NC State 64, ECU 57 (whew) [Updated 11pm]

06-07 Basketball General72

Here’s the recap. The Pack dodged a very embarrassing bullet (unlike BC, who fell to Duquesne). Ferguson missed the game with the flu, depriving us yet again of witnessing a robust 7-man rotation.

Please discuss below, especially if you were there tonight.

The following are some quick bytes from Jeff:

* Playing ECU in basketball couldn’t be more strange. State people could seriously care less about beating the Pirates but would consider it a half-step away from Armageddon if the Pack ever lost to the Pirates.

* Tonight’s win makes it 17-0 vs the Pirates with an average margin of victory over 22 points per game. And, tonight represents the closest that ECU may ever get to the Pack in the foreseeable future.

* Dear Lee Fowler- just like football, there are LOTS of reasons that this game hasn’t been scheduled since 1982. What the *#*@ do you think that you know that the five Athletics Directors before you didn’t know? Tonight’s game should have NEVER been scheduled for this season (Coach Lowe’s first year). What’s worse is how it still has not been made public – despite lots of attention on this website – that Lee Fowler may have signed NC State up to actually travel TO Greenville in future years to play basketball in Greenville. We will continue to wait and see.

* What I do know is that Terry Holland is powerful in the world of college athletics and Lee Fowler would never do anything to be in conflict with someone like Holland. Doesn’t matter that NC State hasn’t scheduled ECU in over 23 years. Doesn’t matter that no ACC school of stature has ever traveled to Greenville for a basketball game. Only matters how Lee can make someone powerful happy in the event he ever needs a reference.

* Ben McCauley saved the Pack in the first half. Brandon Costner saved the Pack in the second half. And Courtney Fells played one of his most complete games of the season. It is very nice to see him continue to evolve into the kind of player that he can be. Dennis Horner won’t be mentioned by a lot of folks, but the kid started and contributed important minutes (and shots) for us.

* Is it acceptable yet to whisper just a little criticism about Gavin Grant’s play? Having to suck it up for the team and play point guard has little to do with many of his bad decisions some of the listless play that results in unforced turnovers that are puzzling.

* It was a littler hard to notice because ECU did us a little bit of a favor by playing zone in the second half, but Coach Lowe deserves a TON of credit for taking the ball out of Grant’s hands in the second half and shifting Courtney Fells to the ‘point’ of our offensive attack. State only turned the ball over twice in the entire second half after the move.

* Stat of the game: State shot 31 free throws to the ECU’s 9.

* State ended up at almost 68% from the free throw line…but, it sure didn’t feel that good. (Not that 68% is necessarily good free throw shooting).

* The Wolfpack now is past the half-way mark for wins required to get an NIT bid (15). State still has two out of conference games that should be wins and will hopefully boost us to ten before conference play begins in earnest on January 6th vs Boston College.

* Have you looked at our schedule until the middle of January? HOME GAMES GALORE vs the likes of Boston College, Virginia, Clemson and Duke after UNC-G and UNC-W and before having to hit the road in the conference. Simply put – the next three weeks will be the deciding factor on postseason play for the Wolfpack.

* Engin Atsur’s health will be talked about a lot in the coming weeks. With him the Pack could make a mini-run that would set us up nicely for the NIT and at least position us to dream about some upsets and an NCAA Tournament berth. Without him we will have to claw for everything we can get to keep momentum towards 15 wins and the NIT. This team has shown that they can do it.

* Did you know that the NC State-ECU football series was halted because of a fight between the teams in 1987? I was at the 1987 game and don’t recall seeing NC State players take part in a fight. I recall ECU’s fans storming NC State’s field to destroy property (on a more grand scale than they had after 1985 and the warning’s from NC State the followed 1985). You learn something new from ESPN(U) every time you turn on the television.

* Speaking of the announcing, Doug Gottlieb made some real jackass remarks during the game that were pretty embarassing. As Gottlieb literally was sitting UNDER TWO NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP BANNERS and TEN ACC CHAMPIONSHIP BANNERS, he was chirping away about NC State’s fanbase being “totally unrealistic” in wanting to win National Championships. Considering that there are only five (out of 320) basketball programs in America to win more National Titles than NC State then I wonder who the hell should expect to try to win titles?

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About BJD95

1995 NC State graduate, sufferer of Les and MOC during my entire student tenure. An equal-opportunity objective critic and analyst of Wolfpack sports.

06-07 Basketball General

72 Responses to NC State 64, ECU 57 (whew) [Updated 11pm]

  1. ncsslim 12/29/2006 at 1:46 PM #

    I believe there is way too much leaway given on the “out-of-position” point regarding Gavin. Most of the issues I have with him are poor decisions that could just as easily happen with a 3 getting a rebound and slinging it aimlessly up court as the poor kindred soul forced to play out of position. He’s a supposedly talented third year player on a team without appreciable experience. We need that poised experience, not the trainwreck that Gavin is starting to become. Hopefullly, Gavin can get his confidence back and end the year like he began it.

  2. packbackr04 12/29/2006 at 2:11 PM #

    has anyone heard about the possibility of Sid playing the football players? were they dressed out last night? if not, why not? when are we gonna see them play? i would love to see it. at the very least it will help the starters catch a breath when we start acc play, to avoid the stamina issues that many here think we will have. And to get them in now would be a good idea so as you wouldnt just be putting them in for the first time right in the middle of the duke game or something like that. throwing them in the perverbial lions den. get those kids some burn Sid!

  3. DRW 12/29/2006 at 2:25 PM #

    packbackr: I think that football players are on the team just for practice players.

  4. packbackr04 12/29/2006 at 2:41 PM #

    drw^^ are they not good enough to play? i thought someone said they were legit D1 basketball prospects coming out of highschool? they cant be any worse than what we have seen the past couple of games can they, granted we won last night, but it has looked pretty bad for us recently. it may be that they light a fire under the “iron 5” and it gets them to pick up their game a little bit. you know, a little competition. just my thoughts, and obviously sid is more qualified to make that kind of decision, i ma just giving my opinion.

    btw^ i just emailed “the pulse” Doug Gottlieb’s show on espn radio and told them how disgusted i was with the commentary last night. is it too much to get some positive press from the national media every once in a while?

  5. packbackr04 12/29/2006 at 2:52 PM #

    are we “getting what we deserve” yet?????? o thats right, ASU is 6-6 right now. with losses to davidson, portland state, and northern arizona?!?!?!
    while i am not ready to crown sid as the coming of our savior, i am pleased with the results thus far… and gosh i bet ben mcCauley would run through a brick wall if Sid told him to

  6. 82grad 12/29/2006 at 4:59 PM #

    everyone calm down, we barely beat ezu, who suck.
    ben m. hasn’t played against any competition yet, so let’s wait and see on his all-america status.
    atsur shutting someone down? sorry, still waiting to see that.

    remember, this is a rebuilding year.

  7. vtpackfan 12/29/2006 at 5:07 PM #

    Whatever becomes of the pg position this year it has direct consequences on next year. Degand is replacing Atsur, so we are in the same boat as far as a back up is concerned (unless Sid reels one in by the late signing period). It’s good to see Courtney in the mix to give Lowe the opportunity to look at more options. I’d hate to see all his momemtum in recruiting get diverted by having to take someone last minute, essentially burning up a scholly.

    Whats up with Big Lew, has he redshirted yet?

  8. Spin Wolf 12/29/2006 at 5:19 PM #

    With regards to the idiotic comments by the announcers, if Mrs. Ernie Myers would do her damn job those would happen much less often.

    It’s called Media Relations 101 – have an intern monitor the broadcast, and then hand the broadcast crew corrections and suggestions at each break. It’s so easy a monkey could do it – and that’s how I make my living. 🙂

  9. NCStateDud92 12/29/2006 at 5:24 PM #

    “ben m. hasn’t played against any competition yet”

    I know, wait until he plays a serious team.

    Signed,

    (#10) Alabama

  10. geojim1990 12/29/2006 at 6:25 PM #

    Spin Wolf hit the nail on the head (^). You must assume that the sports media arn’t going to do their job, which is why you have media relations; to do the work for them so they don’t have a chance to get it wrong (that, & to spread your propaganda). But in order for this system to work your media relations staff can’t also be lazy. Ms Vaughn-Meyers isn’t the problem, she’s just a symptom. She’s just an extension of the Athletics Administration which can not have a high work ethic standard for her because they would soon have to hold the same standard to themselves. Replace Fowler & his assistants with quality & then see who can’t cut the mustard with the new standard. That being said, I think it’s pretty safe to say that Annebelle will be out on her ear.

    NC State has everything in place to be a real force in college athletics: facilities, a large fan-base that’s just itching to help ignite the energy behind both the footbal & basketball programs (which would spill over into the olympic sports programs eventually), a founding member of a great conference. But instead of a hard working visionary leading all that potential we have someone who just wants to coast. I don’t think Fowler is stupid, I just think he’s lazy. NC State should act with some urgency because you can’t assume that everything that the university has going for it will still be in place when Fowler decides to start collecting a pension & leave on his own.

  11. Clarksa 12/29/2006 at 8:03 PM #

    RickJ,

    Upon further review of the Michigan schedule, your call on the field is correct.

    …but at least at the moment when Michigan plays, the annoucers can say the only two teams they lost to were UCLA and NC State. 🙂

  12. redfred2 12/29/2006 at 8:16 PM #

    geojim1990: Totally agree! Check out my final wordy post on the previous “Mandel:…” thread.

    Whether he is or not, Lee Fowler has shown to be a very near sighted and hum drum individual holding a position that requires vision and imagination that only comes from within. Following the crowd in Raleigh leads to, well, nothing but following the crowd in Raleigh. If everyone in the NCSU administration is going to continue to feed solely off of one another, then the athletics programs will continue to reflect that lack lustre group’s persona, and second rate is where we’ll stay.

    Oblinger apparently cannot grasp the importance of athletics, Lee Fowler apparently does have the drive or vision, and lacks the ability to adhere to goals or lead the way, so until there is person who isn’t afraid to go off in a new direction with the vision and set goals of their own, then we will continue to be stuck in the reality of a “once upon a time glorious past” that will never come to fruition again. It just plainly deserves better, starting with better people in the highest positions.

  13. xphoenix87 12/30/2006 at 2:15 AM #

    82grad, Big Ben has posted great numbers against Michigan and Cinci, both good teams with good post players, and against Alabama, who is an elite team with one of the top frontcourts in the nation. That’s better competition than most big men in the nation have seen, and he’s looked great so far. We’ll see how things turn out during conference play, but saying that he hasn’t played any good competition is rubbish. Also, your comment about Atsur is ridiculous. Though we don’t know how quickly he’ll recover from his injury, Engin has been one of the better defensive guards in the conference for the last few years. How bout next time you say something intelligent, or just keep it to yourself.

    I’m fine with Gavin having some turnovers while playing out of position. That’s going to happen. However, he has a history over the past few years of making really bone-headed plays and being a turnover machine. I literally used to wince every time he touched the ball in a critical situation last year. Out of position or not, he has to cut down on his turnovers.

    To me, Costner looks like a young Rasheed Wallace much more than a young Tayshawn Prince (for one, Prince probably weighed 150 soaking wet when he was at Kentucky). He’s got the post moves and the sweet lefty stroke from outside. His ceiling his huge, I think he’ll be a lot of fun to watch over the next few years.

  14. dj9686 12/30/2006 at 2:35 AM #

    Hey, didn’t we, in the last couple years, play ECU in one of those lame tournaments that Herb brought here that featured no one who should finish the season with a winning record other than State?

  15. dj9686 12/30/2006 at 2:46 AM #

    oops, I missed those comments above. Not to blame everything on Herb, but for his first eight years, maybe seven, he never tried to recruit a true point guard. And then after that his offense got the reputation of not being one where a real point guard could shine or was even needed if you listen to the Princeton O’ philosophy–so, when we went after Paul, Shakur, Gilchrist (thank God he rejected us) and the like, they didn’t want to come here. I don’t believe that Atsur was recruited at the No. 1 spot. And, no one has mentioned this, but if Engin had rested a bit over the summer rather than playing on the Turkish National Team, would his body be as beat up as it is with the achilies and hamstring?

    As far as future point guards we do have Degand next year as well as Johnny Thomas coming in and the following year we have the PG from Indiana. So, we’ll be three deep in two years. Not too shabby for a team that hasn’t recruited three pure PG’s in the last 10 years.

  16. Rochester 12/30/2006 at 7:40 AM #

    Johnny Thomas is not a point guard, he’s a small forward. Next year we have Degand and that’s it. It would really be beneficial if we could come up with someone else, because we’ve seen what happens if your only option gets hurt.

  17. vtpackfan 12/30/2006 at 8:56 AM #

    Exactly Roch^
    Maybe we could see Fells fill this nich. Besides seeming to have a calmness about him and the obvious athletic gifts, he has also proven to be a hard nosed man to man defender. While pg will not be a natural fit, it may be an easier hurdle to manage then say GG doing the same. GG had more minutes under his belt and was vocal about taking a leadership role so I think its obvious to see why the reigns were handed to him first. All in all its still just a season to sit back and watch the wheels turn because everything will be different in the coming years, i.e. depth, athleticism, proper balance, rebounding, shot blocking, coaching experience.., so let’s sit back and watch em’ compete.

  18. redfred2 12/30/2006 at 10:48 AM #

    I could only speculate, but it would seem that a 6’4″ guard with collegiate experience would be next in line for the point guard spot, seemingly even before GG, and especially before inserting Trevor Ferguson, a young player who hasn’t seen any time on the court, in that leadership position.

    That one has had me somewhat puzzled from the start. The only thing I can figure is that GG stepped up and accepted the responsiblity, and maybe Fells shyed away early on.

  19. vtpackfan 12/30/2006 at 1:29 PM #

    “maybe Fells shyed away early on.”

    I think it also could be a case of Lowe getting to know his team. It gaoing to take most of the year, especially with some more ACC games played for Coach to get a deeper appreciation for the team he has. It is all part of the ongoing process that we should sit back and enjoying watching.

    The reason I brought this up is that Fells is a soft spoken young man from Mississippi, totall different that individuals that ussually come out of the Bronx. If all Sid had to go on was a few weeks of practice and what they were saying to him then it’s easy, IMHO, to see hw things got to be the way they are.

  20. blpack 12/30/2006 at 7:25 PM #

    Shame on DG for those dumb comments. He is losing cool points all the time at our house. Get a few assists at Second Chance U. and it gives him the right to say whatever he wants.

    There is no reason to ever play ECU in hoops in G-vegas and no reason to go there for football after next season. Show some imagination in scheduling LF.

    Lee, I am your father.
    Terry.

  21. redfred2 12/31/2006 at 10:50 PM #

    vt

    Agreed on all of that about Fells. Like you say, there is no doubt that Sidney and staff are scrambling too. They’re still trying to come up with the right combination of mismatched parts in order to put the best quality product on the court this season. I am pretty stoked about all of the excitement and the all of accolades that are now being focused in the right direction. That praise is now being placed on the players themselves, the ones who actually play the game in Wolfpack uniforms, instead of the coaches. I knew that Lowe would prove that these kids were much better than they had previously shown, but they are even better than that. In all of the time leading up to this season, I do not recall a single post from any one of us on this site, that came anywhere close to predicting what McCauley and Costner have shown us so far. There just hadn’t enough evidence allowed in order to make any predictions in that way.

    This is when it’s fun!!! When we as fans, can watch as young players get better and better, recognizing that they want to do more and more with each passing game, and that they know that we are feeling it too, and that we, fans and players alike, are all appreciating the effort and loving every minute of it. Irregardless of the scores, this is what makes the time between basketball games seem to drag on for an eternity.

    I am not expecting anything more than what I’m seeing, but I can’t remember when I was this impatient waiting for the next game to happen. Early eighties would be a be good guess though. Hell, I’ve even picked up a basketball and started playing in the yard again. I feel kinda like quoting George C. Scott, as Patton, when he looked over an ancient battlefield and said, “God help me, but I do love it so.”

    Damn, I am really turning into a drama queen in my old age. Oh well, sorry.

  22. 82grad 01/01/2007 at 7:43 PM #

    “How bout next time you say something intelligent, or just keep it to yourself.”

    because your opinion is the only one that counts. o.k. mr. tough guy, i get it.

    are you one of the many on here who predicted an acc football championship after we beat bc and fsu? how’s that working out for ya?

    just trying to bring some level headedness around here.

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