankind, and nobody can handle the ball adequately except your center.

I will revise my predictions – this could very easily be a 1-15 or 2-14 team in the ACC. I am exceptionally thankful for the Michigan win (our “one shining moment”, it seems) and the lack of an embarrassing OOC loss.

None of this is an indictment of Lowe. The skill set we need him to show is not necessarily being able to tread water with a vastly undermanned squad. We need to see what he can do with bullets in his gun. the next 2 years, we’ll see that.

What is most frustrating to me is the lack of fire in some of these guys. It translates in the careless turnovers and terrible fundamental defensive play. This is not the type of team I enjoy watching. I want us to be a fundamentally sound team that plays its ass off on the defensive end. We are as porous as can be there — guys just turning and laying it in with nobody helping out. I guess it all just sort of adds up when you only have 6 guys that can play. But come on guys, play some D! And Fells…he won’t sniff the court next year.

Courtney Fells is so frustrating. His pull up mid range jumper is so inconsistent and his turnovers are just mind boggling. Grant is the same way but just better shooting.

Grant plays horrible defense. I was watching him a lot during the later parts of the game and he was pretty much standing up-right (not in a defensinve crouch) and letting guys blow past him or making half hearted swipes at that ball. On O, he seems to play lazy most of the time and then really go after on others (like that nasty drive near the end of the game). If he attacked like that all the time, he would be nearly unstoppable

Goods:
Gavin can shoot, Horner can play, McCauley is good and has a sick pass, We can keep most games close.

Bads:
Gavin can’t pass, Ferguson is terrible, Fells cant pass, Atsur is more hurt, We have no depth,
We’re not going to really match up well with anyone in the ACC.

we pretty much knew all of this but this game reinforced it. Man, next year couldn’t come any faster.

Scary thought for the evening – imagine if and when the losing takes its toll on our mental state and we mail it in a bit – we’ll lose games by 40-50 points. Oh yeah, and thank God for Ben McCauley.

I hate Herb Sendek… talk about leaving the cupboard bare. He must have seen the writing on the wall with the departures of Bethel, Bennerman, Simmons, Evtimov and Brackman. He knew he would be fired with this squad. Gotta give these guys credit, they fight for as long as they can. They just don’t have the horses.

By the way…the comments and discussions here are wonderful. I just decided to take a peak at the idiot boards and I think that my IQ dropped 10 points in a matter of seconds. Thank you ALL for everything. (And, we will continue to moderate in a manner to keep the quality of the discussions as high-brow as possible).

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06-07 Basketball General

111 Responses to ANOTHER Team Has Season Best 3 Point Shooting vs Pack

  1. BJD95 01/09/2007 at 10:59 PM #

    I would say the NIT is, at best, a 15% chance.

  2. Woof Wolf 01/09/2007 at 11:04 PM #

    15% is probably dead on. But at least we can hope.

  3. drewhuff 01/09/2007 at 11:14 PM #

    our D is terrible. i am hoping this is partially due to being undermanned and not being able to play aggressive D. defense takes a lot more energy than offense, and we dont have many fouls to give. are we conserving our energy and fouls?

    at the same time you have to WANT to play good D. there are too many guys out there that just dont seem to WANT to play D. fells has his hands by his side and the ball is being passed right over hs head to the post. if we tried harder to deny entry passes we wouldnt get hurt down low so much.

    i thought our D in the past under “that other guy” was usually pretty good. they even charted defensive deflections. this team’s defense will not scare anyone and no individual player on this team scares anyone on the defensive end. atsur is our best defender mostly due to his scrappiness as evidenced by the BC game. he is the only guy out there that will dive on the floor after a ball(maybe mccauley too, but i dont think ive seen it).

  4. xphoenix87 01/09/2007 at 11:24 PM #

    I would like, just once, to see them sprint back down the court to get on D, then get down and slap the floor like they care. You should take pride in your defense, put energy in it. We just look like we don’t give a rip whether the other team scores or not.

  5. ktpritch 01/09/2007 at 11:25 PM #

    One other issue that is depth related that I was pondering while trying to destract myself from the crap on tv…I really think that having such a thin bench hurts the team from a game prep. standpoint. Anyone who plays sports will tell you that having to work against good competition every day is what makes you better. With our bench being so thin, some of the starters prob. have a easy go of it during practice and don’t step it up accordingly during games. This occured to me in the 2nd half when Costner drove right and had a layup had he driven hard, but instead he hit the corner (having beaten his man), and almost let up thus allowing the D to catch up and force a bad shot. If you are pushed in practice, you would know from experience not to let up.

    I would imagine that this is why Sid brought on the football players. I have heard othe coaches say that a team is only as good as its 2nd string as those are the guys who push the starters and prepare them for the intensity of games.

    Just a thought…

  6. richdail 01/09/2007 at 11:58 PM #

    “I’m no tactician, and I certainly aint no ACC coach, but I just want to understand. In my feeble mind, it seems as though you would put the worst free throw shooting team in the world ON THE LINE. And, I would think that you would do it at about the 3 or 4 minute mark when you are down 15 and CANNOT make a stop. Am I wrong, or should this be where your practice/football players come in and get 5 fouls a peice? I am not trying to pick on the coaches, I just want to know if you guys have any insight.”

    That is exactly what I was thinking. It seemed as though Sidney conceded this game at about the 4-5 minute mark (perhaps a learned trait after suffering so many losses with NBA franchise teams?)

    I am very much anti-Herb and pro-Sidney Lowe, but on the off chance Lowe reads or gets wind of this stuff, he needs to know that we expect big things from him and we aren’t going to be happy with mediocre. I can live with zero wins in the ACC this year, but watching lackluster play get rewarded with more minutes—and conceding defeat so early in games—is not what I expect from an NCSU coach.

    SFN: The problem here is that there is just simply NOBODY else to bring in off the bench.

    Don’t understand why Nieman’s minutes went practically to zero—let’s get some hard fouls on some shooters early. Let’s use up all the fouls we have from some of our reserves. Let’s get some respect. Players remember hard fouls next time they shoot the ball. It was obvious the Clemson players—to a man—were shooting with the confidence that comes from knowing you ain’t about to be blocked or fouled hard. And on our home court to boot.

    SFN: Understand your point very well. But, you have to balance this with long term investment. Neiman is a senior and is never going to play again. The rest of these guys are younger and can learn valuable lessons and gain experience to help us in the future.

  7. VaWolf82 01/10/2007 at 7:26 AM #

    There is no way to support the claim that the team is conserving energy so that they can play in the second half (unless you want to claim that they are just out of shape). We’ve all seen teams with shallow benches play better defense than this.

  8. Master 01/10/2007 at 7:54 AM #

    Gonna be a long year. I just hope the fans continue to show up and support the Pack.

  9. kool k 01/10/2007 at 7:58 AM #

    “I don’t think anyone has a doubt that the worst coach in America could win with that squad. Hell…he did.”

    Diet Mountain Dew just came out of my nose after reading that one. Hilarious and oh so true. He was a class act though, is he still at The Citadel?

  10. BoKnowsNCS71 01/10/2007 at 8:25 AM #

    NIT? Sure don’t see that happening this year.

  11. tractor57 01/10/2007 at 8:30 AM #

    No bench, no pg, little to no experience, undersized and a couple players who must play who should by all rights be on the bench. A difficult situation that probably won’t get better this year.
    Lowe has almost no options available for instruction (reference the total lack of bench and the “practice dummies”). It’s going to be painful this year but once some recruits start making their way to Raleigh things will improve.
    We all knew this year would be terrible – but that in no way should deter anyone from expecting more – just allow some time for things to be worked out.

  12. BoKnowsNCS71 01/10/2007 at 8:33 AM #

    I’m going to shedule a frontal lobotomy before the Feb 3 game with EweNC. Or maybe a “bottle in front-a-me” would do the same thing.

    Just have to remember that “Time wounds all heels.”

  13. tvp 01/10/2007 at 8:51 AM #

    Small point on the NIT – you don’t have to have a winning record to be invited anymore. We could go 13-16 and get invited if they think we’d put butts in the seats. In fact, this will probably happen.

  14. Wulfpack 01/10/2007 at 8:56 AM #

    I love me some Ben McCauley, he has to be the surprise of the year in the league. But, our lack of any kind of depth is hindering him as well. There were a few times when he was just whipped in the post, and not b/c he isn’t skilled, but because he is just so gassed. I know he’s undersized to begin with, but the guy is freaking tired! Is he really going to play 39 minutes every game?

  15. GAWolf 01/10/2007 at 8:56 AM #

    I was at the game and I spent the entire night watching Gavin Grant. I’ve been very disappointed in his play all year, so I watched him closely tonight with the purpose of finding something to hope for as he will be our “leader” next year.

    Bad news guys. If some of you think Fells game is apathetic, GG’s is down right irreverant. He loafs on every play except when he gets the ball in space and attempts to slash, which is undoubtedly his best (perhaps only) weapon.

    He repeatedly makes mistakes that even I know is unacceptable. The biggest mistake being, as someone pointed to above, picking up his dribble at completely inopportune times. I grew up playing rec league basketball and that’s the extent of my personal bball experience as I wrestled in highschool, and even I know that you don’t pick up your dribble on top of the midcourt line. He did last night numerous times. Additionally he picks up his dribble often with his back to the goal with no idea where the ball is to go next. I point to these mistakes not as those that a college player makes while forced to play out of position, but as mistakes that a 13 year old playing Might Might knows not to make. Bottom line: I saw several guys last night break the press much better than GG does. He’s possibly our worst ball handler and yet he inherets the point when Atsur goes down? I don’t get it.

    Further, GG seems to loaf to rebounds, he throws bad passes and flails his arms at his teammate who can’t leap to save them, he points to his chest after hitting one in 5 shots, he doesn’t scrap for loose balls, he loafs back on D as our first man at the top of the key in transition. I’ve seen McCauley come out from under the basket and beat GG down the court in transition D. Please explain that to me….

    I’ve got no problem with this team losing. Everyone knew this year would be a tough year for us. However, I can’t handle going to games and watching guys like GG, heralded for being possible NBA-worthy talent, play half-ass basketball.

    I don’t pretend to have the answer to this, but I’m discouraged about where this means we’ll be even next year. I truly believe the poster above should have added GG in the list of names who might not see any playing time next year with the incoming class… minus a major attitude adjustment.

    I, too, feel for Big Ben. He plays gutsy ball, and I think he should be pointed to as an example for the other guys on the team to try to live up to. If everyone left it on the court like BM does, I think the losses this year would be much closer. Closer losses being key as I don’t think we’ll win but a handful of games the rest of the year. And again, I can live with that if we’re building for the future with the guys that are getting PT.

    Horner has disappointed me in prior games, too. My hat goes off to him for stepping up last night and keeping us somewhat close. He hit big shots, and played like he is getting comfortable on the court.

  16. Rick 01/10/2007 at 8:58 AM #

    “We wanted Sendek to leave and he left. No reason to hate him for that”

    I do not hate him for leaving. I do not hate him at all.
    But what incompetent moron would think this collection of players could do anything substantial? Don’t get me wrong, I appreciate each one of the players and somet of them have significant talent (albeti a comlete lack of playing experience) but this is simply a collection of players. It is not a team.
    This group was not put together with any rhyme or reason. There is no PG, there is no power player, there is one player with any speed, there is no experience, there is precious little shooting.We lack more than we have.
    For the life of me I cannot fathom anyone purposefully putting this group together and sitting back and saying “this is a team I can win with”.

    As for Furgeson, I agree with your assesment. The people talking up his transfer were the same ones that called Simmons (the tall white one) the next Nowitski. It was the Herb talking head squad that made it sound liek he would do something. I hope I am wrong.

    The talent portion is working itself out. Notice the first class Lowe recruited has two power players and two PGs? That is not a coincidence. So my biggest concern is our lack of defense. I cannot figure out if it is our lack of speed, our lack of experience or just a lack of effort. Next year should be a better indicator of this.

    I want to thank Sid for laying on the hand grenade.

  17. wolfonthehill 01/10/2007 at 9:02 AM #

    Sorry – but I can’t resist.

    I was blasted for posting after the BC loss that this team, if it continues to play as it currently is playing, could go 0-16 in the league. Today, I see that a comment predicting 1-15 or 2-14 is highlighted as “SPOT ON”.

    I stick with my feeling that this team could go 0-16 in the league if it can’t (1) handle the ball, (2) play even 35 minutes of defense, and (3) develop some semblence of rhythm on offense. The only games I see as good possibilities for wins are home vs Maryland and Wake. The others are, to me, longshots.

  18. zahadum 01/10/2007 at 9:05 AM #

    I agree that Trevor is not likely to ever be a superstar. But his career is only 5 games old, and that after a long layoff. Lets not throw him under the bus just yet.

    As to defense, agree that the effort could be much better. But another key to defense is quickness, something this team has not a shred of. (Grant is forward quick, but he’s not guard quick.) I felt coming into this year this, and not the lack of depth, was our most glaring weakness. It hurts in all kinds of ways, such as making us much easier to screen, fighting through screens, closing out on shooters, doubling down and then getting back to the weak side, and so on.

    Sid may need to rethink his committment to man defense and go more zone as the year goes on. Of course that would hurt rebounding, which is not exactly a strength either. Could be a Catch-22 kind of year, strategy wise.

  19. smfrank 01/10/2007 at 9:10 AM #

    A couple of things.

    First, you guys shouldn’t knock Ferguson yet. He hasn’t seen real game action in 2 years, he was thrown in on a team in the middle of the season, he’s playing with guys who aren’t looking to get him the ball, and I seriously think he’s being encouraged to “take his time” by Lowe. The guy was the only guy on the perimeter playing any sort of defense.

    Second, These turnovers are pathetic. Gavin especially. I’m ok with aggressive turnovers while trying to push the ball to the hole, but please learn how to get the ball to the wing. There is no reason why the ball should go out of bounds on the first pass 3 times in an ACC game.

    Third – to Gavin & Courtney. You get beat on defense. That’s ok. But don’t just stand there and watch afterwards – get in the paint, try to get a steal; look for the open perimeter man, don’t allow an easy 3. Too many times they get beat on defense and then watch.

  20. zahadum 01/10/2007 at 9:16 AM #

    Also meant to say that I think the coaches need to have a chat with Grant about his attitude re: his quote after the game that: “I ain’t no point guard.” Yes, he’s playing out of position, but Illian had to do that for 3 years. Sometimes you just have to suck it up and take one for the team.

  21. jwolf 01/10/2007 at 9:21 AM #

    Look, I am going to give Sid a chance since this is his first year with the team and the amount of players are limited, but I feel the coaching staff could do a damn better job of teaching right now. Teach the team how to beat a press because we are going to see it the rest of the year in the ACC. Teach the team that defense is #1 and it is what wins championships. Play hard on defense and offense will come on its own….this is TRUE! And conditioning, Sid needs to work his team harder in practice and get them in better shape if we that is going to be our excuse for not playing defense (not enough bodies and we are too gassed). I mean come on, Duke consistently plays with 6 or 7 guys year in and year out….no more than that usually, and they pride themselves on “in your face defense” and a defense that gets out in the passing lanes.

    As if football wasn’t sad enough, this is getting really sad. Play some defense fellas and if you are tired let a walk on come on and play a minute for you. Neiman coming off the bench for a minute would benefit our team more than Gavin Grant lolly gagging on defense (sp?) and then coming down the court and turning the ball over because he is “tired”!

  22. packbackr04 01/10/2007 at 9:21 AM #

    t ferguson is garbage. he does nothing productive. sit his ass on the pine and put Nieman in, at least he tries.

  23. Wulfpack 01/10/2007 at 9:21 AM #

    ^Exactly. Believe me Gavin, we all see clear as day that you “ain’t no point guard.” He has an opportunity here. Hell, all 6 of these guys have tremendous opportunities. Most of them wouldn’t sniff the ACC floor playing for anyone but NCSU. Some are relishing the moment and making the most of it. Others are making excuses. We’re not asking you to be superman.

  24. Wulfpack 01/10/2007 at 9:25 AM #

    And one more thing Gavin: McCauley aint no center and he’s doing yeoman’s work down there…you should try it sometime.

  25. jwolf 01/10/2007 at 9:41 AM #

    I agree totally that McCauley is having a great year on the offensive side of the ball. His pivot moves remind me some of Patrick Ewing (some, not a lot, but some) in that he can cover a lot of ground between him and the basket by making some great pivot moves. With that said, and maybe because he is not a true center, his defense is lacking big time. At least he does show a little more effort than some of our guards, but there were times last night when he was getting killed in the post. No one simply went over top of him, they were just killing him with spin moves and such. And you don’t see him getting a ton of rebounds either on the defensive side of the court. I may be wrong on that, don’t have the stats in front of me, just didn’t seem like he had a good night on the defensive side of the ball last night.

    Now Costner, I got no problem with him. He fights hard and has been pretty consistent for us on the offensive AND defensive side of the floor. Whether it is rebounding or scoring, he has been fairly consistent with his effort. I don’t blame him for getting a little crazy and forcing up some shots, good players who want “it” do that from time to time.

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