Elevated (noah) Comments

'06 Football General125

You will have to forgive us for taking a day off after Saturday’s debacle. We just needed a break.

To start off this Monday we are going to elevate some comments from Saturday’s blog entry that we thought were really good and deserved special attention.

noah always delivers with accurate and astute insight. On Saturday he did a super job ofkeeping his head and trying to paint (what I think) are pretty accurate pictures of things for frustrated fans. He attributed his demeanor/perspective to the following:

I think the difference between my reaction and the reaction of others is that I expected us to be a pretty terrible team this year. Apparently,there were a lot of people thinking we’d nine games.

We’re a bad team. It happens. FSU damn near lost to Troy last night. Maryland and UVA are supposed to be led by brilliant coaches and they apparently suck this year too.

If you think changing coaches is going to fix this shit…you’re in for a rude awakening.

So, today we are going to elevate some of noah’s comments from Saturday’s thread to this entry so that it can serve as somewhat of a ‘guest column’.

I hope that we can encourage noah to keep visiting and sharing his thoughts. They are much appreciated:

My prediction is that we’ll win about three games this year. I think my pre-season prediction was four wins.

My post-season prediction is that we fire Chuck Amato, make all kinds of noise about hiring a top-notch, national-champion coach….end up hiring some poor, ill-prepared slob who wins about three games over the next five years and then 99 percent of the WPC stands around thinking, “Wha happened??� and saying, “I never wanted to fire Amato!�

The problem isn’t coaching. The problem is that we’ve gone about 3-for-80 in recruiting quality offensive linemen. To date, we’ve landed quality OL in Leroy Harris, Curtis Crouch aaaaand….uhh…well, I’m sure one of the guys we signed in the last two years will probably be halfway decent.

But we’ve whiffed on everyone else. We’ve been getting commitments from players who ought to be lining up for ECU and Marshall and W. Kentucky State and have no business trying to block for ACC backs.

Problem #2 — we signed two top 20 recruits at quarterback to replace Philip Rivers…it just happened that they were both horribly overrated. I watched Dook and Wake today — neither Stone or Davis would start for those two teams (whoever thought we’d trail both Dook and Wake at the quarterback position??).

It’s going to take a couple of years. I hope we give Amato the time to do it.

I have no doubt that we won’t…

In response to a question, “how are we not better than Akron” noah stated:

Because:

(1) The history of NC State is a pretty sorry one;
(2) The line between being pretty good and being pretty bad is a thin one;
(3) The failures that we’ve had in recruiting have been total losses and they’ve been at absolutely critical spots; and,
(4) Because even the best programs have bad years…Penn State, Tennessee, Notre Dame….

Sometimes the answer is to fire the coach…sometimes it’s not.

I’d just caution everyone that wants a new coach to recall the difficulty we had in hiring a coach for our basketball program…a program with two national titles and 10 league titles in the greatest basketball conference ever.

In football, we’ve won 10 games or more a grand total of ONE time. We would have just fired the guy who got us that double-digit win total. We have not won a league title since 1979.

In further response to “no NC State coach should lose to Akron”:

Dick Sheridan lost to ETSU at home. Should we have fired him? He also lost to awful Louisville and Va. Tech teams in years when he had great teams.

MOC lost to Baylor (the week after we beat #1 FSU)….and Baylor didn’t win another game all year.

Monte Kiffin only beat Richmond by six one year and got smacked around by Dook more than once.

Tom Reed lost to Furman.

Bo Rein lost to Furman and ECU when they were in the Southern Conference.

Earle Edwards lost to Richmond in 1970.

Al Michaels lost to Kent State.

Unless your name is Lou Holtz, you have plenty of bad losses on your resume if you’ve ever coached at NC State.

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'06 Football General

125 Responses to Elevated (noah) Comments

  1. choppack1 09/11/2006 at 2:10 PM #

    So far this year, it’s 20.0 per game.

  2. packbackr04 09/11/2006 at 2:17 PM #

    Chopack ^^^ way up post^sorry i have been trying to get some “work” done and have been away for a while.

    “Actually – since we were only up 3 – I didn’t have a problem going for it. We make the first down – and then punch it in – game over – period. If we score, we’re only up 13-7 – and a TD still beats us. The argument for kicking the FG would have a lot more weight if we had held them to a FG. We didn’t – they scored 13 points on us in their 3 possessions. ”

    I understand the logic but it was a low scoring game up until then, and i just feel like that failed attempt really took the wind out of our sails and totally pumped up the Zips. We had all the momentum going into that call, if we put 3 more up, even though we only go up 6 pts, really has to help our momentum and hurt theirs. I think we are both in agreeance that it was a poor call just trying to get your perspective as to why you would not have gone for it.

  3. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 09/11/2006 at 2:24 PM #

    Anyone blaming that loss on Stone obviously didn’t watch the same game I did. He stepped up when needed and got the ball in the end zone twice when he had to. He can’t take any of the blame for that loss where as just about everyone else can. That damned unsportsman like penalty after State’s final TD was just stupid. Looked to the guy behind me and said that’s going to lose the game. Sure nuff Daraney’s kick doesn’t go to the end zone setting up the final drive. Please stop blaming Stone when he had a fine game.

  4. Mike 09/11/2006 at 2:32 PM #

    The call to go for it was the right call. Again, a field goal puts us up 6, still a one possession game. The play was horrible, as usual, and frankly I think falls into the O coaches hands. Maybe Stone should have pitched, but that is something you work on in practice.

    As for Chuck, firing Chuck solves nothing and moves us backwards. The D has been stout, and will continue to be as long as CTC is there. We just need to find an OC that can get creative and run more than 4 plays. Funny thing is I will sit there and call out the next play before we run it. The people in the stands seem amazed I can do that. If I can do that watching, what do you think opposing coaches who study film, track down/distance with computers will do? They know what we are going to run.

    Keep Chuck as a recruiter, defensive coach, and yes head coach. Just get him a real OC who can develop talent, and utilize personnel. For those that have slammed Stone (and admittedly I have been somewhat critical), Stone was a top ranked HS QB. He either was overrated or has not developed as he should. He puts in the hours and effort, but a teacher not doing his job is not much help. If you learn to do something wrong…….it’s not going to get better.

    Letting Chuck go will do nothing but derail the train. Chuck is good for the university and the football team, and I am sure he is a good football coach. The last few years I have seen coaching blunders on time management, play calling, and various other miscues that a good OC should be able to handle.

  5. packbackr04 09/11/2006 at 2:38 PM #

    tcthdi^^ i cant speak for everyone else but i am not saying stone lost the game for us, but he sure as heck didnt win it for us either. If you watched the same game i did he threw more than a few easy passes in the dirt, and in my post at the top of this entry i speak to his credit, stating that there were several dropped passes that should have been caught.

    I agree with you that he didnt cause us to lose the game, it is a team sport. But i have to think that we have another player on the squad that gives us a better chance to win games. If you have a quarterback who you put in a game, and say “well, he isnt going to lose the game for us.” then you have the wrong metality. You have to be thinking “this guy gives us the best shot of winning and will put us in more positions to win football games than any of our other guys” And obviously Chuck and Co. think Stone is that guy. It makes me think of the bears QB situation last year, With Orton or Olsen whatever his last name is. He never made any mistakes, neverhad a lot of turnovers, but he never made the big plays or put the Bears to be in superbowl contention which is where they could have been last year with their team…

  6. packbackr04 09/11/2006 at 2:43 PM #

    mike & chop^ I see what yall are saying about it only putting us up 6 pts, but were you in C-F? did you hear what happened? it was like all of our momentum was gone! we were totally demoralized i think, and it did nothing but pump up the zips. I felt at that time in the game , we were in complete control, and when we gave them the ball without putting up pts we ultimatley gave them the game.

  7. duckmanjw 09/11/2006 at 2:46 PM #

    When are all of you going to quit basing everything we do on Rivers?

    He is gone!! He was arguably the best QB to come through State in 100 years.

    NCSU is not So Cal, we are and have not ever been a QB school, we lucked into a jewel with Rivers.

    We were mediocre before him and we are the same after him. Put whatever coach you want at the helm and it doesn’t change.

    The Akron loss sucks but its one game. We beat ASU and all you did was complain about that for a week leading up to this loss. Now all you’re gonna do is complain for the whole week.

    Either support the team or don’t, its pretty simple! I guess making the university into a laughing stock of the sports world beating down your team and coaches is a proud accomplish in some of your eyes, but it should be an embarassment!!!

  8. GoldenChain 09/11/2006 at 2:57 PM #

    We sure have a beautiful stadium, someone good will want to come here (wait a minute, we have a beautiful hoops arena too…….).

  9. Sam92 09/11/2006 at 2:59 PM #

    I see a lot of support for Chuck Amato, and I have to respect people’s opinions on that (even though I think he’s not right for us).

    What I disagree with is re-characterizing criticism of Coach Amato as somehow denigrating the players, the team or the university. It’s not.

    Whether Coach Amato is the right coach for N.C. State has a lot to do with expectations, and everyone’s entitled to their own opinion on that.

    For my part, I think we’ve set the stage (i.e., the facilities) for N.C. State to compete for division and conferences titles, but it’s clear to me that Chuck can’t take us there (based on his win/loss records and their trend).

    Some people think he can — I think they are mistaken but entitled to their opinion.

    Some people feel that even if he can’t, he’s still doing well enough to be kept on — that’s a difference in expectations.

    In short, it’s Herb Sendek all over again. There’s a lot you can say in favor of Chuck Amato, but it comes down to whether he can take us where we want to go. For my part, he can’t, so we should let him go and search for someone who can.

    As a footnote, I have no confidence in Lee Fowler’s ability to find that person, but it’s not a perfect world.

  10. duckmanjw 09/11/2006 at 3:07 PM #

    I think everyone would argue in favor of Chancellor Oblinger giving Lee the boot!!!

    I’ll chip in for his buy out.

  11. choppack1 09/11/2006 at 3:14 PM #

    “I understand the logic but it was a low scoring game up until then, and i just feel like that failed attempt really took the wind out of our sails and totally pumped up the Zips. We had all the momentum going into that call, if we put 3 more up, even though we only go up 6 pts, really has to help our momentum and hurt theirs. ”

    I see your point – but it would be stronger if the zips didn’t score TDs on us TWICE. It would also be stronger if we never scored again. If this was the 1st, 2nd or 3rd quarter, I would agree w/ you 100%. However, we get a first down – we win the game. We kick the FG – and a TD and extra point still BEATS us. I think there was a moral victory for Akron either way – I mean, if you didn’t expect them to go 80 yards, you surely couldn’t have expected them to go 96.

  12. class of 74 09/11/2006 at 3:18 PM #

    We will see Osama receive the B’nai Birith award before we see this administration cut Amato loose. If Sendek was untouchable then it stands to reason Chuck will retire as head coach here. But LSUTigerFan is spot on with his assessment of our situation. The trendline is negative and trends have their own inertia.

  13. GoZips 09/11/2006 at 3:52 PM #

    As a Zips fan I find that a lot of you are being far too hard on coach Amato and your team. NCST is a pretty decent team with quality, talented players. You did NOT lose to some schlock, third rate opponent. You lost to a quality opponent that has been coming like a freight train the past couple of years. Akron has had excellent recruiting classes under coach Brookhart. They have steadily improved their skill set and quality of athlete. What was said about Akron never quitting needed to be pounded into the NCST kids heads before the game.

    NCST is going to have a decent although not a great year. A bowl bid is quite possible. You certainly have the tools to beat most of your remaining opponents. The tools were there to beat Akron. Akron had the
    tools to beat NCST and they did. The game stats bear this out.

    Given the excessive false holding calls on Akron there is little to whine about regarding the officiating. Not to mention the break you all received from your rather slanted ACC officiating crew on the possible
    over the line of scrimmage play. The game films clearly show that Stone was across the line of scrimmage. At this point: so what?

    Kennedy was in the end zone before his elbow touched the ground.

  14. BoKnowsNCS71 09/11/2006 at 4:02 PM #

    Defense wins games. Earle Edwards proved that in 1967 when State went unbeaten until the last 2 games. It was ranked in the top 5 at that time. Pretty good for an average team and average quarterback — Jim Donnan.

    Rivers was a fluke. State has only had 3 NFL QBs in its history. Roman Gabriel, Erik Kramer, and Phillip Rivers. Will Justin Burke or Harrison Beck be of that caliber? If so, then we’ll be in much better shape (with Amato) in the next two years.

    People need to be patient. It’s early in the season. THere’s 10 more games to play. Sure the outlook isn’t great this year but we need to be thinking long term here. Beamer didn’t do it over night. It takes time and fans that support their school.

    Long term invesments pay off better than switching stocks with every up and down in the market. Same concept here.

  15. choppack1 09/11/2006 at 4:08 PM #

    “As a Zips fan I find that a lot of you are being far too hard on coach Amato and your team. NCST is a pretty decent team with quality, talented players. You did NOT lose to some schlock, third rate opponent. You lost to a quality opponent that has been coming like a freight train the past couple of years. Akron has had excellent recruiting classes under coach Brookhart. They have steadily improved their skill set and quality of athlete. What was said about Akron never quitting needed to be pounded into the NCST kids heads before the game.”

    I understand you guys are an excellent MAC team, but the Zips are a MAC team. If we had lost to a major from a BCS conference, we probably wouldn’t be as hard on Amato. We lost to team that has similar talent to Duke, Wake Forest or Vanderbuilt. You guys may very well end up being a Top 25 team, but it is solely based upon your coaching. You were the better team Saturday.

    I think we took Akron seriously – I don’t think we were counting on the TO fest or our defense collapsing in the fourth quarter. We also weren’t counting on losing Andre Brown.

    “Given the excessive false holding calls on Akron there is little to whine about regarding the officiating.”

    Uhh, there could have been more. You must go to the school of thought that if you do it every time, it doesn’t count. I saw the refs miss more holding calls than they called.

  16. choppack1 09/11/2006 at 4:10 PM #

    “Kennedy was in the end zone before his elbow touched the ground.”

    I’d love to see a photo that proves that. (If you can link the next frame to the picture in the other thread, that would be great.)

  17. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 09/11/2006 at 4:28 PM #

    “NCSU is not So Cal, we are and have not ever been a QB school, we lucked into a jewel with Rivers.”

    Which doesn’t make sense to me because we have put more than our share of great receivers in the NFL.

    Stone got us the TD pass to win the game with just over a minute left. He didn’t touch the ball again. So he did win the game for us only for it to be lost unsportsman like after the score.

    At least we can still win the ACC Championship. Akron isn’t the worst team in the country and we stopped them for the most part until mental breakdowns at the end. The offense looked a little better, we lost Brown in the first half. Even after Stone’s Int we had pushed them back inside the 5 until some penalty that I think went for 25 yards. Is it correct that the penalty was marked from the orginal line?

  18. redfred2 09/11/2006 at 4:31 PM #

    ^Great Dane Guy

    “I just don’t get why Evans doesn’t a least get a series in the first half. Just see how he does. Can he really be so much worse? The staff just seems to wear blinders.”

    I think you’re right.

    Must be the next thing on the horizon for football also. A majority of NCSU administrators and lot of the basketball fans have been wearing them for years already.

  19. Astral Rain 09/11/2006 at 4:46 PM #

    I say Amato gets one more chance if this year sucks. Change in football is worse then change in basketball. If we have a good AD, I’d be more willing to pull the trigger- but since the AD is clearly the biggest problem- I’d rather keep Amato around.

    Some of this faith I still have comes from the fact I believe the next QB will be better then Stone. If he isn’t, then Amato definitely needs to go- you can’t win if you can’t develop even a mediocre QB.

  20. duckmanjw 09/11/2006 at 4:52 PM #

    “Which doesn’t make sense to me because we have put more than our share of great receivers in the NFL.”

    It doesn’t take a star QB to make a superstar wide receiver. They make their name in YACs. It takes getting them the ball.

    Just look down the road in Charlotte for a fine example: Jake Delhomme is bordering on horrible, but when Steve Smith is on the field, Delhomme is a pro bowler!!!

  21. johnny 09/11/2006 at 4:56 PM #

    “The problem isn’t coaching. The problem is that we’ve gone about 3-for-80 in recruiting quality offensive linemen.”–and QB.

    Uhhh. well whose responsiblity is it to recruit quality players??

    If ya’all remenber that power house in durham beat us in recruitng rankings last year.

    But after our recent BB coaching search, hope CTC is here for awhile.
    Although his losing ACC record and recent recruiting years does not instill alot of confidence. What I really don’t understand is with 3 DL’s going in the 1st round of the NFL draft–I would think 4 and 5 star DL would be lining up outside CTC’s door. Just don’t understand.

  22. Woof Wolf 09/11/2006 at 4:58 PM #

    I know that defense wins games, but you can’t win 0 – 0. I haven’t totally given up on Chuck or the season. But if we don’t fix the offense it’s going to be a long year.

    If we lose 7 or more games and or go under 500 in the conference it will be time to look for options. However, I wouldn’t suggest firing him and then looking for options. I think it might be a better plan to find a replacement first . If we can’t find and sign someone we think might be better, then we stay with Chuck until we do.

    My favorite scenario would be hire Cowher (fat chance) and keep Amato as Head Coach of the Defense and Recruiting. But that would probably be too many egos and way out of our price range.

  23. Cardiff Giant 09/11/2006 at 5:04 PM #

    Amato made an ass of himself in the press conference today.

  24. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 09/11/2006 at 5:09 PM #

    duck-

    I understand it doesn’t take a star QB to make a superstare wide but you would think when recruiting QB’s you would say you’ll be throwing to a Quick, Peebles, Holt, Robinson, et. al.

    I just think with all the great WR we would of picked up a few better QB even if just by accident.

  25. packbackr04 09/11/2006 at 5:11 PM #

    woof^ if cowher came , there is no need for Amato.

    Chop^^^^^ agreed noone thought they could go 96 yds. my main point in this argument is that this particular turnover changed the entire complexion of the game, and i dont think they would have scored two more TDs on us had we kicked the FG. Like i said it totally demoralized us and energized them. But i think we gentlemanly agree to disagree. many good points on your part, and that is what is great about sports. Cookie couldve crumbled a number of ways and Chuck could be getting hailed as a great coach right now had Stone Ran that in for 6. Such is the way of life

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