Barnett: Four Seasons Ago

Chuck Amato General NCS Football Quotes of Note50

“But none of that explains how State came so close to a great season and finished so far from one. The fault ultimately must lie not on the field but off it. This was a season that slipped away on the sidelines.”

Ned Barnett of the News & Observer
Late November, 2003

Some interesting comments that followed this quote on a PackPride.com thread in 2003 that (unfortunately) sound all too familiar. We won’t brag about ourselves too much here, but we are proud of how insightful two of our own were at the time:

A very objective, detailed analysis of what truly was a “C” caliber job by the coaching staff this year. None of this is something that can’t be fixed, or anything that sggests Amato won’t get it done or should be fired. Anyone who won’t admit mental toughness was a problem here – and that is a direct indictment of coaching. Watch Maryland play ever since Fridge got there, and you’ll see a mentally tough team that derives such from the coach. Objective, rational discussion and analysis of a coach is healthy. I wish we could all be that way, with all coaches in all sports.

The next 2 years will be very telling.

^said BJD

I just don’t get the theory that some fans like to purport that “coaches didn’t fumble…or coaches didn’t miss the field goal….etc”

It is coaching (and play calling) that impacts everything on the field. Heck…why are we having to even kick the field goals when we have the amazing offense that we have? Why don’t we have bigger leads such that we aren’t in situations where the fumbles kill us?

The thing about football is that everything is inter-related. It is truly like a chess match. You make one bad play call, then you are forced to do something else on future plays. If you have certain levels of success on previous plays, then you are in a different position on later plays. So, one could make and effective case that it doesn’t matter which player made which mistake on the field on a certain play when the very reason that we are in that particular position can be traced to previous strategies, play calls, etc.

^said Jeff

About StateFans

'StateFansNation' is the shared profile used by any/all of the dozen or so authors that contribute to the blog. You may not always agree with us, but you will have little doubt about where we stand on most issues. Please follow us on Twitter and FaceBook

Chuck Amato General NCS Football Quotes of Note

50 Responses to Barnett: Four Seasons Ago

  1. class of 74 11/13/2006 at 7:28 AM #

    I haven’t taken the time to do the research but has anyone in the ACC, not named Duke, had so few games over seven years where they never blew anyone out? Other than the overmatched 1-AA opponents, CTC’s squads never deliver a blowout. After seven seasons you would think there would have been quite a few but the Kansas Tangerine and to a lesser extent Notre Dame Gator Bowls are the only two that readily come to mind.

    The reason I ask is it seems to me Chuck is a product of his environment. At FSU they won by having two and three times as much talent as most of their opponents for those many years. Look at FSU’s recent slide. Many say it’s Richt’s departure that’s the reason but Richt wasn’t the only OC during those glory years. I think that talent squeeze has been the main culprit. With regard to Chuck, he can’t replicate that talent overload here he was accustom to in Tallahassee and therefore he’s in over his head.
    When you have to coach your way to victory he is as lost as a cork bobbing in the middle of the Atlantic.

  2. tlk1969 11/13/2006 at 8:59 AM #

    please pardon my ignorance, but what or who is “CTC”? I see it all the time but cannot for the life of my figure it out. . ..

  3. Great Dane Guy 11/13/2006 at 9:21 AM #

    Chuck the Chest

  4. tlk1969 11/13/2006 at 9:35 AM #

    thanks. . . that’s pretty funny.

  5. Woof Wolf 11/13/2006 at 9:36 AM #

    class of 74: Glad you asked. I did the following last night.

    Chuck has coached 84 games at NC State. 44 (52.4%) of those games were decided by 8 or fewer points. His overall winning percentage is 58.3. His winning percentage in the close games is 43.2.

    I compared these numbers to seven of the coaches who have been in the ACC as long or almost as long as Chuck. I left out Roof and the three teams who just joined the league.

    Chuck’s overall winning percentage of 58.3 ranks 5th with Groh, Grobe, and Bunting below him.

    The 52.4% of close games is the highest with Grobe following at 51.5 and everyone one else between 38.6 and 33.8. Winning only 43.2% of close games also ranks dead last. The others range from Grobe at 48.6% to the Fridge at 66.7%.

    What does all that mean? I’m not sure but here’s some of what I think. It seems that the mean of my small sample indicates that 1/3 to 2/5’s of your games are going to be close. Why do NCSU’s and WFU’s percentages differ so far from the norm? (The rest of this is pure speculation).

    I think coaching, execution and desire keeps Wake in some games and wins some games that could have been lost by larger margins,

    Conversely I think coaching, execution, and lack of discipline causes a lot of games that we could have won by a larger margin to be close wins or losses. The low winning percentage in close games is probably for the same reasons; bad decision making by both coaches and players; i.e. trying to run it up the gut on 4th and goal when you are only seven points behind in the first half and have already failed on three tries; running onto the field without a helmet to celebrate a touchdown; showing off or trying to show up your opponents by diving into the end zone; jumping offside when you are trying to draw the other team offside; etc…

    When I was looking back over the numbers this morning I noticed we are 30-10 in games decided by more than eight points.

  6. skywalkerdt 11/13/2006 at 9:49 AM #

    This is not a football comment but wanted to make sure statefans is aware that a press conference has been set for tracy smith to announce his commitment for 2 eastern Monday, he is expected to announce for state according to rivals but not to sign this week

  7. GoldenChain 11/13/2006 at 10:20 AM #

    Wasn’t Nov of ’03 3 seasons ago instead of 4.
    (It just seems like we’ve lived through an extra football season!lol).

  8. GoldenChain 11/13/2006 at 10:30 AM #

    Oops, 03, 04, 05, 06. Guess that is 4 if we’re considering this one complete (and yes this one has been over for 5 weeks!).
    2 of the last 3 were losing seasons and I would say last season was as well if you consider the conference record. In fact it was a fan revolt that casued the change at QB.

    Anyone else notice the last game that Chuck was noticably absent from the Jumbotron ads?!
    There may be a reason for that.

  9. BJD95 11/13/2006 at 10:42 AM #

    Hey, I thought that first excerpted post sounded like me! And even though MD stunk it up in 2004 and 2005, here they come again with the mental toughness, setting up a showdown game with Wake Forest for the Atlantic Division title.

    That’s right, Wake Forest and Maryland – two VERY ordinary teams from a talent standpoint, will fight it out for the title in two weeks. Coaching, my friends. Coaching.

    Very good post from Class of 74 above.

  10. choppack1 11/13/2006 at 10:43 AM #

    It’s worth noting that thus far, Chuck’s high water mark is unquestionably the 2002 season (the one before this one) – where we went 5-3 in conference. To put this into perspective, MOC’s “high water mark” was a 6-2 season in his 2nd year. MOC was fired because going 3-5 in conference was not acceptable – and his teams tended to roll over and die in many contests. This will be our 3rd straight year at 3-5, but Chuck’s teams definitely have more fight in them.

  11. Wolf-n-Atl 11/13/2006 at 10:45 AM #

    I rewatched some of the game last night. It looks as though we came in prepared to play other than a few early timeouts when we were unable to break the huddle before the play clock was under 10 sec. The biggest factor I see holding us back is red zone play calling and inability to seize momentum. IF we could punch the ball into the endzone when we get down to a first and goal on the 2, we give ourselves a huge shot of confidence and also put pressure on the Tigers. Over the last few games Trestman has been horrible once we get in the redzone. When DE is in a groove throwing, we inevitably go to the run and stall our drive. When our outside runs are working, we run up the middle. Another indicator of a bad play call was our 2nd drive in the first half. We were gaining around 8-10 yards a play running to the edges. We then attempt a reverse which caused us to lose 6 yards or so. The commentator made a comment that Trestman had said we needed to eliminate negative yard plays – – THEN WHY RUN A REVERSE WHEN YOU DON’T NEED TO???

  12. partialqualifier 11/13/2006 at 10:52 AM #

    I realize that this is a shot at Amato’s personality, but as Billy Packer once said “A coaches personality is only important when he’s losing!” Altho I disagree with him, I think we can all agree that Amato is losing. Therefore I would like to make the following observations about non-coaching issues regarding our coach:

    1-Where in the hell is that raspy-voiced, bad ass, take no shit coach that we hired? The raspy voice is still there, but that is all that is left of a man that is supposed to be a fiesty Italian. He doesnt come out fighting, he doesnt stand tall, and unlike the Italians on Soprano’s….he NEVER holds anyone accountable!!! Ok…so I was joking about the Soprano’s, but if you had told me 6 years ago that this team would be having all these problems and that Amato seemed unable to do anything about them I would have laughed in your face!! He never holds anyone accountable! Players drop a million passes, commit numerous penalties, make a thousand bonehead decisions….and they still play! I would have thought he would have been a little more no-nonsense than that!

    2-Where is the agony in losing? He is a State guy and a proud man, so I am not stupid enough to think that Amato is not feeling the pain of losing. But he is taking this way to well. And dont give me that crap about “the public face” he’s putting on. Since when has Amato become media savy enough to do that (remember the non-qualifier comments). Even if he is putting on a brave face he needs to stop! Look, we are State fans. Along with many other common factors, we above nearly all other fans can stomach failure. Unfortunately in this case practice does make perfect. But what we cannot stand is “leaders” who for whatever reason do not seem to be suffering like we are! Things aint always gonna be rosy and nice. There are going to be bad times, but I want a guy down in the foxhole with me who is just as damn pissed off as I am. I want a guy who hates losing so much that he is willing to fire every coach, bench every player, turn over every stone, look behind every bush….whatever the hell you got to do! But most importantly, I want a “leader” who can look me in the eye and say “I am sorry this has not gone the way I planned. I will do everything in my power to get this fixed. I am just as disgusted as you are.” Instead we get “those guys in that locker room worked their fannies off today” …..please, I dont give a rats off about guys working their fannies off! I am pretty sure our swim team works their fannies off, but we aint paying the swim coach $600,000!!!

    At the end of the day, Chuck, we can take losing. But you gotta throw the dog a bone. We have to know that you are the man to get it fixed. We got to hear it in your voice and see it in your actions. Right now we are paying for lifetime rights to watch fannies being worked off…..and that just aint good enough!

  13. Mr O 11/13/2006 at 11:00 AM #

    It’s coaching on one side of the football. One could make an argument that our defensive coaches have done one of the better coaching jobs in the ACC in regards to the defense.

    We have lost something like 10 or 11 players over the last two years from the defensive side of the football to the NFL.

    Somebody has to get a clue on offense.

  14. choppack1 11/13/2006 at 11:20 AM #

    Mr O – You are partially correct, but it’s also part of the problem. Against Akron, UVa, GaTech and Clemson, we were tied or ahead in the 4th quarter, and we allowed the offenses to sieze momentum back. Like you, I agree that the D has played well enough to win all of the games this year w/ the exception of Southern Miss. However, whenever we needed stops the most, our d hasn’t been able to get them. I wonder if we face offenses that are intentionally conservative w/ the knowledge that our offense likely won’t produce.

  15. class of 74 11/13/2006 at 11:21 AM #

    ^^He said some of those things you wanted in point #2 two years ago and look where we are. Something to the effect losing is something that would not be happening again. IMHO his words are hollow in year seven. We have a body of work we can all make our own judgements regarding CTC and his suitability for the job here. I’ve made my decision how about you?

  16. Wolf-n-Atl 11/13/2006 at 11:49 AM #

    I have heard reporters talk about hearing yelling at half time and then asking players what was said and getting vague responses like, “He said we need to execute better.” I think Chuck tries not to embarass his players in public, but instead he ends up embarassing himself. For once he needs to say something along the lines of, “We are not getting it done when we need to and I take full responsibility.” I think if we heard that acknowledgement, it would let us know that he sees what we do. There is talent there, there is potential there but we need to seize it.

  17. wolfonthehill 11/13/2006 at 12:02 PM #

    It’s not specifically the offense… or the defense. At critical points of the game (ie, late in the first half and late in the game), both our offense and our defense will fail to do what’s needed for us to be successful. If we need to catch a pass, we drop it. If we need to keep the other team from holding the ball for 5 minutes, they keep it for 6. If we just need to run the clock out, we turn it over. If we need to avoid penalties, we commit them.

    It’s all about playing smart, disciplined, controlled football. No Chuck Amato team has yet learned how to do it. To think that they’ll magically “get it” at some point in the future is a pipe dream.

  18. Mr O 11/13/2006 at 12:08 PM #

    Choppack: It isn’t fair to select individual drives and say the defense has failed us. At the end of the game, our team is measured by the scoreboard. As far as the defense is concerned, the D has gotten the job done in keeping points off the board and put points on the board the last two weeks.

    Last three years:

    19.8 ppg
    17.7 ppg
    21.8 ppg

    Again, our defensive coaches and even Amato deserve a huge amount of credit for our defensive play. We have shown way more discipline this year on that side of the ball as well – not as many personal fouls, lining up offsides, etc….About the only two stupid penalties on defense were Tank’s in the SMU game and W. Young versus GT(which I thought was a ridiculous call anyways).

    On the other side of the ball is where we have 90% of our problems. QB, OL, TE, WR, RB…you name it and we have had problems. Ultimately it is the head coach and offensive coordinator who this falls upon. The most frustrating thing about this whole season is that we aren’t that far away.

  19. choppack1 11/13/2006 at 12:20 PM #

    Mr O – Statistically speaking you are absolutely correct. However, I look at the only 2 games where the offense didn’t need to score to win or tie the game, and our D came up terribly short. I agree w/you that our offense is the primary problem, but past history indicates to me that if a good offense needs to score against us and there’s time on the clock – they will.

  20. waxhaw 11/13/2006 at 12:22 PM #

    I believe that we aren’t that far away. My only question is will we continue to be so close yet so far away.

    I honestly don’t know which of the following two scenarios are correct.

    Scenario A — CTC is way too loyal to upper classmen who have failed, playing them in key scenarios where they make HUGE mistakes. He also has a HUGE ego that makes it difficult to interact with assitant coaches and the press. Lastly, we recruit individuals (by necessity or design) that put themselves ahead of the team and make errors in the process.

    Scenario B – CTC was bit by the lack of a quality QB and the attrition of staff hurt our continuity. Having Rivers when we did was great but actually made us seem more ahead of schedule than we actually were. We have performed above our historical level with CTC and patience will lead us to the promised land.

  21. Mr O 11/13/2006 at 12:44 PM #

    Choppack: Again, selecting a single drive out of an entire game is IMO an unfair way to look at the defense. Over the course of most games and the entire season they have played very well.

  22. choppack1 11/13/2006 at 12:48 PM #

    Scenario B is only true if you consider Rivers and you throw out expansion. Without Rivers, he’s a stunning 3-5 every year in the conference. Against, the “old” ACC, he’s 2-4, 3-3, and 1-4 this year so far. If we beat the Heels, it will be much easier, you know, we’re almost there, we just need to tweak things. Of course, you also have to consider the following – while most of those losses have been close, so have the wins:
    Of our 6 old ACC wins – 1 is an OT victory vs. WFU, 2 required INTs from the pack to hold vs. FSU, GaTech was won a last minute INT in the end zone. So, 4 of those 6 victories could have gone the other way.

    I’m willing to stick by Chuck another year, but we shouldn’t be surprised if we are having this exact same conversation next year….Actually, history shows the exact opposite. What would be a deviation from recent history is us putting together 4-4 or better.

  23. choppack1 11/13/2006 at 12:52 PM #

    “Choppack: Again, selecting a single drive out of an entire game is IMO an unfair way to look at the defense. Over the course of most games and the entire season they have played very well.”

    Why – in both of those games, the opposition’s offense could only win if they scored. Both times, they scored TD’s – w/ shocking ease. I’d really like to believe that if we just hired a good OC things would change.

    However, a) I’m not sure that Chuck can identify and/or hire such an OC and b) I’m not sure that said OC if obtained, could overcome the other gaffs that would suddenly surface…

  24. waxhaw 11/13/2006 at 1:14 PM #

    choppack — We had a lot more success with Rivers so scenario 2 would only apply to the post Rivers timeframe.

    I probably come down on the 1 more year timeframe myself. I have this feeling that we are so close and yet ultimately it has to be done on the field.

1 2

Trackbacks/Pingbacks

  1. The ACC Basketblog - 11/13/2006

    The Daily Roundup

    We’re tracking this story on the Basketblog. Get over there!!!

Leave a Reply