Elevated (noah) Comments

'06 Football General125

You will have to forgive us for taking a day off after Saturday’s debacle. We just needed a break.

To start off this Monday we are going to elevate some comments from Saturday’s blog entry that we thought were really good and deserved special attention.

noah always delivers with accurate and astute insight. On Saturday he did a super job ofkeeping his head and trying to paint (what I think) are pretty accurate pictures of things for frustrated fans. He attributed his demeanor/perspective to the following:

I think the difference between my reaction and the reaction of others is that I expected us to be a pretty terrible team this year. Apparently,there were a lot of people thinking we’d nine games.

We’re a bad team. It happens. FSU damn near lost to Troy last night. Maryland and UVA are supposed to be led by brilliant coaches and they apparently suck this year too.

If you think changing coaches is going to fix this shit…you’re in for a rude awakening.

So, today we are going to elevate some of noah’s comments from Saturday’s thread to this entry so that it can serve as somewhat of a ‘guest column’.

I hope that we can encourage noah to keep visiting and sharing his thoughts. They are much appreciated:

My prediction is that we’ll win about three games this year. I think my pre-season prediction was four wins.

My post-season prediction is that we fire Chuck Amato, make all kinds of noise about hiring a top-notch, national-champion coach….end up hiring some poor, ill-prepared slob who wins about three games over the next five years and then 99 percent of the WPC stands around thinking, “Wha happened??� and saying, “I never wanted to fire Amato!�

The problem isn’t coaching. The problem is that we’ve gone about 3-for-80 in recruiting quality offensive linemen. To date, we’ve landed quality OL in Leroy Harris, Curtis Crouch aaaaand….uhh…well, I’m sure one of the guys we signed in the last two years will probably be halfway decent.

But we’ve whiffed on everyone else. We’ve been getting commitments from players who ought to be lining up for ECU and Marshall and W. Kentucky State and have no business trying to block for ACC backs.

Problem #2 — we signed two top 20 recruits at quarterback to replace Philip Rivers…it just happened that they were both horribly overrated. I watched Dook and Wake today — neither Stone or Davis would start for those two teams (whoever thought we’d trail both Dook and Wake at the quarterback position??).

It’s going to take a couple of years. I hope we give Amato the time to do it.

I have no doubt that we won’t…

In response to a question, “how are we not better than Akron” noah stated:

Because:

(1) The history of NC State is a pretty sorry one;
(2) The line between being pretty good and being pretty bad is a thin one;
(3) The failures that we’ve had in recruiting have been total losses and they’ve been at absolutely critical spots; and,
(4) Because even the best programs have bad years…Penn State, Tennessee, Notre Dame….

Sometimes the answer is to fire the coach…sometimes it’s not.

I’d just caution everyone that wants a new coach to recall the difficulty we had in hiring a coach for our basketball program…a program with two national titles and 10 league titles in the greatest basketball conference ever.

In football, we’ve won 10 games or more a grand total of ONE time. We would have just fired the guy who got us that double-digit win total. We have not won a league title since 1979.

In further response to “no NC State coach should lose to Akron”:

Dick Sheridan lost to ETSU at home. Should we have fired him? He also lost to awful Louisville and Va. Tech teams in years when he had great teams.

MOC lost to Baylor (the week after we beat #1 FSU)….and Baylor didn’t win another game all year.

Monte Kiffin only beat Richmond by six one year and got smacked around by Dook more than once.

Tom Reed lost to Furman.

Bo Rein lost to Furman and ECU when they were in the Southern Conference.

Earle Edwards lost to Richmond in 1970.

Al Michaels lost to Kent State.

Unless your name is Lou Holtz, you have plenty of bad losses on your resume if you’ve ever coached at NC State.

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'06 Football General

125 Responses to Elevated (noah) Comments

  1. packpigskinfan23 09/11/2006 at 5:42 PM #

    what is it that you guys have seen in Burke and Evans that makes you think they can do more then Stone? I have no doubts that they are decent QB’s… but give Stone some credit. He did win the starting job. he has shown some promise. they have all been working under the same talentless Off Coord. Cash in him for someone with a broader playbook and our team improves AT LEAST 20% I agree completly with what MIKE has said above… their has GOT to be something wrong with the teacher. that has been the MAIN thing bringing this team down-Since 2003 when we lost not only a great QB, but also the Best Off Coord in college football. Ditch Trestman, get someone who REALLY teaches the QB’s and next year we win 8-9 games. its that simple.

  2. Woof Wolf 09/11/2006 at 5:48 PM #

    The only area where Cowher may need some help might be recruiting. I don’t think he would have the network to be real successful at first, But while we are dreaming, maybe we can get rid of LF and let Chuck be AD and help with recruiting.

  3. GAWolf 09/11/2006 at 5:52 PM #

    After reading every single post above, I have decided that although everyone points out different things for why we lost that game there are clearly many things that we just fail to do well on a regular basis.

    Can anyone tell me what our boys do in practice all day? From the looks of things this is a list of things we don’t do well on a regular basis against average to below-average competition:

    1) Tackle
    2) Block
    3) Throw
    4) Catch
    5) Hike
    6) Hold onto the ball
    7) Wear our helmets when we’re supposed to
    8) Play “prevent” defense
    9) Execute an offense
    10) Make big plays

    I don’t know about you guys, but if I were a coach and someone told me to set out a list of ten things my team needed to do to be successful, this list would probably be what I produced.

    Please, please, please tell me what we do over on those fancy new practice fields all year long.

    I have a solution for Andre Brown’s penalty, as I agree it was a huge factor in why we lost that game. My boys would wear their helmets on the plane. They could sleep with them off, but in their beds with them. Come game day, they’re on from kickoff to game’s end. Hurt, dressed, playing, sitting… wear the damn helmet.

    These kids are kids. But I’ve seen Midgett League players who know when to wear their helmets and when to stay off the field.

  4. Dan 09/11/2006 at 5:54 PM #

    Horrible loss.

    But…. (ug)

    No Luke Lathan. No A.J. Davis. The biggie: No Andre Brown.

    As far as Chuck goes, he gets a pass from me this year. Next year he needs 7-5 though. Either that or at least a minimum of 5 wins plus some a huge haul of blue chippers in the ’07 and ’08 class. He’s got to get something moving in a positive direction soon. And, oh yeah, three losses two UNC and ECU would be hard to forgive.

    I tend to not try to judge QB/OC’s until they get a couple years with their boy at QB. Plus, Chuck not recruiting OL for a couple years is still costing us. Too many guys in the backfield when the runner gets the ball. Andre makes that first guy miss 99% of the time. Not so with Baker.

  5. GAWolf 09/11/2006 at 5:55 PM #

    Not to mention… the guy who got the penalty hadn’t contributed to a play since the first quarter. If you can’t play, what justifies you jumping around like a mad man on, much less over, the sidelines?

  6. Dan 09/11/2006 at 6:00 PM #

    The #1 priority for NC State fans right now should be to make sure that Lee Fowler is not the man to hire either Chuck or Sid’s replacement 15 years (

  7. packpigskinfan23 09/11/2006 at 6:06 PM #

    We really do need to do something about Fowler. it obsurd that they have let him go on like this for as long as they have….

    woof wolf~ who wouldnt want to play for Bill Cowher?!?!?! I think he would be just fine at recruiting.

  8. Wolfpack4ever 09/11/2006 at 6:28 PM #

    redfred2 Says:

    BUT there has to be some indication that the players can play above and beyond their skills capacities when necessary.

    Do you mean like beating FSU last 3 time out of 6 or beating VT at home 2 years ago or beating favored ND in the Gator bowl or…?

  9. Wolfpack4ever 09/11/2006 at 6:36 PM #

    PAPacker Says:

    I cannot understand why Stone continues to start given his inability to make reads, his inability to complete fairly easy throws, (i.e., underthrowing Bowens and Hill in the flat with defenders fairly far off them),

    Ugh, were you there for the 4th quarter? That’s why a junior with experience and a good arm is starting over a QB with a practice record of INTs and a freshman just out of HS.

    and: his inability to complete fairly easy throws, (i.e., underthrowing Bowens and Hill in the flat with defenders fairly far off them),

    Without knowing if the receivers failed to comeback, judging Stone’s throws here is ludicrous. Those balls should IMO be thrown low to keep DBs off them and from intercepting them.

  10. Wolfpack4ever 09/11/2006 at 6:49 PM #

    GAWolf Says:

    Notre Dame sure pulled the trigger and got railed for it… do we have the guts to do the same if not adjustments are made and we get whipped by Southern Miss?

    Now that’s funny!! Oh yeah. We have tons of coaches who have been hoping all their lives to have a chance to coach at NC State. May be Bill Billichek or whatever his name is would be willing to leave the Patriots and come here. LOL We sure don’t want John Fox. He lost Sunday to the freakin Atlanta Falcons, for gods sake.

  11. Wolfpack4ever 09/11/2006 at 6:57 PM #

    packpigskinfan23 Says:

    but horrible play call. all too predictable from our OffCoord.

    May be predictable to you, but in my wildest dreams I did not see an option coming. A QB sneak behind Crouch and Harris would have been my “predictable” call.

  12. PAPacker 09/11/2006 at 7:14 PM #

    Wolfpack4ever, yes I was there for the whole game. Just to be clear, yes, I absolutely would take a very talented freshman with no game experience, seems we tried that about six years ago, turned out ok I think. I would even take Evans at this point. “A junior with experience and a good arm?” What game were you watching? Stone could not complete simple out passes to Hill and Bowens. Both passes were thrown into the turf short of them. We’re talking about throwing a football about 20 yards in the air on a diagonal. Stone missed an obvious read with John Dunlap open 15 yards closer than Blackmun who was double covered on the interception. A good arm? If a good arm means someone who can actually complete passes, then Stone does not have a good arm. There are hundreds of high school kids who can heave a football long. Stone made one great shovel pass but the completions on the 4th quarter drives were mostly very simplified, send Hill out 10 yards, turn him around, lob the ball to him. I could do that.

  13. Wolfpack4ever 09/11/2006 at 7:16 PM #

    “Ditch Trestman, get someone who REALLY teaches the QB’s and next year we win 8-9 games. its that simple.”

    And who would that be? MOC? Which great OC is panting to come to NCSU? What HAVE you been smoking?

  14. Wolfpack4ever 09/11/2006 at 7:22 PM #

    “Would you at least agree with me that Amato’s ego, in the form of grossly hyped expectations, is clearly writing checks his body (the product) can’t cash?”

    Would you prefer public bad-mouthing his team and players? Crediting Amato’s ego is an anti-Amato self-serving interpretation.. I like that he sets the bar high> The BSers who moan about having an 0-11 team and then win 10 games every year are also ego driven coaches — it just the back of the hand instead of the front.

  15. Wolfpack4ever 09/11/2006 at 7:47 PM #

    GAWolf Says:

    the guy who got the penalty hadn’t contributed to a play since the first quarter. If you can’t play, what justifies you jumping around like a mad man on, much less over, the sidelines?

    You really don’t understand football, do you?

  16. brown pelican 09/11/2006 at 7:57 PM #

    modern offense is quarterback driven at the collegiate level—hence we will struggle until that position is solidified—evans is worth a shot—if he’s a bust then we have burke and beck in the wings—-the mark of coach amato’s tenure will be whether or not he can eventually recruit and keep a staff of quality assistants—this has been the hallmark of quality programs—va tech with beamer—fsu with bowden (pre Richt and Amato promotions)—west va with rodriguez—and—coach sheridan in the late 80’s—early 90’s—his ability here will ultimately determine his success on the field

  17. Wolfpack4ever 09/11/2006 at 9:19 PM #

    PAPacker Says:

    I absolutely would take a very talented freshman with no game experience, seems we tried that about six years ago, turned out ok I think.

    If you are talking about Philip Rivers, I’d like to remind you that Philip came to State for the spring term and participated in Spring Practice. He WON the job in competion with Davis and Stone. While you “would even take Evans at this point” none of the coaches who we would bring in to replace Chuck would hand over the starting job to someone who had not won it after the 1st half of the 1st game. (That’s when you first started calling for Stone’s head wasn’t it?)

    Handing starting jobs over to players who do win them is unwise for a lot of reasons. Only the “lunatic” fringe of the coaching profession puts players in on a whim. Every sport I ever participated in as a player and /or coach, you won your starting job and PLAYING TIME in practice, not in prime time. Chuck and Tress may be fucked up in a lot of areas but they are right on this one.

    I was watching Stone complete about 8 in a row including a couple of lobs to Hill. Also a strike to someone on a slant route. Let’s crucify Stone on one hand for waiting to throw and on the other for freshman receivers failing to run good routes on timing paterns such as the comeback routes you referenced above. Old Jay would have put those balls right on the money — for 6 the other way.

    “Stone missed an obvious read with John Dunlap open 15 yards closer than Blackmun who was double covered on the interception.” Obvious to whom? Fans in the stands who look after a ball is thrown to see who is open. (I apologize if you have access to game film and broke it down to see Dunlop open when Stone threw the ball.)

    “I could do that.” Sure you could. You may have done that in the past — with 300 pound linemen pushing your O-line back in your face. You probably have an NFL resume to back you up.

    PAPacker, we are all frustrated but your analysis is somewhat too unanalytical to take you too seriously.

  18. Glen Sudhop54 09/11/2006 at 9:32 PM #

    The 15 yard celebration penalty may not have doomed us as all the papers seem to imply–we may have lost anyway.

    My question is this

    What exactly were they celebrating?? Excuse me, but scoring a late TD to take a narrow lead at home against somebody called the Zips is NOTHING to celebrate! Sure, score a late TD to take a lead against somebody called Buckeyes, Irish, Longhorns, Hurricanes, Seminoles etc and a celebration penalty is possibly understandable. But the Akron Zips?? Holy Molely!!

    There is nothing wrong with enthusiasm but why do they have go so nutso over just scoring a TD? Are they so shocked that they actually scored? Our hip-hop ghetto mentality keeps getting worse every year. I am not embarrassed by the losses, their behavior under CA is what is embarrassing.

  19. redfred2 09/11/2006 at 9:36 PM #

    Glen

    It’s like “pay day at the liquor store” version 2006.

  20. Wolfpack4ever 09/11/2006 at 9:43 PM #

    Why don’t you two just use the “N” word? I’m out of here.

  21. packpigskinfan23 09/11/2006 at 10:22 PM #

    Wolfpack4ever~ your just on a nice little angst ridden rampage on everyone now arent you… why dont you just pick apart EVERYONE on the boards comments. I already told you what I thought to be predictable on the 4th down… the QB draw… then the option(a poorly executed one at that)… those are THE 2 most predictable play calls in that situation. I’m not really upset with that play, I am upset with the horrible play calling our offensive coordinator has had for the past 2 years. it sucks. I’m sorry you may not agree, but we have about 6 plays in our book and I DO blame the Mark Trestman for that. who else is knocking on our doors? nobody. But I am sure there is someone out there who has a passion for good college football and would strive to make ALL of our QB’s better. I still say get rid of the guy. he has proved NOTHING. he has not shown me anything at all.

  22. Wulfpack 09/11/2006 at 10:34 PM #

    Whoa now there, 4ever boy, take a deep breath.

    “What exactly were they celebrating?? Excuse me, but scoring a late TD to take a narrow lead at home against somebody called the Zips is NOTHING to celebrate!”

    Exactly. It all goes to the coaching staff. There’s over a minute on the clock, game isn’t nearly over. Of course our guys can’t understand that. Of course they have to act like they’ve never been there before. I’m all for excitement, hell this is college football, but channel it in the right direction. Don’t use it against your team. Something tells either Chuck isn’t giving the message, or he isn’t being heard. It’s about respect. It’s about self-discipline. It’s about having a little class and knowing the situation. Win it on the last snap, sure have it. A minute on the freaking clock…

    Some coaches can teach and some can’t. It’s the same shit over and over again.

  23. Glen Sudhop54 09/11/2006 at 10:34 PM #

    ^ If you insist, 4ever….

    We are Not well coached, Never will be under CA. No big bowl. Wait till Next year….. any others?

  24. redfred2 09/11/2006 at 10:53 PM #

    ^Wolfpack4ever- We’re talking about the loose and restricted mannerisms of an ENTIRE FOOTBALL TEAM that is unwarranted and should not be tolerated by a head coach at any time on the football field.

    Your terminology is not in play, AT ALL.

  25. GAWolf 09/11/2006 at 11:10 PM #

    I hate to burst 4ever’s bubble and say something that might make someone think I know some… I mean anything about football, but I’m sitting here watching Philip’s first start as a pro. He’s had two completions, both of which were swing passes. Both were perfectly thrown and for over ten yards. Why do they work for Rivers? He looks the linebackers off. If they aren’t safety valve receivers, Philip makes it at least seem like the guy in the flats is a last option. The post-Rivers Pack calls them like they’re a an off tackle dive or a quarterback draw. As soon as our last two QB’s take their second step of the drop they’re looking for the flat. The LB’s and ends see this, react and what we get is a back or TE catching a ball waiting to get creamed. Even on two of Stone’s touchdown passes (Blackmon and Eugene) he did this. We’re just lucky to have guys that can sometimes make the first guy miss. I don’t like the “whoa is us we don’t have Rivers anymore talk” and that’s not my point. Rather, Rivers best attribute is that he perfected the swing pass as an alternative to a running game. His success might ultimately be the end of this staff. Rivers is gone. Our staff needs to recognize that more than the fans.

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