23 Continues to be Less than 24

'06 Football General49

Did you know that NC State has NOT SCORED a point on the first drive of a game or the first drive of a half this season?

In this entry from last Friday (By the way – we were on fire last Friday; I hope that you continue to visit us multiple times during the day to make sure that you aren’t missing things) we talked about offense coordinator, Marc Trestman’s improved performance now that he has Daniel Evans to run his offense.

In Friday’s entry, we also highlighted that in 17 games under Trestman’s leadership the NC State offense has managed to score more than 24 points only once – against Eastern Kentucky. Make that 18 games after Saturday.

We are definitely not looking to throw heaps of criticism in Trestman’s direction; but, we did find it sadly ironic that we were just talking about this 24 point mark the day before the Pack scored only 23 and our opponent scored 25. We do think that criticism does deserve to be directed at ANY member of the NC State coaching staff responsible for handing the ball to Andre Brown only eight times in an entire game. We also would like to teach the staff how to chip defensive ends with backs coming out of the backfield to help Daniel Evans get the ball past the line of scrimmage on well-designed swing passes. A well designed play doesn’t help a lot if you can’t get it executed.

At least the Wolfpack (slightly) moved up the national statistical rankings as highlighted here.

In closing, we generally agree with the following comments from one of our readers in the other entry. BUT, we are growing antsy for some friggin points with an offense loaded with talent at the skill positions.

I tend to cut Trestman some slack. He has had – up until this point – a one dimensional offense out of necessity ( and the abilities of the previous two QBs (though I thought Davis was better than Stone ) has been well chronicled.) Giving defenses fits starts with offensive balance. When you can provide a balanced attack on offense, the defense has to atleast respect the passing and the running game which will leave defenses guessing.

I will have MUCH more faith in him if he can consistently get to 3rd and short rather than 3rd and long. The total points doesn’t bother me all that much because every game is different. I think you will see the scoring opportunities increase as the season progresses. The only scoring totals that matter to me are the ones at the end of the game and as long as State’s points are > than the opponents points then i don’t care if its 2-0.

Updated Note: – Just found this link talking about the 24 point plateau as the Wolfpack’s Mendoza Line. Good stuff.

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'06 Football General

49 Responses to 23 Continues to be Less than 24

  1. class of 74 10/17/2006 at 12:20 PM #

    Regarding the passing game controversy. Several of Evans passes have been into double coverage and our guys won the jump ball. The final pass of the BC game is one prime example. Their safety did a poor job on that play of helping the cornerback in a prevent coverage.

    For various reasons, which at times seem baffling, we don’t do a good job of using the middle of the field for our passing game. If someone charted the passes thrown, and their location on the field, over 80% would be sideline routes and little swing routes out of the backfield. When we use the TE it usually seems to be a little delay slant to the outside or a corner route. The center of the field is not just for running plays, just ask Lou Holtz when he was here.

  2. noah 10/17/2006 at 12:49 PM #

    “I don’t think we attacked the seams or the space between the LBs and safeties enough. I think we tried entirely to often to swing it to the flats and I don’t think that is prone to be successful against a decent zone.”

    You’d have to look at the endzone cameras up on Chuck’s patio to know whether or not Evans made the right reads. It would be interesting to know how he graded out…

    Regarding the last play of the BC game, I’m going off memory, but the safety was late coming over. He turned his back to Dunlap and by the time he rotated back, the only thing he could do is to try and knock the ball free, but Dunlap held on.

  3. Woof Wolf 10/17/2006 at 1:05 PM #

    Not only have we not scored on an opening drive, except for the 1AA game, we haven’t scored a point all year when we were ahead or tied. I know I’ve said this before, but I believe this is because of a very conservative coaching philosophy.

    Our coaches already know what plays to call to get us down the field and score. When we are behind, we run exactly the right plays. With a timeout and a conscious QB, we probably would have won Saturday. But when we get a lead we crawl back into our shell. Again, except for the 1AA game, our biggest lead has been 4 points.

    We need to open the game with a plan to score as many points as we can as quick as we can. Don’t stop until we have a big enough lead to go conservative and run out the clock.

    We may make a turnover that costs us a game or two, but we might get some blowouts in some of “the games we should win.” If our talent is as good as we think we may even have a really good year real soon.

    Hey, maybe if we got a seven point, lead the other team might have to open up a little, and we might make an interception of recover a fumble.

  4. Micky McCarthy 10/17/2006 at 1:09 PM #

    As far as chipping the defensive ends, if you are in a one back set and the running back is headed into the flat on a circle route, then the tackles have to “chip” the defensive ends.

    The problem is, our two tackles are too fat and/or unathletic to get in a three point stance, much less bring their pads low to knock the legs of a rushing defensive end.

    We have the two worst offensive tackles in the league.

    SFN: The problem is also that we should be running a lot more two back sets with both Baker & Brown in the backfield.

  5. Wolfpack4ever 10/17/2006 at 1:27 PM #

    Micky McCarthy Says: “The problem is, our two tackles are too fat and/or unathletic to get in a three point stance, much less bring their pads low to knock the legs of a rushing defensive end.”

    Pass blocking isn’t done from a 3-point stance. Getting low to knock the legs of a rushing defensive end is poor pass bocking technique.

    You’ve made these fat comments before. Knock that shit off. Those guys may not be all conference tackles but they sure aren’t fat by O-line standards.

    Is this guy a troll?

  6. Wolfpack4ever 10/17/2006 at 1:28 PM #

    packpigskinfan23 Says: “noah~ how many times do WE have to tell YOU, there are ways around that cover2… and concidering Trestmans NFL career, HE should know that by now…”

    This is true but does not address that failure to throw into cover 2 as a complaint is ludicrous.

  7. noah 10/17/2006 at 2:49 PM #

    Holt and Newby aren’t fat. But I don’t think their kindest observers would call them “quick” and they did get beat by the DEs last week.

  8. statered 10/17/2006 at 3:19 PM #

    I thought that the line held its own for the most part against their line, but their LBs killed us. That’s where a lot of the OL athleticism comes in, blocking those second level guys.

  9. RAWFS 10/17/2006 at 3:27 PM #

    State has not scored 25 points or more since EKU and have now gone fifteen straight games in so doing.

    They averaged 18.75 points for in that period, versus 19.31 against. The overall record is 9-7.

    This season, NC State averages 20.17 pojnts through it’s first six games, versus 21.17 against and is 3-3.

    Bottom line is that the offense needs to step it up.

  10. #44 17 24 10/17/2006 at 4:55 PM #

    I would just have Baker and Brown in as many plays together on first and second down as possible, and run them both consistantly. Keep the defences aware that we could go either way and hopefully that would add to amore successful passing game as well.

  11. Micky McCarthy 10/17/2006 at 4:59 PM #

    “…Pass blocking isn’t done from a 3-point stance. Getting low to knock the legs of a rushing defensive end is poor pass bocking technique.”

    And I would argue that a screen pass to the flat isn’t really a pass, but a lateral, therefore requiring traditional run/chip blocking at the ends.

  12. Wolfpack4ever 10/17/2006 at 6:37 PM #

    Micky McCarthy Says: And I would argue that a screen pass to the flat isn’t really a pass, but a lateral, therefore requiring traditional run/chip blocking at the ends.

    Yes, a screen pass is the equivilent of a run but it is set up by creating hte illusion of a down field pass. Not smart using run blocking when you are creating the illusion of a pass.

  13. Woof Wolf 10/17/2006 at 7:03 PM #

    Why would anyone believe we were going to throw downfield? 🙂

  14. Wolfpack4ever 10/17/2006 at 8:20 PM #

    Good question, WW. 😉 I’ve read enough of your posts to know you aren’t suggesting run-blocking on a screen pass. That and the Smiley helped this old fart not get excited when I read your post. I almost said “Anybody who watched us on national TV against FSU.”

    One of the passes that Evans completed down the middle looked like he had overthrown Ant when Dunlap came out of nowhere to complete a great play. It was a pure timing thing where Evans threw to a spot and the receiver arrived “on the spot” to make the catch.

    I have to believe that Trestman, Evans and the receivers are playing catch up on the timing patterns. Throwing those before DE and his receivers are ready is a set-up for failure.

  15. BorntoHowl 10/17/2006 at 8:29 PM #

    We will never be an upper tier football team without a mantra that we came to play football, catch us if you can. We play every game as the underdog, and are so careful to minimize our chance for turnovers that the game can’t be fun for the players to play.

    Before DE, I can understand this play calling, but WHY continue to increase probability for loss by at least 50% when you have a QB that has the ability to read defenses and execute plays. I almost crapped in my pants when Trestman called the pass play on BC when we had the lead. That’s football. I truly thought NC State had turned the corner. But alas, then came Wake, and back in our hole. You can talk all you want about cover 2 defense. If Trestman can’t beat that with his eyes shut, then he should get out of coaching. So we end up with one more interception a game, we also get 2-3 more TD’s.

    When we get a lead, our plays are as predictable as the next sunrise. It’s one thing to have to play this kind of game because of a lack of personnel to execute. But folks, that ain’t the problem right now. It’s going to really, really suck when we lose to EweNC this year because the coaches refuse to let the team play anywhere close to their potential.

    Each game is a different situation, but at

  16. Woof Wolf 10/17/2006 at 9:46 PM #

    ^I’ve said this one other time tonight, “AMEN, AMEN.”

  17. lazerbrett 10/17/2006 at 11:47 PM #

    “Really? Tell me what they are. Tell me how you throw into double coverage with success.�

    The Cover 2 defense is not some magical defense that automatically prevents the deep pass and provides double coverage. In the cover 2 you have two safeties responsible for the deep halves of the field and the corners and linebackers play 5 underneath zones.

    The way you attack this defense is to stretch the safeties thin in the deep halves. If you send four receivers vertically down the field then obviously the two safeties can NOT cover all of them. So what happens? Well the defenders should read the routes and covert to man-to-man and follow the receiver down field to help the safeties. The vulnerability of cover two is that you ONLY have two deep defenders. You have to have a good pass rush in the cover 2 or the QB will kill you.

    The deep pass CAN work in the Cover 2.

  18. class of 74 10/18/2006 at 6:21 AM #

    ^You sir are correct. If a defense doesn’t apply pressure on the QB no secondary coverage scheme will work. Man to man, zone it doesn’t matter, it all begins with the line play. The line play gives you the luxury of running deep and complex patterns and ultimately a successful offense.

  19. noah 10/18/2006 at 9:40 AM #

    Send four guys deep and you don’t have any check-down routes. The cover-2 is reliant on a good pass rush from your front four so the intermediate and deep routes don’t have time to develop. A good pass rush. Remember when we talked about the DEs beating Holt and Newby around the edge so they could bat down those swing passes? That kinda thing.

    But…none of this matters. This isn’t about Marc Trestman or the playcalling. This is about foothall fans wanking because simply saying, “It sucks that we lost” isn’t enough. There HAS to be a scapegoat. It obviously has to be that some coach sucks and has to be fired.

    Please ignore the inconvenient fact that the same retarded coaches that suck today will be hailed as geniuses next week. Reason and logic have no place here.

    So we get comments like, “You can talk all you want about cover 2 defense. If Trestman can’t beat that with his eyes shut, then he should get out of coaching. So we end up with one more interception a game, we also get 2-3 more TD’s.”

    Man, that’s fucking BRILLIANT. Why didn’t we punt more on first down? Yeah, we’d lose possession, but our guys are SO good at forcing fumbles on punt coverage that we’d score a couple of hundred points a game! It’s so easy! Why don’t we line up backwards more? The defense will be so confused, Toney Baker will rush for a couple of hundred yards a game! It’s so easy! Why don’t we run Triple-z-red-out like I do on Madden ’06? That beats the cover-2. Life’s a video game, right?

  20. class of 74 10/18/2006 at 10:01 AM #

    ^No I think this stems from the fans perception we have talent that finds a way to lose games to, again perceived, lesser talented teams. So there must be a fault placed somewhere. Against BC and FSU, we played up to the talent level in the average fans mind. The other games we did not play to our talent level. Whether it’s the coaches or players it’s still the same: team inconsistency.

    Coach Grobe runs a good scheme and he has stamped his discipline on those players with his system. They are a tough bunch to beat regardless of the talent level which leads many to say: “Grobe does more with less than anyone in the ACC.”

  21. Wolfpack4ever 10/20/2006 at 3:41 PM #

    BorntoHowl Says: “It’s going to really, really suck when we lose to EweNC this year because the coaches refuse to let the team play anywhere close to their potential.”

    Did you overhear 2 coaches talking and one say to the other, “I refuse to let the team play anywhere close to its potential especially against EweNC.” Get a grip, BorntoHowl.

  22. redfred2 10/24/2006 at 12:02 AM #

    Did you overhear 2 coaches talking and one say to the other, “I refuse to let the team play anywhere close to its potential especially against EweNC.� Get a grip, BorntoHowl.

    Did you ever anyone say I’m going to go out and have a head on collision, but only against a Peugeot Sedan? It’s possible at keg party or two, but I don’t remember ever hearing anyone specifically saying those particular words. But people do have head ons with Peugeots, especially in in Europe. Probably not intentionally either though, and probably with less frequency than we get beat by Tar Heels, but it happens, none the less.

    Ever watch gladiator movies?

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