Tudor Talking about Duke

Caulton Tudor penned quite an interesting piece on what is (more like what is NOT) Duke ‘Football’.

Duke has every right to be as bad in football as it desires, just as it is free to retain coach Ted Roof for years to come.

But please, Duke, stop the football masquerade. Just stop it.

Stop pretending that football matters. It’s transparent. It’s also agonizing. It’s like watching a trapped animal gnaw off a foot.

It’s important to understand that unlike at most colleges, even those in the private sector, there’s no motivation at Duke to become competitive in football. Other than the coaches and the players, no one even cares enough to press the issue.

During much of the past decade, Duke football has been alternately frustrating and depressing.

Now it’s simply irrelevant. It might as well be a moon over Pluto.

Instead of starting by sending you to Tudor’s piece, we are going to send you to Dave Sez’s blog entry and comments that link the piece. (Click here)

I think Tudor’s missing an important aspect for why Duke and AD Joe Aleva don’t push harder for a better football program. It’s not because they have a huge endowment and don’t mind wasting money on football. Not at all. It’s that they simply don’t lose money. Take a look at a post I wrote back in May, 2005, looking at athletic department earnings from the 2003-04 school year. Duke made an amazing $21 million in profit that year, best in the ACC by $15 million! Why change anything? They don’t spend that much on football, but still reap in their share of the ACC’s television contracts, bowl earnings and now the ACC championship game. While their paltry attempts at winning on the field may look pathetic, to an accountant, Duke’s football team is a perfect business. But not trying, they pretty much can’t lose.

Dave Sez continues and offers the following thoughts (with which I respectfully disagree):

So what can be done? What should be done? The only thing that makes sense to me is for the rest of the ACC to step up and try to force Duke’s hand. Maybe set some sort of minimum standard that all ACC programs need to meet to stay as a full conference member. I don’t think it would be crazy to consider kicking Duke’s football team out of the conference, but keep the rest of their teams in. A better solution might be to penalize them for their failures. If they can’t compete with the rest of the conference, why should they get an equal slice of the pie? They aren’t going to bowls, they aren’t an attractive TV team and they certainly aren’t going to be playing the championship game anytime soon. Maybe if the ACC said you must average at least 2 1-AA wins per year over any 4 year period or you only get a half share in the conference. If you average under 1.5, you get a third. Less than one per year? One fourth and so on. At some point, it would no longer be financially advantage for Duke or any other program to slide by.

I ask – why do we care if Duke is more competitive in football? Seriously…

EVERY conference has at least one patsy, if not more than one. With the ACC’s new balance of power and the struggles of our North Carolina teams to attract enough talent to elevate their programs (see this link), then I don’t know why anyone should WANT Duke (or any other team in the ACC) to get better.

Duke has an excellent academic reputation. They serve the ACC extremely well across all fronts. Why not let them also serve us all well by providing easy wins for our football teams? Seriously. As if the ACC actually needs or desires more parity. Isn’t it already tough enough for the 7 or 8 teams in the middle to elevate themselves to the top of the conference? Why would we want to make the creation of another ACC/National power more difficult by pushing Duke to become more competitive?

Let’s let the Blue Devils manage their athletics program the way that they want to. From an enterprise-wide perspective, they serve the ACC very well.

General NCS Football

43 Responses to Tudor Talking about Duke

  1. choppack1 10/03/2006 at 3:47 PM #

    “Duke has never succeeded (at least in modern times) without a wide-open, pass-happy offense. They would be wise to find a Mike Leach disciple. They would still lose, but at least be watchable.”

    The only problem is that more and more, defenses can react to those offenses. (I think UMd was the last team to really utilize the run and shoot – w/ very mediocre results.)

    Texas Tech uses it, but they are also naturally a middle of the road team in that conference – so it’s hard to day.

    I wonder if a Paul Johnson would do wonders at Duke. I find the chop-blocking – whoops, I mean cut blocking – option stuff harder to defend and requiring more discipline than a 5 WR offense – but that’s just me.

  2. cfpack03 10/03/2006 at 4:00 PM #

    In Trestman’s defense, we couldn’t exactly go balls out with Stone under center. Marty, on the other hand, has no excuse. FSU will be a tough test but hopefully we’ll see some aggressive playcalling for Evans against Wake

  3. redfred2 10/03/2006 at 4:48 PM #

    “In Trestman’s defense, we couldn’t exactly go balls out with Stone under center.”

    I am still not convinced of that. I say there never any confidence coming from the staff in Stone’s abilities as a passer. He was not given any leeway to make mistakes early in games, or proper opportunities to become comfortable just throwing the football when the game wasn’t already on the line. Too much pressure not to make a mistake or lose the game, instead of get your ass out there and do something to help win it for us.

    I do not believe that Stone’s past performances are a true example of his throwing ability. If they are, then a lot of people were sadly mistaken about him coming out of high school.

  4. SixPack 10/03/2006 at 6:03 PM #

    How about Duke running the Single Wing ? It worked for us in high school (abeit a “few years” ago) when we had 180 lb linemen going up against a defensive front averaging 250+ !

  5. crackdog 10/04/2006 at 9:02 AM #

    redfred2 said:
    “If they are, then a lot of people were sadly mistaken about him coming out of high school.”

    I’ve been told that Stone’s college numbers are very similar to his high school numbers. He was quick (4.6 forty), big (6’4″ 220lbs), and strong. He possessed leadership skills that coaches want in a player at the QB position. Iowa wanted him, we wanted him, Colorado wanted him, and Arizona wanted him. He performed really well at QB camps, but his junior year he only completed 38% of his passes. In retrospect that should have been a sign, but recruiting isn’t an exact science. I just think that he has turned out to be a very average QB for the college game. Assuming that Evans or Burke can hold down the starting spot, I expect Stone to see the field again. There is always room for athletes and leaders like him on a football team.

  6. cfpack03 10/04/2006 at 9:15 AM #

    I say there never any confidence coming from the staff in Stone’s abilities as a passer.
    IMO, our coordinators were responding to his performance on field. I felt they had confidence in the first few games. I’m not going to say he had plenty of throwing ops, but he did have amble pass plays called where he could prove his ability. In the Akron game, you could see him quickly scan receivers then tuck and run. Did anyone actually watch the So Miss game? The plays I saw were the few sunshine highlights on the Amato show. Obviously his play in that game said something to the coaches b/c the next week he was given a headset and a clipboard

  7. Cardiff Giant 10/04/2006 at 9:41 AM #

    How ironic it is that Duke’s last ACC title was ten years more recent than our own.

  8. noah 10/04/2006 at 9:53 AM #

    Not very ironic at all.

    Steve Spurrier, without a doubt, is one of the top minds in college football. When he was Dook, not only did he coach well, but he recruited extremely well.

    Jon Jensen was one of the top 15 QBs in the nation and the top recruit out of Colorado. He was a good enough athlete that he made the switch to WR and did very well at Dook. Billy Ray and Dave Brown both chose Dook BECAUSE of Spurrier.

    They recruited nationally and got guys that every program would LOVE to have. The year after they won the league title, I did a feature on a kid they landed a DB from Deleware that had offers from Penn St. and Michigan. He ran a 4.4-40, was the president of the student body in high school, was valedictorian, and organized, from scratch, his own charity that focused on exposing at-risk kids on the value of a college education and showed them all the different ways you could get grants, low interest loans and scholarships to pay tuition costs. He went on to be a two-year starter at DB and ended up in medical school.

    Dick Sheridan was the high water mark in terms of football brains at NC State since Holtz left. During his time at State, we finished in second by a half-game in 1986. If Erik Kramer doesn’t sprain his ankle against South Carolina, we beat a lowly UVA team and beat Clemson for the title.

    In 1992, Sheridan would have won the league title….had that not been the first year that FSU joined the league.

    Every year since 1992, you’ve had to have a very different kind of team to win the ACC — the type of team NC State has NEVER produced in football in 114 years of competition.

  9. class of 74 10/04/2006 at 12:06 PM #

    ^Actually Steve Sloan left Spurrier with several decent players. Spurrier won more with Sloan’s players than the ones he brought in as he was only at Duke for three seasons. Spurrier became a recruiter at Florida not at Duke! In fact if you examine the records of Sloan and Barry Wilson, the coaches preceeding and following Spurrrier, both coached 4 seasons and their records were nearly identical and roughly half as many wins as Spurrier had in his three years.

    I played golf with Spurrier a couple of times and he always complemented Sloan’s recruiting efforts.

  10. redfred2 10/04/2006 at 12:23 PM #

    I’ll take what you guys are saying about Stone and we’ll see what happens if, or when, he gets another chance at it. All I was trying to say back before my last comment is that the coaches should have known long before now and been giving someone game day experience under different circumstances, in every game before NOW. Evans runs a few series the week before, late in the game when the outcome is already decided, BAM, new starting quarter back for the conference opener.

    Snatching a last seond victory from the jawls of defeat with a great throw and great catch to the corner of the end zone will not always do the trick.
    There are different defensive sets to evaluate every time a QB steps under center, a lot of options on different places of the playing field, running the right play in the red zone, what to do when leading and what to do when behind. Those are all things that the coaching staff has to have confidence in the kid who is out there, ON COLLEGE GAME DAY, will handle the way he should. They can’t find out but one way.

    Do you think maybe the coaches could have detected something to that effect in the first half against App State if Evans had been allowed to set foot on the football field then? Could the two games following possibly have been won, or better played, if they had just at least given him a chance earlier when the offense was it’s own worst enemy? Who really knows? Who really cares now? I just think that it was poor decision making.

  11. CaptainCraptacular 10/04/2006 at 1:04 PM #

    ^^^^ Noah: *If Erik Kramer doesn’t sprain his ankle against South Carolina, we beat a lowly UVA team and beat Clemson for the title.*

    Noah, we did beat Clemson in ’86, on a miserable gray rainy day 27-3. It was beautiful.

  12. Cardiff Giant 10/04/2006 at 5:08 PM #

    Noah, I agree with what you say, but I believe you misintepreted the point of my post.

    Tudor seems to be saying that Duke should give up football on the grounds that it’s become an unfixable embarassment. However, Spurrier was able to build a conference champion team there in just a few seasons. And he didn’t leave the cupboard bare when he left either, leaving his hapless successor with sufficient firepower to reach the All-America Bowl in 1994.

    So, Duke football has been top class in the conference more recently than our own program (and certainly when you consider CTC has finished no higher than FOURTH, despite all his big talk), yet there are calls for Duke to drop football because it’s become so pathetic. That, to me, is ironic indeed.

  13. redfred2 10/04/2006 at 5:46 PM #

    Cardiff

    Did you ever check out the final two comments on the bottom of the thread by Jeff/ Sept. 9 titled “Calls for Bunting’s Job grow louder?” Not the similar one on this page, but the thread back on the previous page?

  14. class of 74 10/04/2006 at 5:54 PM #

    ^Actually Spurrier’s successor did not last long enough to go to the All-America Bowl. It was Fred Goldsmith’s honor to go to Birmingham in his first season with Duke following Barry Wilson’s four year stint.

    And, I agree with your premise.

  15. StateFans 10/04/2006 at 8:03 PM #

    Great follow-up from Dave Glenn’s Blog – Link

  16. Cardiff Giant 10/05/2006 at 9:31 AM #

    ^^ Fred Goldsmith, correct. My bad on that.

  17. Cardiff Giant 10/05/2006 at 9:35 AM #

    “Cardiff

    Did you ever check out the final two comments on the bottom of the thread by Jeff/ Sept. 9 titled “Calls for Bunting’s Job grow louder?â€? Not the similar one on this page, but the thread back on the previous page?”

    Oh, you mean “Wolfpack4ever’s” little bon mots? Oh yes. He clearly does have something against higher education, doesn’t he? Of course, he appears to know nothing about people with Ph.Ds. Fortunately I am getting married to one and know he’s full of malarkey on the subject. So, I just consider the source.

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