SFN’s Take: TOB > PJ

SFN has been hearing from a variety of sources that Boston College head man Tom O’Brien has emerged as a serious contender for the NC State job. As you may know, O’Brien has taken some heat from the Eagle faithful for not being able to get BC over the proverbial hump. While we agree that O’Brien may have maxed out what he is able to accomplish in Beantown, we do not believe that his ceiling would necessarily be limited at NC State.

O’Brien is supposedly willing to make a move because Boston is a pro sports town, almost exclusively. BC also has a small alumni base, which has led to good Eagle teams getting subpar bowl bids. The argument is that better bowls would lead to more recruiting momentum, as would a thriving, college-town environment – and ultimately, a chance at more success at NC State.

Of course, you might note that you could say the same thing about Paul Johnson. There is some truth to that. However, we believe that Tom O’Brien has some clear advantages over PJ – (i) BCS conference experience; (ii) has recruited at least some premium athletes; (iii) less potential to be negatively recruited against successfully; and (iv) a stronger staff (with pretty remarkable continuity).

O’Brien is no spring chicken, but young enough (58) to have a good ten year run at NC State. Plus, we already know his likely “floor” – 7-9 win seasons, which would at least get NC State into good bowl games periodically. We also think that it is reasonable to hope for greater success (contention for ACC titles) with a fresh start and a different environment to work in. Is it guaranteed? No. But nobody is going to be a sure thing here. SFN thinks that O’Brien would be a very good choice.

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General NCS Football Tom O'Brien

336 Responses to SFN’s Take: TOB > PJ

  1. slushy1975 12/06/2006 at 1:48 PM #

    A Tom O’Brien selection would be a solid hire that gives Wolfpack Nation a likely “floor” regarding win-loss records. But the why the emphasis on a “floor” that limits the losses and betters our chances of yearly Tire Bowl or Emerald Bowl or Car Care Bowl appearances? This is an inherently defeatist attitude that bolsters the contention that our Athletic Dept, whether true or not, won’t reach for the stars at the expense of departmental cashflow. Yes, we’ll win but we’ll never turn this “Corner” which so many dream of around Raleigh. Season ticket holders didn’t invest 8-figures for a baseline of success that Coach Amato promised would be his “floor.”

    Paul Johnson is a “risky” hire because, at best, he’s had success at smaller schools and doesn’t bring rock solid offensive scheme to the table. At least, he won’t reveal his cards and Navy’s athletic limitations conceal PJ’s true offensive ability as it pertains to the mid-2000’s style of college football. To use a spread option, in conjunction with the arm of Harrison Beck or Justin Burke, will prevent crowding the box yet open passing opportunities that weren’t there or weren’t exploited in 2006. You run conservative offenses when you don’t have the talent for more complexity. We’ve done it on offense the past two years with LESS success than Navy.

    If we hope to hedge against losses, let’s hire Tom O’Brien and settle in for 8-4 records and second place in the division. You know what? That’s spells success in ANY super conference. But, when we beat Va Tech for first place in any given year, get ready to roll over for UVA or Maryland or the other mid-tier times, right now, that seem to spoil BC and Clemson’s party every year.

    If we hope for a higher return, let’s hire the coach with an offense that isn’t well understand and can be made as complex or as simple as our personnel demands. At worst, our current passing game stays awful but the running WILL improve dramaticly. Are Andre and Tony the studs? We would see, wouldn’t we?

    In either situation, we’ll be a better football team. My point is – do we play it safe and get comfy with a constant 2nd, 3rd or 4th place yearly? Or, do we roll the dice with a coach whose offense could revolutionize our team beyond imagination or into the unknown depths (which is where we are now). Besides, Mike Leach says his Texas Tech offense is basically the same scheme, yet pass oriented to the tune of 65% or more throwing.

    I think it’s time to get up off the “floor” and try jumping as high as possible. The “safer” the choice, the more likely we’ll be solid but unspectacular. It’s like stocks and bonds in terms of hiring philosophy.

    Either way, we’ll be successful is just that we must consider the best path to reaching that “greener” pasture.

    Thanks for reading.

  2. ATL_eagle 12/06/2006 at 1:50 PM #

    Here is my take

    http://atleagle.blogspot.com/2006/12/statefans-nation-and-tob.html

    TOB would be more consistent than Amato, but I don’t think he will ever win the ACC at NC State.

  3. dirtystev 12/06/2006 at 1:52 PM #

    I hate to be negative but we have made a big mistake. Jimbo is now out of the picture because PJ didn’t like being a number two on our short list. Where do we go from hear you ask? After a week of talks that lead to PJ taking a job with another school we will miss the best deal to date and be left holding the bag. So look for another 5-6 years of getting kicked around by the ACC and Media along with knowing that you missed out on two of the best coordinators in the country Jimbo Fisher and Bo Pelini. A Good Luck goes out to Jimbo in his new position as head coach at West Virgina.

  4. Rick 12/06/2006 at 1:55 PM #

    GAwolf,
    Excellent point

    Having LF head our athletic dept is like hiring Droopy to manage your mutual funds.

  5. CaptainCraptacular 12/06/2006 at 1:56 PM #

    *Well Capt’. Seems we both are a little guilty of homework negligence. I in mistakingly misrepresenting TOB’s bowl record and you in getting the coach’s record wrong. Sheridan’s best was 9-3. Amato’s best was 11-3. Sheridan never hit double-digit wins. :)*

    sorry, what was inaccurate about my statement? I didn’t get the record wrong. I said our best since Sheridan was 11-3 and our best with Sheridan was 3 losses.

  6. statered 12/06/2006 at 2:00 PM #

    I am friends with some BC alums and they would love for us to take TOB. I think they feel like many of us did in regards to Herb. If the people who are in the best position to know don’t want him neither do I.

  7. class of 74 12/06/2006 at 2:02 PM #

    Hey PQ we get you don’t like PJ but you have no valid arguments against him just a personal vendetta. I don’t like TOB because he’s very bland and I think he’s possibly coming into a situation that’s going to need a little more color and energy than he brings, especially at his age. But as a coach he is a proven winner in fact they are both proven whether you want to admit it or not!

    Face it we are not recognized as a football school so top shelf candidates are not beating our door down to be considered. If we get PJ or TOB and get their track record of winning we are ahead of the game from where we’ve been. Just please whatever we do don’t get some WCO type in here with 20 pass plays per game that never go more than 7 yards. I’ve seen enough of that for a lifetime.

  8. wolpfack 12/06/2006 at 2:07 PM #

    ^class of 74 – I would be willing to argue that Jimbo (although not an HC…the only reason people seem to dislike him on here) would be considered by many to be a “top shelf candidate[]”

    personally, by not interviewing him, I think Fowl-up F’ed-up…

  9. 98st8 12/06/2006 at 2:07 PM #

    SFN: TWO Questions:

    1.Why is it ok for Oklahoma and Georgia to hire high profile assistant coaches, but we (NC STATE) are apparently above that???

    2.Why in the hell would we cancel an interview with a high profile assistant coach from the SEC if we don’t have another coach under contract??? What harm would come from talking to the guy?

  10. Buddygreen 12/06/2006 at 2:09 PM #

    There’s a lot of good coached out there that want the job. I just really hope that we didn’t schedule an interview with Fisher and then actually cancelled it and then let that leak to the press. The least I was hoping for was a sense of professionalism regarding the search. The thing that botheres me is how little a circle of influence and help Fowler has employeed during his search. Cowher offers his assistance freely as well as others but its my understanding we not seeking the advice of those that could tell us which direction we should steer. Bottom line is we will not know what kind of job the coach will do until down the road. Bill Walsh built an empire with the 49ers, but only had limited success at Stanford by some people’s opinion. Interesting to watch some of you talk down on conservative coaches. One of best coaches in college football is Tressel at OSU and he can be very conservative at times. Defense wins and keeps you in games. Good game plan, execution, and adjustments win games on offense. Amato teams played hard yet foolishly and we got out coached during the game. I will always respet Amato for the effort his players had and the pure player development in installed in his players. NFL teams liked Amato players. The were in shape for sure. I think that is an important key to what is attracting so many coaches to NCSU. Amato didn’t leave a mess, we got lots of hard working, great athletes coming back. I had hoped we would keep Todd Stroud, he knows what he is doing. The main names I am hearing are all good hires, Amato was a good hire. Time will tell if it will be a great hire, all else is speculation. But I do know our next coach will not have near as big of a challenge as Bruce Davis, as Woody Durham called him, at UNX has. he has players that gave up and quit during games. Davis will have to change that. Our coach will not have to waste him time fixing that. Our guys show up to play. They just need someone to point them in the right direction.

  11. RedTerror29 12/06/2006 at 2:12 PM #

    Is hiring a high-profile assistant below us? No. But as choppack has illustrated, hiring assistants has had a higher failure rate in the ACC (which we saw first-hand with Chuck). A high-profile assistant certainly doesn’t automatically deserve consideration over a stud HC at a lower-tier school.

    As far as not interviewing Fisher – that’s just stupid. Why close doors before a coach is signed, sealed, and delivered? Of course, that may be the case and we may just not know it yet, but given Fowler’s track record – I’m very, very concerned right now.

  12. dirtystev 12/06/2006 at 2:16 PM #

    98st8 — I concur why in the hell would you not look at a proven SEC winner? I love being a fan of a underachieving athletics program.

  13. 98st8 12/06/2006 at 2:18 PM #

    ^ with all due respect, Chuck was not a high profile assistant. Just because you are an assistant at a big time school does not make you what I am calling a “high-profile asst”.He was never ever mentioned for any head coaching jobs until we came along. Jimbo is mentioned for many of them

  14. Clarksa 12/06/2006 at 2:20 PM #

    ^by all accounts, Coach Amato had plenty of opportunities to leave FSU…but he only wanted one job, NC State.

  15. Dan 12/06/2006 at 2:31 PM #
  16. BoKnowsNCS71 12/06/2006 at 2:32 PM #

    Does anyone find it ironic that BC (Tom O’Brian) is facing Navy (Paul Johnson) in the Meineke Car Care Bowl on December 30th? Can’t recall when two people considered for the same job played head to head like this.

    Right now early odds have BC -7 but score estimates are more like 30-17 and 27-14 with BC winning.

  17. fan4life 12/06/2006 at 2:33 PM #

    If I am not mistaken, Boston College plays Navy in the Mineke Car Care Bowl on December 30 in Charlotte, NC. The same one NC State was in last year against USF. What about we wait and sees who wins that game to decide who we want as our head coach of the PACK! Seems ironic that those two teams are playing each other.

  18. partialqualifier 12/06/2006 at 2:36 PM #

    classof74:

    I have many, many valid arguments against Paul Johnson. I have listed them enough the last three days, so I’m not going there again. I do not have a personal vendetta against anyone, but why say that about me and then list “being bland” as your reasons for not supporting O’Brien? Yhat sounds a hell of a lot more personal than my questions about Johnson’s recruiting, offense, and hiring assistants.

  19. wolfpacker55 12/06/2006 at 2:41 PM #

    Let me get this straight: Jimbo and Pelini (both Rivals.com top-5 coordinators and top recruiters) present themselves as a package deal and Folwer calls Jimbo a b-lister. Jimbo apparently says now he’s not interested? Sounds like “Coach” is back to his ol’ tricks. Do we have an assistant in the atletic dept. that can run this search???

  20. GrandWolf 12/06/2006 at 2:47 PM #

    From CaptainCraptacular: “I didn’t get the record wrong. I said our best since Sheridan was 11-3 and our best with Sheridan was 3 losses.”

    You are correct. My apologies. I associated it w/ Sheridan’s best was 11-3. My mistake.

  21. RedTerror29 12/06/2006 at 2:48 PM #

    Quick question: Did Rivals.com rate Fisher and Pelini based solely on recruiting prowess, coaching ability, or both? I know Fisher is regarded as an excellent recruiter and LSU is widely believed to have the most talent in the SEC, but I was not impressed by LSU’s offense in their games I saw this year.

  22. partialqualifier 12/06/2006 at 2:48 PM #

    In my personal opinion….

    The Top 5 (as I see it should be…based on the current situation and availability)

    1-Steve Kragthorpe
    2-Skip Holtz
    3-Jimbo Fisher
    4-Tom O’Brien
    5-Mike Leach

    I think there are AT Least 5 coaches better than Johnson that we would have a realistic chance at getting if we went after them.

  23. MadWolf92 12/06/2006 at 2:49 PM #

    Cardiff, how do you know we *didn’t* contact Leach? Maybe he’s not interested in us, but is interested in Miami. Isn’t the point of using Neinas so that such opinions don’t hit the mainstream?

  24. dirtystev 12/06/2006 at 2:50 PM #

    We should look for a different package deal consisting of a new Athletic Director w/ Football coach. Fowler turned Two Top 5 assistants away. Nice JOB HILLBILLY!

  25. wolfpacker55 12/06/2006 at 2:59 PM #

    They were rated as coordinators which usually comes with the duty of recruiting players. Jimbo has been credited with being Saban’s architect in the LSU rebuilding. Pelini was a candidate at Nebraska and would’ve been a great fit for a few seasons as DC to get Jimbo settled in. Apparently Coach has made that a formality.

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