Trestman Follow-up x3

It was only a few weeks ago that it seemed as though NC State’s Offensive Co-ordinator, Marc Trestman, was really coming into his own as a play caller and leader of the Wolfpack’s offense. We talked about it in this great entry.

But it doesn’t take long for that tune to change after a couple of weeks of horrendous offensive output against two poor defenses.

To be clear – we aren’t looking to conentrate undue amounts of criticism on Trestman because of just a couple of tough performances. Hell, in light of the fact that just a couple of weeks ago we were highlighting Trestman’s successes, then I’d say that we are pretty consistent in our conviction to talk about whatever the relevant topics of the football team are whenever they arise. We can’t help what reality; we can only discuss and analyze reality.

With ^this in mind, three very interesting related items popped up on our radar today that deserve note today.

(1) First is Section Six’s statistical analysis that “Trestman’s system peaked in its very first game”. I have often discussed with friends that I thought that the mix of offensive execution and play calling was fantastic in last year’s home opener vs Virginia Tech.

The Pack’s first possession of the game–and Trestman’s first series calling plays in college–was a fantastic 14 play, 83 yard drive that ate up six minutes and was capped by a 25-yard Darrell Blackman touchdown run. Though we ended up losing, I remember being excited about the offense’s marked improvement.

I spent the rest of 2005 wondering where that offense went. Now we’re two-thirds through 2006 and I’m still wondering.

But, take a look at the yardage numbers from the first few games of last year compared to the last thirteen games since Andre Brown had a career day against C-USA’s Southern Miss sqaud last year. In the 18 games that have followed Trestman’s first two games last year vs Virginia Tech and Eastern Kentucky, the Wolfpack has:

* gained over 350 yards only once (Andre Brown’s big performance vs So Miss).

* gained 300 or fewer yards in 12 of the last 18 games

* scored only three points in the first quarter of the past seven games.

* failed to score more than 24 points in EVERY game

(2) A poster on Pack Pride’s message boards takes ^Section Six’s analysis a step further and did an analysis of total points scored by the Wolfpack through 8 games.

NC State has scored only 148 points through 8 games this season. Over the last 20 years NC State has only ONCE scored less points through eight games than have been scored this season. That was the 4-7 season in 1987 when the Pack was shut-out twice and managed only three points against Wake Foresta 3rd. 7 of the 20 seasons have seen the Wolfpack fail to score at least 200 points at this point of the season – 2 of those 7 occurences have been turned-in by Marc Trestman.

(3) The post-game “Good & the Bad” article at Pack Pride is really good this week. The following quote is very insightful into the conversation about Trestman and what is wrong with the Wolfpack’s offense. We haven’t seen any of this – or any of the statistical information – in the mass media.

No Identity: Watch teams across college football and you generally know what they are going to do on offense… you get a feel for their offensive philosophy.

Wake Forest is going to run the ball out of a spread formation, using misdirection, reverses, and counters… but you can count on them to continue running the football. BC is going to play smashmouth football and come at you with playaction. UVA, as mentioned early, will use their athletic offensive line to run stretches, screens, and bootleg leads. Clemson is going to pound away with a strong offensive line and C.J. Spiller and James Davis. The question is, what is NC State’s identity?

I think this remains a question because of offensive coordinator Marc Trestman and his west coast offense that is being instilled from his NFL background. Teams like UVA, Wake, and BC almost appear too simplistic on offense, however they are effective because they know exactly what they are going to do and practice, practice, practice those same formations every day of the week. With NC State, you never know if they are going to come out in five-wides or three-wides, the power-I or split backs, shotgun with two tight ends or shotgun with two tailbacks… you get the idea. NC State appears to be TOO “multiple” on offense.

Realistically, can that offensive unit practice sufficiently ALL of those different formations or packages in practice and be expected to operate flawlessly without mistakes on Saturdays? College football isn’t the NFL. You don’t get to practice plays eight hours a day and work on various formations throughout the week because the NCAA limits practice time. This could be an underlying factor in NC State’s consistent problems with missed assignments, illegal formations, and illegal shifts on offense.

NC State needs to find that identity. They need to find out what they really want to do on offense and base everything else off of it. Do they want to go to a no-huddle offense with Daniel Evans and keep him comfortable while using an emerging group of wideouts? Do they want to run, run, and run the ball with their two tailbacks like Clemson does each week?

Whatever it is, they need to find it because as the saying goes, practice makes perfect, and maybe there just isn’t enough time to practice and perfect everything NC State is currently doing on offense.

About StateFans

'StateFansNation' is the shared profile used by any/all of the dozen or so authors that contribute to the blog. You may not always agree with us, but you will have little doubt about where we stand on most issues. Please follow us on Twitter and FaceBook

'06 Football General

91 Responses to Trestman Follow-up x3

  1. packpigskinfan23 10/30/2006 at 2:56 PM #

    ^how did he get 220 yards and only on TD?!?! POOR BLOCKING, WORSE penaltys, and horrible play calling.

    I too agree that the other parts of our team seem to be coming together pretty well(that is until Derany’s recent slip)…

    its our offense that is the problem.

    if Evans want to go no huddle, then damn it Trestman GO NO HUDDLE!!!!

  2. joe 10/30/2006 at 2:58 PM #

    Does anyone think Trestman will be back next year? He might as well go ahead and start selling his house now (if he bought one) The OC and DC are always scapegoats whenever a coach is under fire.

  3. packpigskinfan23 10/30/2006 at 3:00 PM #

    if you cant get first down… its always gonna be 3 and out. thats all.

  4. choppack1 10/30/2006 at 3:05 PM #

    I think we’re making a little bit of a jump here that most of the blame lies w/ Trestman. I’m not sure it does.

    Let me start off by saying – I’m not happy at all w/ our offensive and I think it’s infuriating watching an offense that doesn’t seem to have been prepped to do certain things that they can exploit in its opponent before the whistle is blown for it’s 1st offensive set.

    However, this is the second offensive coordinator in a row that our fans have taken a distinct disliking to -and as others have said, Galbraith even caught heat for his play calling.

    I’ll use my tried and true restaurant analogy. The last 4 years, we’ve gone through 2 head chefs – yet the food still stinks. Everyone in the restaurant appears to be trying really hard, but the food is some of the worst you’ll find around. Now, could it be possible that the owner of the restaurant either a) is such a bear to work for that good help would rather not work there? b) the owner is hamstringing the chefs in some way that results in subpar cooking or c) the owner doesn’t have a clue what or who makes good food??

    It seems a little strange that for the last 4 or 5 years, we’ve wanted to blame our OC – when does the HC become accountable?

    Let’s face it, the last 2 OCs we’ve hired and the last DC we’ve hired are “re-treads.” They all of have some good things on their resume, but they certainly weren’t at the height of their profession – nor where they up and comers. I think the results we’re seeing are entirely forseeable. I took a lot of heat a couple of years ago when I openly wondered if Mazzone was the problem w/ our offense. Now I’m asking the same thing – is this really Trestman’s fault? I mean, if we can all agree that Trestman is not getting the most out of this offense, what does that say about hiring him in the first place?

  5. justaguy 10/30/2006 at 3:07 PM #

    The wolfpack offense was at its best when Daniel Evans took over. Why? Because the offense suddenly gained an element of unpredictability. Then, after a couple of games, a new predictability set in and MD, UVA, and the rest of Div I football have now figured it out.

  6. Pack Laddie 10/30/2006 at 3:09 PM #

    I posted this on the other thread. Also fits here—

    One of our staff told me when Amato hired Trestman that it was a big mistake. He had gotten a call from a NFL assistant who had worked with Trestman, and asked what Chuck was doing hiring this guy. Said he was a divisive influence on the staff when they worked together, and his reputation around the NFL was not a good one.

    Unfortunately, a lot of people were not taking Chuck’s calls, and he had to take what he could get.

    I am afraid that situation still exists.

  7. choppack1 10/30/2006 at 3:21 PM #

    P Laddie – Interesting. A friend of mine who was a big dolphins fan and knows pro football really well was not happy w/ the hire either.

  8. joe 10/30/2006 at 3:25 PM #

    And how many OCs are going to take Chuck’s calls this year?

    Maybe Charlie Weis will come? Not the ND guy, the guy from Bunn high school. 🙂

  9. RAWFS 10/30/2006 at 3:36 PM #

    That Bunn team is not anything to laugh at, they’re solid.

  10. Woof Wolf 10/30/2006 at 3:38 PM #

    In the 17 years that Trestman was in the NFL he worked for 9 different teams. The longest he stayed in one place was 3 years. He was OC of the Raiders when they went to the Super Bowl in 2003. A year later he was with the Dolphins and a year after that in Raleigh.

    Whatever the reason for him moving so often, it probably isn’t good. But he’s not all of the problem.

  11. RickJ 10/30/2006 at 3:38 PM #

    The ACC site has some interesting team stats. I decided to look at NC State (3 – 5) and Wake Forest (7 – 1) as a comparison.

    Stats that don’t seem to matter much in explaining the records:

    Total Offense – State – 299 yards, Wake – 295 yards;
    Total Defense – State – 305 yards, Wake – 312 yards;

    State has made 126 first downs (12th in ACC), Wake has made 129 (11th in ACC)

    Based on these stats, Wake’s offense is just as bad as ours and the defenses are similar.

    There is surprisingly little difference in penalty yardage. State averages 57 yards per game and Wake 48. Interestingly, our opponents average 59 yards of penalties against us for a net + 2 yards per game in our favor. Wake’s opponents are penalized only 37 yards per game meaning they are – 11 yards per game in penalties.

    Stats that do seem to matter:

    Obviously Turnovers – State has gained 6 and lost 16. Wake has gained 16 and lost 11.

    Passing Efficiency – State 110, Wake 150.

    Wake passes a lot less than we do but they have been able to make huge plays in the passing game. Their games against us and UNC are perfect examples. The 57 yard pass play for a touchdown at the end of the first half against us and the 37 yard game winner in Chapel Hill. They were only 9 for 14 passing against us and 7 for 8 against UNC. This reminds me of Sheridan’s offenses.

    Red Zone Offense – State is 8th in the league at 80% scoring.
    Wake is 1st in the league at 91% scoring.

    Red Zone Defense – State is 11th in the league at 93% giving up a score.
    Wake is 2nd in the league at 65.4% giving up a score.

    The above red zone percentages are staggering when you consider our total offense and total defense statistics. Wake is getting it done when it counts the most.

    Mr. O – The Pack is tied for 3rd in the league in giving up 13 sacks this year.

  12. SixPack 10/30/2006 at 3:42 PM #

    Regarding the last two OC hires….you’ll notice that Mazzoni didn’t last long at Ole Miss (after he left STATE) either ! I talked to an Ole Miss grad I use to have as a customer and he sounded like a Pack fan in terms of his complaints. He said they couldn’t wait to get rid of him !

    Is Trestman in the same mold ? Maybe CTC’s hires are sub par…..who’s fault is that ? Not the training facilities, not the sold out stadium, not the amount of $ poured into the program by WPC, not the fans (even though we are givien credit for “firing” Herb. If only we had that kind of power)!

    Its either poor judgement during the hire process OR an HC only rejects will accept a job with.
    Come on BB…please retire so CTC can go back down to FSU (staff and all) !

  13. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 10/30/2006 at 3:46 PM #

    Let Trestman go, thank him for his loyal service and give Dwayne Dixon a shot. The man has 15 years experience working with the Florida offense and he is already on staff coaching the receivers.

    His gopack.com bio looks like he has paid his dues and should be given a chance.

  14. sksr97 10/30/2006 at 3:49 PM #

    I agree the offense is trying to do to much. Anyone notice how one series Lathan is the Center and Harris is moved down the line then the next series Harris is back at Center??

    The line doesn’t have the opportunity to be consistent and gel.
    Play calling is awful.

    Simplify things:
    Andre Brown 20 carries = 100+ yds
    Daniel Evans 20 – 30 attempts = 200+ yds
    The two together equals 24+ points and some victories!!!!!

  15. redfred2 10/30/2006 at 4:01 PM #

    I said it before on an earlier thread, the head coach doesn’t just sit there on the sidelines watching placidly, week after week, as all of his hard work gets thrown out the window by someone else on gameday.

    I do not like anything I seen with exception of the single diversion from the ordinary in the FSU game. But taking into account Amato’s continued stoicism on the sidelines, I would have to believe Trestman is doing about what he is told. Nothing less. Absolutely nothing more.

  16. redfred2 10/30/2006 at 4:07 PM #

    “The Pack is tied for 3rd in the league in giving up 13 sacks this year.”

    Part of that I contribute to when the pass is used. Of course we know this has never happened before but, when it’s late, you’re behind, the defense pins it’s ears back and comes all out. There is nothing else for them to worry about and the sacks pile up.

  17. RickJ 10/30/2006 at 4:10 PM #

    ^“The Pack is tied for 3rd in the league in giving up 13 sacks this year.�

    Redfred2 – This stat means we give up very few sacks compared to the rest of the league. Mr. O originally pointed this out to support his belief that our OL is not as bad as some are making it out to be.

  18. redfred2 10/30/2006 at 4:15 PM #

    RickJ

    You had to point that out, TO EVERYONE!

    Thanks, Redface2

    My brain is fried, I’m retiring for the day.

  19. partialqualifier 10/30/2006 at 4:22 PM #

    As an adendum to everyone’s comments and mine as well:

    I am appalled that anyone is questioning whether or not Trestman can coach at NC State. Maybe it’s him, maybe it’s Amato, maybe it’s Evans, the OLine or whatever…but it is OBVIOUS that Trestman isnt getting the job done. Again, I challenge anyone to use whatever measuring stick you want…you choose….pick anything…and you cannot find any measure of success with Trestman. None. Maybe he’s a fantastic coach…but he does not fit well at NC State. Period. I dont even know what there is to debate. Show me something our offense has done well since he’s been here. Please. You wanna use wins, stats, QB improvement, overall execution, points, run offense, pass offense, improvement of the unit as a whole, or whatever u use….please find something for me that this offense has excelled at under Trestman.

    As for the Trestman/Amato arguement… there are many, many things you can point to that Amato has done well at NC State. There are none for Trestman. Trestman goes. Amato stays(at least for one more year).

    With that said…Amato HAS to get someone in here who knows how to run a COLLEGE offense….not a pro offense. It doesnt have to be a huge name…it just has to be a smart hire. I love the idea of Cignetti. I also like going to smaller schools for an OC. Give me somebody who is used to trying to win without world-class atheltes. It takes a helluva lot more planning and ingenuity to move the ball with those kind of players. Amato went to Auburn and the NFL for the last 2 guys and they were miserable. I will guarantee every last one of you that if State has a halfway decent offense next year this team will win 8 or 9 games. Easy. If he cant hire a decent OC…then yea, you gotta throw Amato under the bus as well.

    Amato is a defensive coach. He knows defense and special teams. You can pretty much count on State being pretty good at both of those under Amato. Unfortunately he has no clue about offense. Maybe he should…but some guys are just like that. When you have a coach who is a “one side of the ball” kinda guy then you are always at the mercy of your coordinator calling the signals for the other side of the ball. I personally think you are better off with an offensive minded head coach…as it is usually easier to find a good DC than it is to find a good OC. Amato isnt the only coach like this. Take Steve Spurrier. He never goes to defensive meetings, has nothing to do with defensive game planning, and most of the time cant even tell you who is defensive starters are. Earlier in the year he was asked what kind of off season adjustments he had made with last year’s struggling defense….Spurrier said he told the defensive co. they needed more 3 and outs! Now that’s a complicated adjustment! He is at the mercy of his DC. The difference of course is Spurrier coaches offense and can usually score enough to make up for the defense’s lousy play…not to mention that he is great at hiring guys to run the D. And this takes me to Amato again. It’s ok that he is lost when it comes to offense, because he is good at other things. But the difference between good assistants and good head coaches is that good head coaches can hire effectively. So far Amato is seriously lacking in this category.

  20. Wolf-n-Atl 10/30/2006 at 4:29 PM #

    With most of the acc games this season being very close, the difference between winning and losing can be razor thin and may not show up on the season stats. For example, the false start on the 4th and 1 changes the whole complextion of the UVA game. If we get that 1st down, the momentum swings towards us and away from UVA. As we know, it did the complete opposite.

    In the Maryland game, it could have been the fumble in the 3rd quarter.

    Point is, it is often a few small things that are the difference in the game. Seeing as we can all find many instances of mistakes by individual players, coaches and plain bad luck it is hard to blame it all on one person/thing.

    That being said, I still think our offense is the root of our problems. If our offense scores, it helps inspire the defense. If I was on our d and I saw the o go out and score a TD or field goal on the oppening drive of the game – it would give me a sense of responsibility to keep the opponent from scoring. As it is now, they feel like they carry the burden since the offense is not scoring.

  21. Mr O 10/30/2006 at 4:32 PM #

    Personally, I never understood the complaints about Galbraith..even Mazzone to an extent. Fans always complain about OC whether or not the OCs deserve complaints or not.

    With Chuck as our coach, we have had fairly successful offenses in 5 of seven years. Even with Mazzone, we outgained every one of our opponents. Galbraith and Chose both did well also.

    In two of Amato’s seven years, we have had completely inept offenses – both with Trestman as our OC.

    It isn’t like we have always been terrible with Amato as our head coach.

  22. Pack Laddie 10/30/2006 at 4:33 PM #

    I think our defense is like the pitcher that takes the mound, knowing he better not give up more than 2 runs, because that is about all the run support he is going to get.

    The offense energized for a couple of games, and because of that, the D got an extra bounce in their step, but the O has gone back into its shell again.

    Scoring 7 is not going to beat a lot of people.

  23. Mike 10/30/2006 at 4:50 PM #

    Good point Laddie. 7 rarely wins. 24 usually wins. With Chuck’s reputation and defensive prowess, let’s put 24 on the board and take our chances. We put 24 on the board and take our chances, I think we have a good chance to win 10 games a year.

  24. redfred2 10/30/2006 at 5:17 PM #

    Laddie,

    That is it exactly. Everybody points out the late game defensive woes and it usually all comes to fruition in the final quarter. But a lift here or there with an early score, a just a few less plays on the field because of better offensive sets, and the defense could be, and already is, holding it’s own.

  25. MatSci94 10/30/2006 at 5:31 PM #

    “The Pack is tied for 3rd in the league in giving up 13 sacks this year.�

    The numbers I heard on the radio were 6 sacks in the last two games. Not a great trend…

    On another note, I’m not sure why the 4 OC’s in 7 years keeps getting tossed around. One of those OC’s left for a star program after only 1 year. Did we fire Galbrath also? The 4 in 7 thing makes it sound like we dumped everyone under the bus.

Leave a Reply