Blood In The Water- Tudor & Dascenzo Fire Away (Updated 10:30am)

“Other than his love for his school, lively personality and work with the defensive unit, there’s not a compelling argument to be made for giving Amato more time.” (Caulton Tudor)

Dascenzo: Amato’s stock isn’t on the rise

Ah Chuck, this is late November and you’re standing across the field from that light blue color, the one that your Wolfpack Nation doesn’t like very much and dearly loves to have the upper hand against. Ah Chuck, this is THE game on your schedule every year, and you’re going to be remembered for the outcome of every time you play these guys.

Somewhere along the way to Chapel Hill, the Wolfpack’s offense got lost and never could be found. Marc Trestman is N.C. State’s offensive coordinator, and he likely has had better days than this one. Ah Marc, you’re in this too, buddy.

N.C. State’s facilities are excellent, football is a popular sport in Raleigh and basketball is rebuilding with new coach Sidney Lowe.

N.C. State looked undisciplined, unsure of everything and anything on offense. And its defense, especially early on, was stuffed by UNC’s running game.

You couldn’t find a positive within Amato’s team on this day. It lacked imagination on offense but, more importantly, it lacked execution. And those nine penalties will not set well with Amato or his coaches.

Tudor: Loss puts Amato in hot water

The end result of the Tar Heels’ 23-9 victory could well be that Amato soon joins Bunting in the unemployed ranks.

That Amato is in trouble — big, loud trouble — isn’t the question. He is.

The question is: Can he survive and return to coach his alma mater for an eighth season in 2007?

Amato, today, is where Bunting was after UNC dropped successive games to South Florida (37-20) and Virginia (23-0) in mid-October. He was fired three days later.

It’s right that Amato should be in this trouble, too. In the three seasons since quarterback Philip Rivers graduated, the Wolfpack’s offense has fallen into such a state of disrepair and misdirection that it’s illogical to assume that a great deal is going to change between now and September.

The more you read of Tudor’s article the more home runs that he hits and nails that he hammers. The following point couldn’t be more common-sensical and more on the money!!! In fact, the quote is one of the key management dictums that (during the Sendek years) proved Lee Fowler’s inadequacy to be an Athletics Director at a major University.

There’s a chance Amato will get another year. But if so, it would be a plunge into purgatory marked by a weekly referendum on his fate. N.C. State would have 12 games, each a certifiable crisis until the coach either won or lost enough games to make the eventual decision a moot issue.

In this entry after yesterday’s game, BJD shared the following information:

SFN has been been told by 2 independent sources that Chuck Amato would be fired if Chuck loses out (and maybe if he just lost today). Oblinger is ready to make the move and the big donors are squarely (not sure if unanimously) behind him. I’m putting this out there because the pressure needs to be public and intense from this moment forward.

^The idea that State needed to lose two in a row before making a change bothered us to the core because we don’t understand the difference between losing out and simply losing one of these two. Big F*ing deal?

It feels EXACTLY like TYPICAL NC State cowardly management – let’s keep changing the standard and give (insert employee here) another chance by basing our decision on a completely subjective and irrelevant standard while ignoring years of history.

The quote that follows from Caulton Tudor are another way of sharing EXACTLY the way we feel —

The East Carolina game is 100% inconsequential at this point. Either you are pleased with the direction of the football program or you are not. What does a game against ECU have to do with that?

Another thanks to Tudor for getting this right:

Even a one-sided win over East Carolina wouldn’t be enough to change the dilemma ahead. The Pack’s ACC season is over at 2-6, good for last place in the Atlantic Division. The overall record can be no better than 4-8, and the offense has failed to score more than 24 points in a game this season.

If anything, East Carolina University serves as a model for NC State’s next steps; NOT a determining factor in our future.

Two years ago this week, NC State defeated a broken ECU program 52-14 to send the Pirates to a 2-9 season on the back of a 1-11 season. Terry Holland fired a coach that was only given two years (and showed improvement in year two!) and hired Skip Holtz. Two years later, ECU is competing for a conference championships and will be FAVORED in a game in Carter-Finley.

Note that the coach didn’t need five years of failure to get his recruits in and build the program. Note that the coach didn’t need $100MM of new facilities before his clock started. Note that the coach came into a program that had been failing miserably and not recruiting well and has immediately made an impact.

Perhaps someone in NC State’s athletics administration would like to start noting the way others run their departments.

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71 Responses to Blood In The Water- Tudor & Dascenzo Fire Away (Updated 10:30am)

  1. Titus 11/19/2006 at 7:11 PM #

    Is that Chow story legit?

  2. packgrad2000 11/19/2006 at 7:12 PM #

    redfred:
    Let me interpret my statements since you seem to be misconstruing what I am saying.
    Sendek was a success compared to Amato means this: as bad as Sendek was, Amato is WORSE.
    Chuck’s constant bashing from the media have not gotten him fired yet because CF has still been sold out and donations to the WPC are (until now) still up.
    “But then, Chuck’s constant bashing from the media and all of the criticism and has not resulted in one single thing.”
    Are you seriously suggesting LF should have fired Amato before this season? There has not been a unified voice for him to go until this season (and it has grown with each loss).
    LF and Oblinger probably don’t have the balls to do anything. I will agree with you there. But Amato has the deck stacked against him way more than Sendek ever did, and the criticism among State fans will grow and be far more unified in the coming weeks if nothing is done.
    It’s probably going to take the WPC and the big donors to get him out. I have heard that Fowler has said that as long as CF is sold out, Amato’s job is more or less secure.
    It’s going to take us telling the WPC we’re not giving until he’s gone; it’s going to take lots of public criticism; it’s going to take the big donors to be convinced (if they’re not already) that a change needs to be made; and sadly, it’s probably going to take a loss to ECU.

  3. BorntoHowl 11/19/2006 at 7:24 PM #

    As long as we have Fowler, good things at State will be sucked into a black hole. Who would ever want to work for that pompous ass. We have a major strike against us in a new coaching search.

    It’s been past time for Chuck to go. He has definitely contributed to a lot of positives at State. Staying next year will badly reflect on him and much of the positives that Philip Rivers gave him and the facilities improvement.

    Going 1-11 next year is better than a 90% probability if Trestman is still around. Even if Trestman goes, installing a new offense would only be good for a maximum of 3 wins with Chuck in charge. The program is in such disarray, only a new coach that brings hope could change things.

    There’s three things in my book that stand out above all the others in the complicated mix of things that make a top 20 program. Those in order of importance are talent, emotion / passion, and coaching. After yesterday, we have a negative amount of the emotion / passion part. The play calling and coaching was as predictable as death and taxes and high school quality. The only thing we seem to have a fair amount of is talent. One out of three and $0.50 will get you a cup of coffee.

    IMO Chuck will never take State to another bowl game or win more than 3 victories in any year in the ACC. He just doesn’t have it. The chances of Chuck finding a Philip Rivers to save him is nil. He’s on borrowed time and support outside the administration is gone. Could we contract MAF to do Fowler’s job just for Monday?

  4. cowdog 11/19/2006 at 7:29 PM #

    Hmmm….I came in late with a buzz on and seems that the majority of posters have been at it for awhile too. Everyone has abanded the eloquent in favor of the salient. There is not a single missive in this thread that DOES NOT make sense…ring true…or point to the real problem that exists here in Pack land.

    Anybody spent time on Hillsborough Street over the last few years? What are your impressions when you drive East on the main drag and look to your left. Look like a college town to you?

    Did to me once.

  5. Gene 11/19/2006 at 7:42 PM #

    Titus, I’ve read about Chow considering NCSU as an option, but I can’t find the link to the article, where it is reported.

    I think it is legit, from what I’ve read.

  6. StateFans 11/19/2006 at 8:41 PM #

    Packgrad2000,

    I know that you are trying…but you need to give the attempts at explaining how Herb was more successful than Chuck a rest.

    He wasn’t. He coached here for TEN YEARS, not the only five that you seem to remember.

    Additionally, Herb’s performance relative to the history of the BBall program fell grossly short.

    Amato’s 7-year performance relative to the history of the football program does not fall grossly short.

    The question is not comparing the success of the entire tenure. The issue for football is that all hope NOW seems to be lost and the program is in a horrible trend and downward spiral. Fans have little reason to have any more hope because of the recent performance and spiral.

    This is very different from futilely trying to compare tenures.

  7. Lunatic Inter-netter 11/19/2006 at 9:12 PM #

    Cowdog, your are on the money. With regards to Hillsborough Street, its decrepit and transient state is so symbolic of the conditions at our university.

  8. 82grad 11/19/2006 at 9:16 PM #

    ha ha, now you guys are arguing about whether herb or chuck sux more!

  9. redfred2 11/19/2006 at 9:42 PM #

    Thanks Statefans, I’m tired of butting heads with people who where probably 8 or 9 years old back when Herb started, and now think they know everything about what the NC State basketball program is, and should be.

  10. Wolfpack4ever 11/19/2006 at 11:39 PM #

    class of 74 Says: “^Too many other good options to wait for a pro coach with no college experience! ie. Paul Johnson.”

    Is this the Paul Johnson of steroids fame? Fat chance of him getting the nod at NCSU with that cloud over his head.

  11. Wolfpack4ever 11/20/2006 at 12:20 AM #

    Agreed, Coach Amato has had his chance and failed.

    However, the dooms dayers who think our football program is now years behind UNX because of Chuck — Or Tressman or Fowler or Oblinger or the ball boys — need to relax up.

    There are coaches out there who can take theirs and beat yours OR take yours and beat theirs. Finding those and those who are available or will come here may be another story. Look at the athletes on this team. Our D was a very pleasant surprise to me. With a decent offense giving them some rest, they could have been statistically even better. There is talent at the skill positions. The time or two that we lined up in the ‘I’ with Baker at FB and Brown at TB must have been frightening to DCs. Imagine Baker off T or G and Brown countering or taking a pitch. Who to key on?

    Just don’t count on luring Urban Meyer or = to come here to coach.

  12. Dan 11/20/2006 at 12:33 AM #

    I totally understand people being upset with Chuck. Last week’s game was sickening.

    However, anyone who thinks Lee Fowler is capable of hiring a coach is not qualified to tie his own shoes. I’m not sure he is even qualified to own shoes.

    What is worse? Giving Trestman a chance to show what he can do with his guys (Burke or Beck + the new WR’s) or allowing our walking calamnity of an AD make us all look like jack asses once again.

    Even for argument’s sake, I’ll concede any point on Amato. Its stupid to even attempt to defend it. I wont try. A firing would be justified. I just cannot believe that anyone who has a clue could possibly believe that Fowler wont destroy this program if this happens before he is removed.

    In my mind, we could have lost every game by 50+, but we cant fire a coach with Fowler at AD. We cant.

    I just wish the admin would have listened after the basketball coaching search and fired that moron. This was the situation I feared the most. Its like having Moe as the coach, but Curly as the guy in waiting.

    I know how ugly it sounds. But I’d rather see Burke, Brown, Baker, G James, Bowens, Ant Hill, and Blackman give it try next year than let Jed come anywhere close to making a hire.

  13. class of 74 11/20/2006 at 10:13 AM #

    4EVER:
    Do you know something that none of the rest of us know about Paul Johnson other than what is in the paper? Let’s not convict him before the facts are known. It would seem you defend Amato when he is undefendable and you convict Johnson with little or no proof. Very odd.

  14. redfred2 11/20/2006 at 12:33 PM #

    Dan

    You are right, hiring another new coach is just a temporary patch. It has been a no win situation all the way around in Raleigh for years.

    Someone needs to hire a performance evalution firm, and involve every administrator there, before that laughing stock leaves nothing to even worry about.

  15. wolfpackbball 11/20/2006 at 1:14 PM #

    PackGrad

    I’m with you on your evaluations of the two losers in this aspect. Comparing the tenures. Sendek finished higher than he started, meaning, there was a relative rise in success from his beginnings. RELATIVE is the key word there. CTC is on a steady downhill slope since achieving SOME success on the field, mostly on the back of PR.

  16. redfred2 11/20/2006 at 2:13 PM #

    Now the HSSS’ers are hell bent on comparisons to a loosing football program in order make a point about how good HERB was.

    S T O P !!!

  17. wolfpackbball 11/20/2006 at 2:59 PM #

    Redfred

    “in order to make a point about how good HERB was”

    I certainly did not try to make a point about how GOOD? Herb was. Not sure if your comment was aimed totally at me, but I certainly did not make a point about how good Herb was. With Herb we were stuck at a level of mediocrity, no matter what the W-L results were. With Chuck, we are on a downward slope. CTC can’t seem to find a plateau of mediocrity on which to sit. Either way, neither coach is what this university needed or needs. We have one problem fixed, now on to the second.

  18. justaguy 11/20/2006 at 3:33 PM #

    ^ wolfpackball speaks for me too. I’m not trying to elevate Herb.

  19. redfred2 11/20/2006 at 5:57 PM #

    Sorry guys, but Herb WALKED, he WAS NOT FIRED, at any time. There wasn’t even any sign given that they were ever considering firing Herb. Next thing we hear, Herb is heading to ASU on his own.

    What I’m having trouble figuring out is what a never fired Herb Sendek’s record has to do with administration actually stepping up and FIRING Chuck Amato.

    It doesn’t matter whose record is what, between Herb and Chuck, because Herb was NEVER FIRED, and I am sure he would still be here if it were to up the NCSU administration.

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