Logan Outlines Recruiting Risk of Johnson Hire

As many in the NC State community seem to work to convince themselves that hiring Navy’s Paul Johnson would be a great hire, 850TheBuzz’s Steve Logan did a fantastic job of highlighting some challenges that Paul Johnson is going to face on the all-important recruiting trail.

Remember, whomever NC State hires will be recruiting against Carolina’s Butch Davis who has NFL Head Coaching experience and has been extremely successful at a high profile Division One program.

On his radio show today, Logan stressed the importance of selling the NFL to the type of high school talent that comprise the programs in major conferences like the ACC. As he does with most topics on his show, Logan offered his perspective as if “he were the coach” in a situation. He stated that if he were at Carolina recruiting against Paul Johnson that he would stress the importance of the NFL to any player that he recruited on the offensive side of the ball.

Offensive Line – I will teach you how to pass block so you can make the NFL.

Quarterback – I will teach you how to throw.

Running Back – I will teach you how pass block for the NFL.

Wide Receiver – I will teach you to how to run block like the NFL, how to catch like the NFL, etc.

The message is clear – Paul Johnson has had legitimate success that deserves acknowledgement and recognition, but his system may create problems while trying to recruit the kind of talent that typically resides in conferences like the ACC.

We don’t have an educated opinion on this topic yet, but would love to hear your thoughts.

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104 Responses to Logan Outlines Recruiting Risk of Johnson Hire

  1. CarnifeX 11/29/2006 at 5:00 PM #

    what about the combo deal out of LSU? I think that’ll be a nice way to go, OC has HC and his DC?

  2. beowolf 11/29/2006 at 5:02 PM #

    Davis was a winner at the college level.

    I’m more interested in Jimbo or Chow than Johnson, and maybe I shouldn’t be. There is something for demonstrated leadership as the executive — it’s what Amato, Roof, Bunting, Torbush, and O’Cain lacked when they were hired.

  3. Buck 11/29/2006 at 5:10 PM #

    Dan, too many unknowns with PJ??!! What the heck is that? He’s got fewer unknowns than just about anyone on the list, short of Cowher. You know you are getting…someone who has succeeded at every level he has coached, including Div I. The guy can flat out coach and run a program. He isn’t going to accept all that penalty crap we’ve seen lately either…because he can coach, not just talk.

  4. wolpfack 11/29/2006 at 5:21 PM #

    There are just too many questions with all the names being mentioned…
    PJ – will his system work in the ACC, will he adapt it, will he even use it?
    Jimbo – will he succeed as a HC, will he jump ship after a couple years?
    Chow – is he willing to be a vocal HC and take charge or does he want to just sit back and let someone else be in control?
    …the bottom line is, we wont know any of the answers until next year rolls around…for me though, I hope we’ve got a guy by the name of Jimbo running this ship, yeah, he lacks the HC experience that so many want, but who would argue with numbers like this: 33.1 ppg, 152.9 rush yd/g, 245 pass yd/g (1st, 2nd, and 3rd respectively in the SEC)

  5. choppack1 11/29/2006 at 5:21 PM #

    I really understand being skeptical about Johnson, but not for the “question marks” about what he’s going to do. If his history as a HC is any indication, we’d run it and run it well, and win the majority of our ball games. We might not win too many year 1, but if his history AS A HEAD COACH is any indication, he’ll be winning year 3 – and he’ll dominate his rivals.

    OTOH, our other likely suspects all have just as big question marks…
    1) Jimbo Fisher – Never been a HC, will he stay if successful.
    2) Norm Chow – West coast guy, ASU’s #1 target – reportedly. Never been a head coach, reportedly doesn’t like to recruit.
    3) Gary Barnett – Fired from his last job, left the cupboard completely bare at CU.
    4) Mike Sherman – Can he motivate young men and win as a college coach, reportedly a poor evaluator of talent – will he be able to build somthing substainable?
    5) Petrino or Telford or Rodriguez or O’Brien – IMHO, we had a better shot at BC.

    I’m sorry, but NC State isn’t the kind of program to attract the surest things. Butch Davis was about as close to a sure thing as you’re going to get. There is no guarantee that our guy can compete w/ him recruiting. None of the coaches above have ever had to recruit for a school like NC State – which isn’t top dog in its respective state.

    IMHO, I stand by my statement that it’s the height of stupidity to eliminate PJ, Jimbo or Chow w/out interviewing these guys and seeing how they answer the questions of some very understandable doubts. There is no doubt that all 3 of these guys have tremendous upsides, but all 3 certainly have very legimate question marks…

  6. tvp 11/29/2006 at 5:23 PM #

    I’m amazed at some of the opposition to PJ (not the SFN post, but some of the comments here and elsewhere). It generally rests on the idea that the Navy offense can’t win here or can’t attract recruits.

    This “analysis” ignores these facts:

    -Offenses incorporating similar principles are currently winning big at Wake, WVU, Florida, and Texas A&M, to name a few.

    -There is no guarantee PJ would run the same offense here. In fact, he’s said more than once that he runs it to mask his personnel weakness and he would throw it more if he could.

    -Even if you assume it would be less attractive to recruits with NFL aspirations, that is only one factor in recruiting. Personal relationships are important. Facilities are important. Winning is important.

    -PJ, unlike any other candidate mentioned, has won and won big as a head coach. He’d likely bring along a staff that has been with him for years. This equals WELL-COACHED, DISCIPLINED, WINNING football from day one.

    I still have yet to see a good reason why we should hire Fisher, for example, over PJ. I’m just hoping PJ is actually interested.

    As for Logan, maybe he is speaking a bit out of self-interest? Just a thought.

  7. rky 11/29/2006 at 5:24 PM #

    as a lifeling Pack fan that moved from NC to CO, if anyone suggests Gary Barnett again, I’m hunting them down like the low down dog they are.

  8. RedTerror29 11/29/2006 at 5:26 PM #

    It shouldn’t be a question whether or not Paul Johnson will revise his offensive scheme. He’s been HC at Navy and Georgia Southern, and OC at Hawaii. They ran a different version of the offense each time. He threw the ball plenty at Georgia Southern. I saw that offense first hand, and it was NASTY, scoring like 50 points a game. How would that have fared against an ACC team? His team from six/seven years ago would have beat us, UNC, and Duke (at least) this year. If he lined up against Amato after a year of coaching the same guys he would beat him 100 out of 100 times. I don’t care if Pat White plays QB in the NFL, WR, or doesn’t play at all. At the college game he’s better than every QB on our roster combined. It’s pure fallacy that you can’t win without a “pro” offense, touting you’ll send kids to the NFL at every turn. It may be the best route at FSU/Miami/USC, but I doubt it is here. Yes, there are a lot of questions about Johnson. But there are plenty of questions about ANY candidate (even Cowher). He may not be the best candidate available (I have him very close to Jimbo Fisher). But to act like he isn’t deserving of the job is just plain wrong.

  9. WestCoast 11/29/2006 at 5:28 PM #

    Did anyone here what ESPN Radio had to say about 5:00pm today regarding Cowher? It would have been after the Sportscenter update. I was listening locally then the local Sports Show came on and I didn’t get the update?

  10. jbwbubba 11/29/2006 at 5:31 PM #

    its ‘jimbo time’, everybody ‘jimbo’

  11. RedTerror29 11/29/2006 at 5:37 PM #

    Ok it looks like I should’ve hit F5 – some people did a better job of defending PJ than I did. So, before I get all Redfred>Bob Knight on PJ, I’ll say something for another candidate – Jimbo Fisher. Unlike college b-ball, the top assistants from top programs often make great head coaches. E.g. Bob Stoops, Mike Stoops, Mark Richt, Dave Cutcliffe (he did a fine job at Ole Miss no matter what anyone says and he wouldn’t be a bad choice here), etc. I think Amato was more the exception than the rule. The hard part is evaluating – can the guy make the lead to top dog?

    Ultimately our hire’s success is going to depend on the ability of the decision makers to evaluate coaching talent – not something I have a lot of faith in.

  12. Gene 11/29/2006 at 5:41 PM #

    Bill Walsh tried installing the West Coast Offense at Stanford and failed miserably at it. He was 17-17-1 in 3 seasons, with one winning season. Trestman tried adapting the WCO to college and failed miserably at it.

    Maybe pro-style systems don’t translate well to college.

    What worries me more about Davis, than his NFL experience, is his proven ability to coach in college. Spurrier was an awesome college coach, before he got the itch to try and prove himself in the NFL. Spurrier’s NFL experience doesn’t make him a better college coach. He was already a good college coach to begin with. I think the same will be the case with Davis.

    If pro-experience was a natural advantage in college, than Bunting and Groh, in Virginia, would have done or be doing better. I’d even throw Leonard Hamilton into this list, since it is basketball season.

    Someone pointed this out to me, but of all the NCSU players who got drafted last year, the only four-star recruit, coming out of high school, was Mario Williams. Everyone else was three-stars or less.

    High school rankings of football players are much less predictive of success in college, than basketball rankings.

    Wisconsin has been able to compete with Michigan and Ohio State, for the past 10 years – they’ve won multiple Big Ten titles – by using an old fashioned smash-mouth offense and playing good defense. Beamer’s done the same thing at Va. Tech and played for a National Championship.

    If Johnson’s a good coach, like Alvarez was at Wisconsin and Beamer is at Va. Tech, this will more than make-up for the non-NFL nature of our offense.

  13. skywalkerdt 11/29/2006 at 5:41 PM #

    Don’t lump texas a&m in with well coached. the aggies have won this year DESPITE the coaching staff. i’m currently working at a&m and have seen few people that retarded where it regards playcalling

  14. jbwbubba 11/29/2006 at 5:42 PM #

    If we end up hiring PJ and he is the number 2 pick after Cowher, why did we waste money hiring chuck Neias to consult? Heck, Monday morning many packfans had PJ a top candidate after Cowher. PJ isn’t exactly a “homerun” that you need to hire outside help to get.

  15. Slader4881 11/29/2006 at 5:45 PM #

    I think a winner is a winner and it is tough to argue with PJ too much. The offense will have to be modified , no one will argue that. In my opinion PJ will give us the most in terms of “long term program building”. The others:

    Jimbo- I like what I’ve seen, but two thinks really bother me;

    1) LSU has never been an offensive powerhouse even though they have amazing talent.
    2) The ties to the Bowden’s are too strong – I can see him going to FSU to be OC and a possible Head Coach job.

    Chow – amazing coach but doesn’t seem to like the east coast. I really don’t think he would be a bad choice other than his age.

    Barnett – please please please stay away – very shaky track record at CU

    Cutcliffe – No Way, good OC bad Head Coach. Was never able to raise Ole Miss, NCSU is too similar a situation.

    Donnan – too good ole boy. Our players may find it tough to relate to him.

  16. RedTerror29 11/29/2006 at 5:45 PM #

    $35,000 to avoid the embarrassment of the basketball search sounds like a good investment to me.

  17. rky 11/29/2006 at 5:45 PM #

    jbwbubba – you’re just trying to get the pot stirred up by asking that question, right? If you do need an answer, I’ve got two words: ‘Lee Fowler’

  18. GAWolf 11/29/2006 at 5:52 PM #

    Thanks for the heads up, Joe!

  19. choppack1 11/29/2006 at 5:53 PM #

    jbwbubba – We hired him so Jim Donnan wouldn’t be on ESPN tomorrow night going, “I’m turning down the NC State job.”

  20. Buddygreen 11/29/2006 at 5:53 PM #

    Logan just spitting out radio fodder in my opinion. Pretty much if I were recruiting against against Davis it would be pretty simple if he could teach you how to be successful in NFL, he wouldn’t have been fired. His inabilty to access talent given his controlling ego and know it all attitude cost him his job. He failed. I would ask Logan wonder what Bowden at FSU, Tressel at OSU, Paterno at Penn State, Grobe at Wake Forest, and Brown at Texas tell their recruits since they have no NFL head coaching experience. I am not impressed with Logan, or what he thinks since he’s been an NFL assistant and now in NFL Europe, does he think can tell a recruit that? Sounds like ego talking on his part. If he could have taught those things in Greenville he wouldn’t have run the program down before he left. He walked into a program thanks to Bill Lewis (hired away by Ga. Tech) in way better shape than he left it. I bet the person most worried about recruiting is Davis, he’s used to recruiting Dade County. One of three most fertile places for recruits in the country. Johnson will not be worried about recruiting he’s been doing it for years and recruitng for a service academy is a tough thing to do and then to win with it is impressive. I don’t think it will be a problem. I think Johnson will recruit more like a Frank Beamer good players they can develop ove the long haul. Our former coach was so good at pointing out the importance of fifth year seniors at other schools like Va. Tech but didn’t utilze it enough himself.

  21. skywalkerdt 11/29/2006 at 5:54 PM #

    its all about having someone who is going to do there homework, not just try and shock the world with a “big name hire” like fowler did in the spring. but go through and look for the leadership/charasmatic qualities the job requires. at this level they all know the game they’re coaching but who can lead a bunch of 20 y/o’s and handle the media halfway decently?

  22. Gene 11/29/2006 at 5:55 PM #

    I read somewhere Reggie Herrings name being tossed around as a possiblity. Is this a serious option?

    SFN: You “read” somewhere other than a bathroom stall? This is ludicrous.

  23. graywolf 11/29/2006 at 5:57 PM #

    We have heard the same kinds of arguments regarding Jim Grobe at Wake. Well, it looks like they could win a conference title come Saturday.
    You never know how someone will work out but you try for the best and I think head coaching experience is a MUST and PJ has won everywhere he has ever been.

  24. dabigdog 11/29/2006 at 6:02 PM #

    Paul Johnson is a great coach who could help bring a very physical brand of football to N.C. State.

    He is a native of Newland. His specialty is the triple option offense. It’s not a pro-style offense, but there are a lot of aspects of the offense that could translate to NFL success for a player. I mean, a good running back is a good running back. Good linemen are good linemen. Pass blocking ain’t rocket science folks! State may not get those elite quarterbacks like phillip rivers anymore, but hey, what did state do when they had Rivers?

    Not nearly enough, if you ask me.

    It wouldn’t be a bad thing if N.C. State became like Nebraska in the 90s, would it?

    But the negative to a specialty offense like the hambone could be that the next coach has to spend nearly two years having to undo the whole dadgum thing.

    A committment to johnson is going to have to be just that — a committment.

    Look at the whole situation at Georgia Southern. Johnson left the program to another option coach, Mike Sewak, who was forced out by the boosters at Georgia Southern and now, the new coach, Brian VanGorder is playing hell trying to adapt another system. But one thing to keep in mind, Johnson and Sewak were both winners, we’re talking at least 8-9 wins a season.

    just my two cents.

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