Trestman Follow-up x3

It was only a few weeks ago that it seemed as though NC State’s Offensive Co-ordinator, Marc Trestman, was really coming into his own as a play caller and leader of the Wolfpack’s offense. We talked about it in this great entry.

But it doesn’t take long for that tune to change after a couple of weeks of horrendous offensive output against two poor defenses.

To be clear – we aren’t looking to conentrate undue amounts of criticism on Trestman because of just a couple of tough performances. Hell, in light of the fact that just a couple of weeks ago we were highlighting Trestman’s successes, then I’d say that we are pretty consistent in our conviction to talk about whatever the relevant topics of the football team are whenever they arise. We can’t help what reality; we can only discuss and analyze reality.

With ^this in mind, three very interesting related items popped up on our radar today that deserve note today.

(1) First is Section Six’s statistical analysis that “Trestman’s system peaked in its very first game”. I have often discussed with friends that I thought that the mix of offensive execution and play calling was fantastic in last year’s home opener vs Virginia Tech.

The Pack’s first possession of the game–and Trestman’s first series calling plays in college–was a fantastic 14 play, 83 yard drive that ate up six minutes and was capped by a 25-yard Darrell Blackman touchdown run. Though we ended up losing, I remember being excited about the offense’s marked improvement.

I spent the rest of 2005 wondering where that offense went. Now we’re two-thirds through 2006 and I’m still wondering.

But, take a look at the yardage numbers from the first few games of last year compared to the last thirteen games since Andre Brown had a career day against C-USA’s Southern Miss sqaud last year. In the 18 games that have followed Trestman’s first two games last year vs Virginia Tech and Eastern Kentucky, the Wolfpack has:

* gained over 350 yards only once (Andre Brown’s big performance vs So Miss).

* gained 300 or fewer yards in 12 of the last 18 games

* scored only three points in the first quarter of the past seven games.

* failed to score more than 24 points in EVERY game

(2) A poster on Pack Pride’s message boards takes ^Section Six’s analysis a step further and did an analysis of total points scored by the Wolfpack through 8 games.

NC State has scored only 148 points through 8 games this season. Over the last 20 years NC State has only ONCE scored less points through eight games than have been scored this season. That was the 4-7 season in 1987 when the Pack was shut-out twice and managed only three points against Wake Foresta 3rd. 7 of the 20 seasons have seen the Wolfpack fail to score at least 200 points at this point of the season – 2 of those 7 occurences have been turned-in by Marc Trestman.

(3) The post-game “Good & the Bad” article at Pack Pride is really good this week. The following quote is very insightful into the conversation about Trestman and what is wrong with the Wolfpack’s offense. We haven’t seen any of this – or any of the statistical information – in the mass media.

No Identity: Watch teams across college football and you generally know what they are going to do on offense… you get a feel for their offensive philosophy.

Wake Forest is going to run the ball out of a spread formation, using misdirection, reverses, and counters… but you can count on them to continue running the football. BC is going to play smashmouth football and come at you with playaction. UVA, as mentioned early, will use their athletic offensive line to run stretches, screens, and bootleg leads. Clemson is going to pound away with a strong offensive line and C.J. Spiller and James Davis. The question is, what is NC State’s identity?

I think this remains a question because of offensive coordinator Marc Trestman and his west coast offense that is being instilled from his NFL background. Teams like UVA, Wake, and BC almost appear too simplistic on offense, however they are effective because they know exactly what they are going to do and practice, practice, practice those same formations every day of the week. With NC State, you never know if they are going to come out in five-wides or three-wides, the power-I or split backs, shotgun with two tight ends or shotgun with two tailbacks… you get the idea. NC State appears to be TOO “multiple” on offense.

Realistically, can that offensive unit practice sufficiently ALL of those different formations or packages in practice and be expected to operate flawlessly without mistakes on Saturdays? College football isn’t the NFL. You don’t get to practice plays eight hours a day and work on various formations throughout the week because the NCAA limits practice time. This could be an underlying factor in NC State’s consistent problems with missed assignments, illegal formations, and illegal shifts on offense.

NC State needs to find that identity. They need to find out what they really want to do on offense and base everything else off of it. Do they want to go to a no-huddle offense with Daniel Evans and keep him comfortable while using an emerging group of wideouts? Do they want to run, run, and run the ball with their two tailbacks like Clemson does each week?

Whatever it is, they need to find it because as the saying goes, practice makes perfect, and maybe there just isn’t enough time to practice and perfect everything NC State is currently doing on offense.

About StateFans

'StateFansNation' is the shared profile used by any/all of the dozen or so authors that contribute to the blog. You may not always agree with us, but you will have little doubt about where we stand on most issues. Please follow us on Twitter and FaceBook

'06 Football General

91 Responses to Trestman Follow-up x3

  1. Woof Wolf 10/30/2006 at 5:39 PM #

    I wonder what it would feel like to have a nine point lead with three minutes to play. Then we wouldn’t have to depend on the defense saving our butts.

  2. Cardiff Giant 10/30/2006 at 5:41 PM #

    The Wake stat is telling. The difference is that Wake Forest players are highly motivated and play disciplined yet intense football. We are precisely the reverse of that.

  3. Cardiff Giant 10/30/2006 at 5:42 PM #

    And I am uncertain as to some of this love for the defense. Generally it’s a good unit – except when it really, really counts. Then it allows the other team to move down the field at will, as happened with UVa, Maryland (to some extent) and WAS CLEARLY HAPPENING WITH FSU until the poorly timed throw that led to the pick.

  4. redfred2 10/30/2006 at 6:00 PM #

    Cardiff, what about UVA’s defense on that one drive. They held all day except for that one drive.

    All I’m trying to say is that when you have RB’s the calibre of Brown and Davis, receivers like Dunlap, Blackmon, Hill, and Jones, and a competent young QB, it should not ALWAYS have to come down to the defense stopping the opposition on ONE drive.

  5. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 10/30/2006 at 6:02 PM #

    Cardiff-

    Don’t forget Akron.

  6. Mr O 10/30/2006 at 6:04 PM #

    Cardiff: Picking out one drive per game will make any defense look bad. The fact remains that against Va we allowed 14 pts. Against, we gave up 26 total, but 14 were off of turnovers inside our own 20.

    Additionally, with our offense never giving the defense any cushion with long, consistent drives and us having so many three and outs, it is almost amazing that our D is as good as it is.

    Especially when you consider six defensive starters off of last year’s team have been contributing on NFL rosters this season.

    1. Hoyte – Fullback/special teams
    2. Hudson – backup DB
    3. Lawson – starting LB
    4. McCargo – backup DT until injury
    5. M Williams- Starter, 3.5 sacks so far
    6. Tulloch – not sure, but I think he is in the rotation.

    The bottom line is that our defense is giving us a chance.

  7. Mr O 10/30/2006 at 6:12 PM #

    Noel Mazzone with Jay Davis –

    349 yards per game
    202 yards passing
    147 yards rushing
    24 points per game

    Trestman with Davis/Stone –
    314 yards per game
    190 yards passing
    124 yards rushing
    20.8 points per game

    Trestman with Stone/Evans thru 8 games
    298.6 yards per game
    172 yards passing
    126.6 yards rushing
    18.5 points per game
    20.8 points per game

  8. Mr O 10/30/2006 at 6:15 PM #

    So with Trestman, our points per game has dropped by almost a touchdown(5.5 pts). We are averaging 50 yards less per game in total offense(30 yards less passing and 21 yards less rushing).

    Yet, Mazzone was the most hated OOC I can ever remember walking the sidelines at CF. Go figure.

  9. Mr O 10/30/2006 at 6:18 PM #

    One thing to consider is the new rule changes reducin scoring overall by about 10% and number of plays per game by 10%. So comparing Trestman to Mazzone is not exactly a fair comparison.

  10. redfred2 10/30/2006 at 6:28 PM #

    Speaking of the OL, the sack total is not that bad, as was pointed out to me earlier(!). Even so, I agree with what Mike? said on another thread, move the pocket on occasion to throw off the oncoming rush. It’s all been pretty much straight drop back passing when throwing the ball downfield, which puts more pressure on the OL and limits the QB’s ability to avoid the sack. Also limits the QB’s ability to tuck and run for yardage when the receivers are covered.

  11. choppack1 10/30/2006 at 7:34 PM #

    partial – your post is a good one. I think you mentioned a valuable point I’m making – part of a HC’s (or any executive for that manner) is to be able to identify talented and effective personnell. Amato does this very well when it comes to recruiting. However, when it comes to identifying good offensive coaches, his last 2 hires have been inadequate.

    You mentioned Steve Spurrier. Spurrier may totally delegate the defensive duties on his team, but he evidently knows defensive talent when he sees it. One of my fears of Amato is that he doesn’t delegate the offensive side of the ball enough. Managers who delegate a great deal usually don’t have the hard time finding folks to work w/ them that micro-managers do. It makes me wonder how much Amato really does delegate the offense.

  12. highstick 10/30/2006 at 7:41 PM #

    I said this several months ago, but this whole thing goes back to “Lack of Institutional Control” which is the indictment that Jimmy V got when he was AD and Head BB Coach. There is absolutely no institutional control when an AD/Athletic Department can allow situations such as Sendek and BB Program and Chuck/his assistants/and the Football program to develop/decline/and fester for so long without any apparent concern.

    The buck has to stop with Fowler and all of this will never change as long as Lee Fowler is allowed to be AD. Fire the SOB and get someone who will hold the coaches accountable for the performance of their teams both on and off the field.

    Trestman is not the problem, Chuck is not the problem, they are simply symptoms of a failed Administration and Athletic Department!!!!!!

  13. redfred2 10/30/2006 at 8:14 PM #

    highstick

    AGREED!!! In the later stages it wasn’t Herb Sendek’s fault either, he had just fallen in with the crowd in Raleigh and was comfortably following their lead. I’ve said it before also, it is not one or two individuals, but the mindset of of the whole upper echelon that govern NC State University. They have no bearing to effect positive change and their mundane and mediocre personas rub off on everyone they hire, from the absolute top, down to the lowest on the totem pole.

  14. Mr O 10/30/2006 at 8:17 PM #

    What evidence or inside knowledge is there that suggests that Amato micro-manages our offensive staff? You can definitely blame him for bad hires, but I know of nothing that leads me to believe that Amato is controlling the offense.

    Again, in 5 years without an OC named Mark Trestman our offenses have been relatively successful(24 pts per game+) to some of the best in the ACC. With Trestman we are averaging under 20 points per game.

  15. highstick 10/30/2006 at 8:38 PM #

    Factor out Phillip Rivers anytime you want to quote stats! He is/was in a “league of his own” and a moron could have been calling the plays.

    Oh, excuse me, maybe one was calling two QB sneaks against Ohio State at the goal line!

  16. redfred2 10/30/2006 at 8:47 PM #

    O

    None that I know of anyway. But whether he is a micro manager or totally hands off, Amato is ultimately responsibile. It’s like the administration as it relates to coaching. Administration isn’t supposed know all of the particulars of coaching, but they are supposed to set overall guidelines and goals, and then follow along closely enough to see that those in charge of the particular areas, are accomplishing their jobs within a reasonable time frame.

  17. Mr O 10/30/2006 at 8:49 PM #

    That was Rivers who called the QB sneaks. I purposedly didn’t include the statistics from the Rivers’ years.

    I purposely included our offense stats with Jay Davis and Noel Mazzone to compare to Trestman. NC State fans disapproved of Mazzone across the board.

  18. golf76 10/30/2006 at 10:13 PM #

    You guys are missing the point. We won the National Collegiate Bass Fishing Championship. We’re national champions!

  19. Wolfpack4ever 10/30/2006 at 10:42 PM #

    tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc Says: “Let Trestman go, thank him for his loyal service and give Dwayne Dixon a shot. The man has 15 years experience working with the Florida offense and he is already on staff coaching the receivers.

    His gopack.com bio looks like he has paid his dues and should be given a chance.”

    Not to get into the Trestman argument and I won’t but I will say that giving Dwayne Dixon a shot is a good idea. It doesn’t guarnatee anything but is worth considering.

  20. Wolfpack4ever 10/30/2006 at 10:56 PM #

    choppack1 Says: “…One of my fears of Amato is that he doesn’t delegate the offensive side of the ball enough. Managers who delegate a great deal usually don’t have the hard time finding folks to work w/ them that micro-managers do. It makes me wonder how much Amato really does delegate the offense.”

    Choppack, can delegation skills be taught? If so, the AD is not doing his job if he isn’t working with Chuck in this regard. (Incoming!! Here it comes about the AD. No matter what we think of him, we don’t really know if he is or isn’t working with CA.) I suspect that Choppack is right dead on about this. If so we really do have a serious problem. I’ve often wondered why some of our coaches are so old. I wouldn’t think older coaches have the opportunities younger to middle age coaches do.

  21. Wolfpack4ever 10/30/2006 at 11:02 PM #

    highstick Says: …this whole thing goes back to “Lack of Institutional Controlâ€? which is the indictment that Jimmy V got when he was AD and Head BB Coach. There is absolutely no institutional control when an AD/Athletic Department can allow situations such as …”

    Can anybody set the record straight with regard to “Institutional Control”? It is my understanding that the AD has to have the concurrence of the Chancellor in order to fire the HCs. Calling for Fowler’s head is a red herring if this is so. Maybe this shouldn’t be clarified for obvious reasons.

  22. choppack1 10/30/2006 at 11:04 PM #

    “What evidence or inside knowledge is there that suggests that Amato micro-manages our offensive staff? You can definitely blame him for bad hires, but I know of nothing that leads me to believe that Amato is controlling the offense.

    Again, in 5 years without an OC named Mark Trestman our offenses have been relatively successful(24 pts per game+) to some of the best in the ACC. With Trestman we are averaging under 20 points per game.”

    None really about Amato micromanaging…just odd that a coach who was a pleasure to work for would have a hard time w/ retention and filling open spots.

    O – you bring up some decent points – but one would also say that once we lost a QB who is now starting in the NFL – our offense has become a bad joke. We did put up some good #s at times w/ Mazzone, but we haven’t since – and he didn’t put them up consistently either. Hey, maybe I’m wrong and Amato really knows good OCs and can relate good enough w/ them to hire one – I hope so.

  23. Wolfpack4ever 10/30/2006 at 11:07 PM #

    highstick Says: “Philip Rivers was in a league of his own… a moron could have been calling the plays.

    Oh, excuse me, maybe one was calling two QB sneaks against Ohio State at the goal line!”

    What Philip said was that he audibled those 2 sneaks. Great calls –reminds me of Steve Beurlien’s QB draw for a TD — if they work.

  24. Wolfpack4ever 10/30/2006 at 11:12 PM #

    It has abeen reported here that Chuck told Marty G “Pass and you are fired.” That is both evidence of Micro-management and a very possible reason why Marty moved on.

    Assistants can’t “blow the whistle” on HCs or they will be black-balled just like in any other industry.

  25. Wolfpack4ever 10/30/2006 at 11:17 PM #

    redfred2 Says: “Cardiff, what about UVA’s defense on that one drive. They held all day except for that one drive.

    All I’m trying to say is that when you have RB’s the calibre of Brown and Davis, receivers like Dunlap, Blackmon, Hill, and Jones,”

    Are you talking about Reggie Davis? And who is the Jones? Do you mean James? Donald Bowens is a freshman who is contributing at WR.

Leave a Reply