Would Herb have left NC State THIS month?

General NCS Basketball79

Playing the “what-if” game can sometimes be dangerous, but we’re a blog…so, why not play what-if sometimes?

SFN ran across a story today that made us ask “what-if?” in regards to Herb Sendek and his tenure at NC State. Nebraska’s Head Basketball Coach, Barry Collier, has accepted the Athletics Directorship position at his alma mater, Butler. (For a great related SFN entry, please click here.)

This is interesting because there was a lot of speculation that Coach Sendek was a top candidate for the Nebraska job 6 years ago when Collier was hired and when the pressure was (justifiably) mounting on Sendek after four consecutive seasons of failing to make an NCAA appearance at NC State. In fact, a friend of Sendek once shared with a member of SFN that when the pressure was frustrating Herb a couple of years ago (after a few NCAA Tourney appearances), Sendek had quipped, “I should have taken the Nebraska job”. So, legimitate reason exists for us to think that Sendek would have entertained thoughts of Lincoln, Nebraska again.

“What-if” Herb had not taken the Arizona State job? Would he have bitten at the Nebraska job this time around? Would it have been too close to the start of the 2006-2007 academic year? Certainly Nebraska would have had MORE interest in Herb in 2006, after 5 consecutive NCAA appearances, than they did in 2000 after 4 consecutive NIT appearances. Nebraska, from a basketball sense, is in no worse shape than Arizona State, and can at least boast about being the only game in town in the state of Nebraska.

How would Cedric Simmons’ departure and the likelihood that Andrew Brackman may give up basketball have impacted Sendek? NC State’s 06-07 roster would look exactly the same except for two freshmen (Dan Werner and Larry Davis), and Sendek was never one to rely on freshman for playing time.

How would this “what-if” have impacted Werner and Davis? Herb leaving in August would have not given those two much time to look for other programs. The scholarships they took at Florida and Seton Hall in May would surely not have been available in August.

And more importantly, how would Lee Fowler have conducted a coaching search in August? Would he just have promoted an assistant on an interim basis, or conducted a full blown search for a permanent replacment, knowing the start of the season is a mere 2 1/2 months away? Similarly, it will be interesting to see how Nebraska AD, Steve Peterson handles finding a replacement. Andy Katz has blogged about the situation at Nebraska for ESPN Premium members.

Nevada’s Mark Fox could have a major dilemma if a phone call comes from Nebraska about the Cornhuskers’ now-open men’s basketball job.

This isn’t a new dilemma for coaches like Fox. Do you go to a school that is one of the tougher jobs in the Big 12 that probably pays significantly more money in a conference that can put upwards of six teams in the NCAA Tournament in a given year? Or do you stay put where you know you have a great shot to make a run in the NCAAs?

If Herb had not taken the ASU job, it is SFN’s opinion that he would have seriously gone after this Big 12 position, even with the August timeframe. What do you think?

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General NCS Basketball

79 Responses to Would Herb have left NC State THIS month?

  1. packbackr04 08/03/2006 at 12:01 PM #

    trout^ point taken, i know it seems alot to ask but the reason he is where he is, is because NC State put him on the map! All we want is a little props, but this entire topic and the beating we took in the media is not Herbs fault, its Jeds, Fowler knew he was leaving, and the extended coaching search is what really allowed the Doyells of the world to drag us through the mud for “running herb out of town”

    wulfpack^ the reason you hear the media and other coaches talk about what a class guy Herb is, was because he was their patsy. They could talk about how nice he is and what a stand up guy he is, and then mop the floor with his teams. And turn it around on the fans for being ungrateful for such a “great ” coach. Williams and K loved Herb because they consistantly kicked the shit out of his teams

  2. Wulfpack 08/03/2006 at 12:03 PM #

    ^This is utterly insane. How disallusioned you are.

  3. packbackr04 08/03/2006 at 12:04 PM #

    but to reiterate, Trout, you are prob right, if i was herb, would i want to stick my neck out to call out the media and say, “you guys are way off in trashing State, i left them because i had what i felt was a better offer” probably not

  4. packbackr04 08/03/2006 at 12:10 PM #

    Wulfpack^ not disallusioned just competitive.
    its the same thing with bunting, IF ( a big IF) we could only beat his teams.
    I want Bunting to stay put for a long time because he hasnt proved that he is taking that program anywhere. And the longer they are sitting still the more headway we can make on them. I think others in the ACC felt this way about Herb program was all i was saying

  5. VaWolf82 08/03/2006 at 12:20 PM #

    If Evan Turner and a quality big player had been added to Chris Wright’s commitment, his mood may have been different.

    I tend to agree with this. The odds of Sendek being interested in a new job in August would be a function of how recruting played out over the summer.

    The Herbavores had already started the “Wait ’til Chris Wright” chant. The early departure of Simmons and Brackman combined with a good recruiting class would have given the usual suspects all of the excuses they needed to cover a bad season in ’06-’07 and resume their annual chants of WTNY. Does anyone doubt that Fowler would have been leading the chorus with the same old refrains?

  6. yannes 08/03/2006 at 12:26 PM #

    Nope, he would have stayed this time of year. Herb was a logical man and a pragmatist. If he had left in August, he would have no time to set up his system, make recruiting in-roads, and build a staff. Additionally, I think that his family would have come first and that he would not force a move so close to the start of the school season.
    He also knew that his job was safe in spite of the cries of some more vocal fans. It is pretty clear that Oblinger, Fowler, and donors like Murphy were satisfied with the job that Herb was doing at NC State and he was not going to face any job troubles unless he really made a drop-off (which did not look likely). Sorry to disappoint some of you people that still harp on the negative aspects of Sendek, but his teams filled seats and brought in plenty of cash for the university.
    If Sendek had left this late in the summer, Davis and Werner would have had no choice but to stay at NC State. Davis and Werner would have both been enrolled in summer school and would be gearing up for the season at this point. Wright and Turner probably would have signed their LOIs.

  7. class of 74 08/03/2006 at 12:29 PM #

    Using the word of other coaches or the media regarding Sendek’s suitability is brainless. When have you ever heard a college coach say something derogatory towards another college coach? It never happens unless someone is cheating.

    Our fanbase loved Case, they loved Sloan, they loved Valvano. They did not love Robinson or Sendek because neither lived up to the level of past success. This is not a hard concept for most to understand but a few HSSS’ers linger.

    Also, every coach at State struggled in his early tenure other than Case and I expect the same trend will continue. Our cupboard is not filled with great quality or quantity at this time but I’m sure Coach Lowe will get this turned around in a couple of classes.

  8. Cardiff Giant 08/03/2006 at 12:52 PM #

    Wulfpack, while not associating myself with all those remarks, it’s a cast iron fact that Roy and K kicked the shit out of Herb on a yearly basis: 8-38, remember, and – what – 0-5 against Roy? Why WOULD they want him to leave? It would be like someone wanting to replace the Polish Army with the Wehrmacht.

  9. redfred2 08/03/2006 at 2:26 PM #

    Does what any coach said about Herb Sendek really matter? No coach, or regular person for that matter, has a strong opinion of someone that they feel confident they are always going to be better than. Wulf, we’ve been over this many times already, my Roy Williams as a young boy, kicking the neighbor’s helpless dog every time it showed up, analogy comes back to mind.

    The dog has teeth now.

  10. packbackr04 08/03/2006 at 2:33 PM #

    nice Cardiff, WWII analogies kick ass

  11. ShootingGuard 08/03/2006 at 3:02 PM #

    As Charlie Brown used to say,”GOOD GRIEF!!”

    Is our outlook so bad for next season that we have to bring Herb Sendek back into the conversation so we can actually beat on someone while our team gets clobbered on the court? Sheese, I can’t say I look forward to ArizonaStateNation breaking down every Herb failure this basketball season and keeping the Herb Hater vs Herb Lover battles alive and well while our new regime tries to start everything over and get us out of the basement for the third time since Jimmy V was deposed…

    Herb Sendek improved the program from terrible to mediocre, a participant but not a contender. He was a mediocre though hardworking recruiter and a mediocre overall coach. He had zero charisma with fans, the media, or even his players. He had to go. He knew he had to go. Hell yeah he would have gone to Nebraska now if no better opportunity had presented itself earlier—better to leave State looking successful and rake in 5 more years of money than stay and get fired after next season which is in the toilet no matter who coaches the team at this point.

  12. redfred2 08/03/2006 at 3:19 PM #

    ^ShootingGuard

    Good shot. To end it all on a happier note, Herb was…well…Herb is…in Tucson.

    I’m pretty confident that we will see a more likeable style quickly evolving around here shortly and players whose faces we already recognize, playing a game that we don’t. The likeable part is easy, the winning part may take a little time to really develop any consistency. I’ll take ’em one at a time, however they come.

  13. Mr O 08/03/2006 at 5:10 PM #

    If we are ever going to compete with Duke and UNC again, then Lowe is going to have to be able to recruit at least as well as Herb Sendek did. Herb was one of the better recruiters in the ACC and he got better as time went by in putting together quality teams. He was well on his way to another very, very good recruiting class prior to him leaving and while the loss of Simmons and potentially Brackman would have hurt at least the program would have been positioned to rebound fairly quickly. Now, our new coach COULD be in a 3-5 year rebuilding job as a worst case scenario.

    Hopefully, Lowe will be at least as good as Herb Sendek in terms of recruiting. He needs to be.

  14. Wulfpack 08/03/2006 at 5:19 PM #

    ^Which has been exactly my point all along. Our fanbase had better wise up quick or else we’re going to run our one of our own before he and his staff has any time to get his feet on the ground.

    And back to the debate about college coaches/media speaking highly of our previous coach: I don’t hear these same people echoing the same sentiments about Prosser, Purnell, Leitao, Greenberg, Hamilton, etc…you get my point. Some of our fans act as if we didn’t win a game in 10 years, when in reality we were every bit a player comparative to top-calibre ACC and NCAA competition the last 5 years. I certainly don’t fault the fan base for wanting to do better. At the same time, it could have certainly been far, far worse. And I’m afraid we’re about to experience those frustrations these next few years. That’s no knock on Lowe — history has indicated it just comes with the territory.

    I really have nothing more to say about this topic (I’m sure some of you are extremely happy about this). It really angers me the way some wearing red continue to mis-treat a guy who worked his tail off to get this program, which happens to compete in the most competitive conference in the NCAA, back to respectability. Surely we owe him a debt of gratitude.

  15. redfred2 08/03/2006 at 5:22 PM #

    packpigskinfan23,

    Your comment just reminds me that if you are not man enough to step up to the mic and honestly answer to the heat, even when it isn’t totally justified, in this case it absolutely was, people are going keep talking badly about your performance until eternity. The same could be said for the dead silence coming out of Raleigh during the coaching search. Defenseless targets who don’t feel any obligation to answer their critics even when they are screwing up royally, will always draw the kind of attention.

  16. redfred2 08/03/2006 at 5:29 PM #

    I am pretty sure Sidney Lowe will answer questions honestly and directly even on his radio show, not dodging the real issues with a line of never ending and worn out basketball cliches or excuses.

    That’s all it takes to earn a place in people’s hearts. Herb wasn’t up to that task.

  17. redfred2 08/03/2006 at 5:43 PM #

    “— history has indicated it just comes with the territory.”

    Total BS.

    These guys are in a position and paid big money to respond to criticism by doing something different on the football field/basketball court. And when they aren’t using their talent properly, as everyone, everywhere, clearly points out to them directly, as seen on every sports show and in sporting news article written, they ARE obligated to answer some simple questions as to why not, and what their plans are to make it better.

  18. Wulfpack 08/03/2006 at 5:48 PM #

    ^To clarify, I’m referring to a coaching change in the ACC i.e. it is going to take some time to get this program back to par.

  19. packpigskinfan23 08/03/2006 at 6:15 PM #

    at least 3 years

  20. redfred2 08/03/2006 at 7:47 PM #

    Maybe I worded that “screwing up royally” a little too strongly if you think that was in reference to Herb only. That sentence was intended to be directed mostly at the AD. Even with that explanation and subtle retraction in mind, the word temporary, what eeeveer your standard intrepretation of the word may be, is still an awful long time when based on the normal snail’s pace that things occur in Raleigh.

    So settle in for the longterm and ride it out. I would be willing to bet that you will be pleasantly surprised more than one time during this upcoming season.

  21. VaWolf82 08/03/2006 at 8:04 PM #

    Also, every coach at State struggled in his early tenure other than Case and I expect the same trend will continue.

    Since the formation of the ACC, every NC State coach has won the ACCT within three years of taking over in Raleigh….with two exceptions. Care to guess on the two exceptions?

  22. redfred2 08/03/2006 at 10:03 PM #

    “Since the formation of the ACC, every NC State coach has won the ACCT within three years of taking over in Raleigh…”

    Twenty pitiful years have erased all that was gained over the previous fifty years by great coaches and players who wore red in Raleigh before that time. Attitudes involving the university’s place in the overall scheme of things have suffered even more. That’s a cold, hard reality that has to accepted and lived with for now. I’m optimistic that after this first hump is cleared, Sidney Lowe may be the intial catalyst to spark the turnaround.

  23. Glen Sudhop54 08/03/2006 at 10:35 PM #

    ^Wulfpack^

    Good commentary. you’re not alone. Thanks for interjecting a little common sense. The longer these types of posts go on we’ll soon learn that Evil Herb was the mastermind behind 9-11.

    At least we can look forward to Chuck getting the same treatment. It’s his turn to be run outta town.

  24. redfred2 08/03/2006 at 11:08 PM #

    Glen Sudhop54, I seem to remember a series of posts a while back where something to the affect was said about how Chuck needed to get a grip and tell his players to quit acting like it was “payday at the liquor store” also comparing how absolutely horrorable basketball would be if he were the one coaching it.

    Strange how things seem to be OK for some, at certain times of course.

  25. packbackr04 08/04/2006 at 8:43 AM #

    Herb is gone so lets just let him wallow in his own mediocrity, as long as he does it elsewhere, lets go Sid!

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