What Happened, Chuck? (Updated 11/12)

'06 Football Chuck Amato General105

State is close again but Clemson knocks the Wolfpack out of any of Chuck Amato’s ridiculous bowl dreams (ahhh, Boise in December) and the losing streak continues.

That is now FIVE IN A ROW with the opportunity to drop two more to our most heated rivals – UNC-CH and East Carolina. (Link to Sunday morning’s Caulton Tudor piece – “Heels could make Pack squirm”

N.C. State and Chuck Amato will walk into a situation that smacks of an ambush this coming weekend in Kenan Stadium.

In what will be Carolina coach John Bunting’s final home game, his players would like nothing more than to carry him off the field with an outcome that could put Amato’s coaching future in jeopardy.

Amato already is in hot water with the fans as his seventh season winds down. His overall ACC record is 25-30. A third straight loss to the Tar Heels, particularly these Tar Heels, would be enough to put Amato’s job security in jeopardy and to create the same sort of speculation and scrutiny that Bunting experienced.

On paper, this State-Carolina game looks like a dud. A 1-9 team under a lame-duck coach against a 3-7 opponent on a five-game losing streak. But given the potential stakes, there’s good reason for high suspense.

State is now guaranteed our second losing season in the last three years. So, we thought that it was most appropriate to refer back to Chuck Amato’s
post-game comments
from EXACTLY two years ago today! On November 12, 2004:

You could have the best defense in the country and yet not go to a bowl. Would you have ever believed that?

This is the first losing season this great university has had in seven or eight years, but it won’t happen again.

To be honest…we can TOTALLY understand how Chuck Amato could have felt so comfortable making that kind of statement. Take a look at the recruiting success that had produced the high-level of talent that Chuck knew was in the program.

Considering the strength of the talent in the program at the time and the obvious momentum that was still being enjoyed by the Pack in 2004, OF COURSE Amato would have never been able to have foreseen failure like the Pack is having AGAIN this year. Any coach who hasn’t been able to see his deficiencies that have existed for seven years is sure as hell not going to be able to foresee the future impact of shitty coaching on the talent for the future.

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'06 Football Chuck Amato General

105 Responses to What Happened, Chuck? (Updated 11/12)

  1. MrPerfectionest 11/12/2006 at 9:15 PM #

    “At least with Amato, there is a strong chance we will have a much better year next year.”

    I’m not quite sure how you can make that comment. Clearly, the trend is negative with Amato, and it is why everyone is so upset about the product they see on the field. I don’t see how you can claim “strong chance” when there isn’t any evidence that this group of coaches has it together in regards to being able to score points.

    “Next year will be a better year”
    Just like every year since Phil was here, right?

    Man, I wanna know what kool aid you’ve been drinking. Can I get some?

    For everyone else that is upset, unless you are a big time donor, there isn’t anything you can do except not go to the games. As long as this program is making money, Fowler isn’t going to do one thing. Start voting your coach out with your money. As much as I enjoy game day (and I’m an LTR holder) if nothing changes going into next year, I won’t spend the ~500 bones for the two seats I have rights to. It will be only then, when revenue goes down, that Fowler will actually get a clue. This is what happens when money rules folks. Those of you saying Fowler should be upset for not getting results, need to start looking at the black/red column and not the win/loss column.

  2. wgrantham 11/12/2006 at 9:26 PM #

    I agree. the only way things change with chuck is if we hurt fowler’s pocket. thats all he cares about. i heard that fowler has only fired once coach during his time here are state, and that was something like the volleyball coach.

    With Chuck’s ACC record now worse than O’Cains, the precedent has been set. Chuck needs to go. the only question is, if it somehow happens, who do we get? Cowher(extremely doubtful)? Chow(more likely, but still not very)? Schaino(i think he said hes staying at Rutgers, but that could be coach speak during the season)?

  3. GAWolf 11/12/2006 at 9:52 PM #

    Be warned: My father quit donating to the WPC and buying season tickets after 30 years of doing the same as his little part of protesting O’Cain and the lack of substantial goals within our football program. Two years thereafter they finally fired O’Cain. Dad went back to the WPC to get tickets and went from the 45 yard line 15 rows up to the upper deck 20. He refused, became more pissed off at the WPC and NC State sports, and hardly even watches the games on TV anymore. My dad, his dad, his brother, me and my brother all went to NC State.

    While I agree it’s probably a necessary evil if we are hoping to see a change at either post manned by Amato or Fowler now, it’s much easier said than done under the current WPC donor system.

  4. choppack1 11/12/2006 at 10:13 PM #

    Here’s where the irrational and rational conflict.

    The reality of the situation is that 4 of the 5 teams that we’ve lost 2 in a row are pretty good. of course, just playing the percentages, you’d think we’d win at least one of these games.

    However, the bottum line is this – we’ve started out trailing in all 4 of these games. We’ve trailed them all at the half. We’ve trailed them all in most of the 4th quarters.

    During this streak, Daniel Evans has thrown 4 fourth quarter INTs, we’ve had countless dropped passes, and we’ve had a missed 2 point conversion that would have tied a game, and we’ve been tied or had the lead 3 times in the second half and have been unable to stop the opposition. Only one of these of 5 games took an unlikely comeback to win the game.

    2 years ago, we saw something very similar in our losing streak. We were well w/in striking distance against Clemson, FSU and GaTech. Also, 2 years ago, just like this year, our 2 of our conference wins were nail biters.

    I’m really conflicted here – I know how rare it is that a coach and his team can stay w/in striking distance of so many opponents – especially during the thick of a losing streak. I also know how what a bad sign it is if a coach seems to lose most of these games – for example, this year, we’re 2-5 in these games.

    Several things stand out:
    1) The talent is there. We aren’t “out-athleted” by anyone. I was watching the NFL games this afternoon, and for the 4 pm games, we had someone in every game.
    2) Our QB play has to improve – whether it’s Evans, Davis or Stone, no QB has been consistently good the last 3 years. All 3 have had their moments.
    3) Our D has been unable to hold teams when it has had to: In the last 2 years, we’ve had second hald leads or been tied in losses against UNC-Ch, VaTech, Wake, Arkon, UVa, GaTech, and Clemson. (That’s 6 games in our combined 11 losses.)
    4) Our offense has to score more points. We’ve rehashed this time and time again.
    5) Our offense needs to score earlier. During this losing streak, we’ve never scored first. This year, we’ve only scored first against one team – Appalachain State.

    Given the fact that we haven’t been able to play Duke the last 2 years AND that the we’ve only played UVa once during this time AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, the fact that Amato, even after this year, will have been to 5 bowl games in 7 years, amassing an impressive 4-1 record in the process, I’m willing to give Amato another, UNLESS COWHER WANTS TO COME HERE NOW. (Nothing I’ve heard or read indicates that Cowher is coming or wants to come here.)

    However, if he gets next year, we need to see something besides close losses and wins against FSU to give us hope. If he can’t deliver anything different than he’s delivered 5 out of his 7 years here, unfortunately, we have to make a change if we ever want to be above average.

  5. Woof Wolf 11/12/2006 at 10:39 PM #

    24-36; 337 yds; 3 tds; 0 int.

    The Cargers come back from a 28-7 half time deficit, score 42 points in the second half and win 49-41.

    I have to credit my brother with the following quote, “Phillip can even make Marty Schottenheimer look like a great coach.”

  6. Wolfpack4ever 11/12/2006 at 11:06 PM #

    choppack1 Says: “I’m willing to give Amato another, UNLESS COWHER WANTS TO COME HERE NOW. (Nothing I’ve heard or read indicates that Cowher is coming or wants to come here.)

    However, if he gets next year, we need to see something besides close losses and wins against FSU to give us hope. If he can’t deliver anything different than he’s delivered 5 out of his 7 years here, unfortunately, we have to make a change if we ever want to be above average.”

    Choppack1, Well said and is fair treatment. I couldn’t and wouldn’t ask for more. Even Chuck would probably agree. 😉

  7. Wolfpack4ever 11/12/2006 at 11:30 PM #

    PAPacker Says: “SFN et al, does the Wolfpack Club not have significant push back against Fowler/Amato? With all the money that has been ponied up in the last several years?”

    What we all have to remember about the really big donators is that they are the ones with whom Chuck has lunch, etc. IOW many of them are his friends. Another point regarding Bunting’s being fired and demands that Amato be fired, Amato’s situation and Bunting’s situation are not viable comparisons. Their records may be comparable and we may not like it that Amato has lost so many after promising so much, but Bunting’s teams (and alumni) were embarrassed by big loses. Chuck’s teams are characterized by the inability to win close games against teams that were good even if beatable. (The sorry state of affairs with Akron aside.)

  8. Woof Wolf 11/12/2006 at 11:30 PM #

    This may be heresy. I don’t know, but I have to ask. What is the opinion of the fan base and the administration of Jim Donnan. I know that after he played here, he was an assistant at UNC for a few years. I don’t know how many bridges he burned, but he sure does have the resume.

    I started to research his record and found the following on georgiadogs.com:

    “In Jim Donnan’s five years as head coach, he compiled a 40-19 overall record including 25-15 in SEC play. The eight wins or more in four straight seasons set a school record. And for the first time in school history, the Bulldogs won four bowl games in four consecutive seasons (def. Wisconsin in ’98 Outback Bowl; def. Virginia in ’98 Peach Bowl; def. Purdue in ’00 Outback Bowl, and def. Virginia in ’00 Oahu Bowl). Under his direction, Georgia also finished in the nation’s top 20 a school record four consecutive seasons.

    A native of Burlington, N.C., and graduate of N.C. State, Donnan came to Georgia following a record setting run at Marshall. In his six years with the Thundering Herd, Donnan’s teams won 64 games, one national championship; three national runner-up finishes, and earned five consecutive trips to the post-season playoffs. He was named National 1-AA Coach of the Year twice. He had previously been the architect of Oklahoma’s high-powered offenses from 1985-1989 where the Sooners won 49 games in those five years including 27 straight Big Eight contests and the 1985 National Championship.â€?

    Wikipedia says:

    “Donnan was fired by University President Michael F. Adams (against the wishes of athletic director Vince Dooley) in 2000.â€? There was some talk about off the field behavior of some of the players, but they never released any details. Adam’s is considered a loose cannon be most of the fan base, He fired Dooley a couple of years later.

    Donnan is currently an analysis at ESPN. I see him mostly on ESPN News. I’ve often wondered why he never returned to coaching. Like I said at the beginning, I don’t know how the Wolfpack family feels about him. But unless he messed with someone’s sister or defamed somebody’s mother, he looks pretty damn good on paper.

  9. NCSUDude17 11/12/2006 at 11:31 PM #

    Navy hasn’t punted in 2 games, PLEASE HIRE PAUL JOHNSON WHILE YOU STILL CAN, LEE!

  10. Wolfpack4ever 11/12/2006 at 11:43 PM #

    vtpackfan Says: “June Jones and Jerry Glanville are out in Hawaii, but I think its some witness protection thing.”

    vtpackfan, Have you thought about doing stand-up comedy? That is funny!

    Taking the question seriously, let’s see? Would I rather live and coach in Hawaii or Raleigh, ugh, is that North or South Carolina?

  11. vtpackfan 11/13/2006 at 12:35 AM #

    Negotiations with Glanville were very tough considering they hadn’t ever made a black pront Hawaiin shirt, but who cares. They are AARP ex NFL coachs on some club med trip. Cower, Johnson or whoever it makes little sense. They fire Herb debate was never going to end or even begin for that matter. But he left so it created the illusion that things can operate at State like they do at other major programs. I think Chuck is set in riding this out. I know hes no Joe Paterno by any stretch of the imagination but a whole lot of us better start getting keen to the idea that Chuck needs to keep doing certain things the way we sees fit, and drastically change other aspects. if it means hiring a Div. II or high school coaching staff and keeping them around then so be it. The revolving door of asst. coachs doesn’t hack it, and in the rare exceptions like USC and Florida it is only because they are so perfectly built to usher in one excellent coach after another leaves. He’s not going anywhere so we should plan on a future of CTC football.

  12. vtpackfan 11/13/2006 at 1:31 AM #

    actually I’m lying through my teeth and would laugh and do a short but ridiculous jig if we lured Cower! Go PACK!

  13. class of 74 11/13/2006 at 6:53 AM #

    I’m just waiting for CTC’s excuse for this season. It’ll be something like: “you know there was only a blocked field goal seperating Duke and a team in Jacksonville (Wake Forest). That’s how close this league is, it really, really is that close. And we make 5 plays this season, just 5 plays and we are in Jacksonville. We are so close, so close.”

    And after the season has ended LF will buy that line of crap and extend our loser another a year on his contract. Meanwhile we just fall another year and a few hundred thousand dollars behind straightening this mess out. If this is the scenario that plays out I’m all but convinced NCSU will NEVER have a quality football program. There is too much satisfaction with mediocrity in our adminstration for greatness to ever happen.

  14. wolfonthehill 11/13/2006 at 10:09 AM #

    beowolf wins the prize for asking why anyone’s shocked – or even mildly surprised. After the UMd and Uva losses, the next three were completely predictable… I’m no expert, but I repeatedly called 3-7 at that point. I’d honestly be surprised if we win again – this team has the mentality that they expect to lose, and they then do whatever it takes to make sure it happens.

  15. SixPack 11/13/2006 at 10:52 AM #

    3-7 is a lock !

    LF will give CTC a 2-3 year extension !

    Case closed !

    PS….I’m afraid that all the chatter about Cowher is just that….chatter !
    Buying a house in Raleigh is what it is…to RETIRE IN !!!

  16. Cardiff Giant 11/13/2006 at 1:50 PM #

    If I was a gambling man, which thankfully I am not, my money is on the Heels this weekend.

  17. RAWFS 11/13/2006 at 2:02 PM #

    “PS….I’m afraid that all the chatter about Cowher is just that….chatter !
    Buying a house in Raleigh is what it is…to RETIRE IN !!!”

    Has Bill Cowher ever said that he wanted to coach at State?

    Has he ever said that he is coming to Raleigh to do anything besides retire?

    Really, the whole Bill Cowher fantasy has even less substance than the Rick Barnes thing.

    State’s fans always seem to want a coaching Coaching Moses to part the water and lead our people to their rightful homeland. It hasn’t happened yet…

  18. SixPack 11/13/2006 at 2:13 PM #

    My whole point RAWFS !!!!

    Thanks !

  19. Cardiff Giant 11/13/2006 at 3:02 PM #

    2-8 or 3-9 looking like locks at this point. No way we win both those games and I will be surprised if we win one of them.

  20. Mike 11/13/2006 at 3:42 PM #

    RAWFS and SixPack, agree completely. I read people on here writing their posts get deleted. The only post I have ever known of mine to be deleted is when I say there is no way Cowher is coming here. I like Cowher, respect Cowher, and think he has done a great job in Pittsburgh. I still dont think there is any reason he would come here, not becasue we are a bad place to coach, but simply because he has no reason to take a huge pay cut OR come out of retirement.

  21. GAWolf 11/13/2006 at 4:02 PM #

    WOOFWolf:

    I had good friends who played at UGA during the Donnan years and he didn’t do much there. He was ultimately run out of town. Hiring him here would be a big mistake. Many Pack fans don’t like Donnan because of some statements he made about NC State when he was at Marshall. I, for one, could care less about that. My concern would be that he was not very successful at UGA and that’s a program consistently at a level that we’re trying to obtain.

    As other people have mentioned, there are several much more attractive coaches out there. Paul Johnson is one as I, too, believe the Cowher to State talk is nothing short of a pipe dream. With that said, I would love for it to happen but rather doubt a) the ability of our administration to get it done and b) Cowher’s desire to come here to coach.

  22. legacyman 11/13/2006 at 4:26 PM #

    The problem with Donnan goes way back before UGA. He was a recruiter when he worked at unc-ch and did some unseemly things against his alma mater. Many in the know won’t forget those things.

    Now, LF has no clue about our history as he has committed us to playing USC again which many never wanted to do after the way USC fans acted and treated us. Also, LF has set us up to play ECU and many oldtimers do not want that. But what do the old time supporters know…it’s all about the almighty dollar now.

  23. Woof Wolf 11/13/2006 at 4:48 PM #

    Thanks for the info. I thought there must be something out there.

  24. class of 74 11/13/2006 at 5:03 PM #

    IMHO Paul Johnson would be a major upgrade. He has the respect of nearly everyone in the business, all he has lacked was the stage to showcase his ability. If there is any question with him it would be regarding the recruiting of blue chip athletes. He’s never had the program behind him to go after those type of athletes. I think with Johnson as coach, we would be competing for a spot in Jacksonville this year. He is miles better than what we now have as a game coach.

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