Excuse My Rant – NC State/UT Series “Shelved”

In an article containing the hopeful nugget that NC State and USC may resume their storied rivalry, The State reports this oft-rumored terrible news:

If the two-year deal is finalized, the Wolfpack would visit Williams-Brice Stadium in 2008, with USC traveling to Raleigh in ‘09. Vaughn said N.C. State is looking to fill a couple of future dates after a home-and-home series with Tennessee was shelved.

It’s hard for words to express how furious I am at this news. First, I will share some background, in full disclosure of my possible personal bias. My mother grew up in Asheville. When she was young, she attended many games in Neyland Stadium with her father (who died 15-20 years ago). Having heard those stories, I was really looking forward to taking her to see our alma mater play in that storied venue. No doubt many other Wolfpackers (especially those with ties to western NC) were also looking forward to it. And it’s not going to happen.

Beyond the letdown for the fans (not a smart idea gievn the understandable unrest after the pedestrian performances of the last three seasons), it’s also dumb strategically. Because of the region’s strong cultural ties to the Vols, playing (and especially beating) UT would be phenomenal exposure for NC State in western NC. Many of the high school players from Charlotte westward grow up dreaming of the SEC, not the ACC. A strong performance or two could have planted many a seed. And it’s not going to happen.

But wait, you might say. Isn’t it likely that the “big boy” simply backed out on NC State? I can’t be 100% certain, but it’s very, very unlikely. It’s been long rumored (from numerous and disparate sources) that Chuck Amato didn’t want this series on the schedule. Despite the EXTRA non-conference game to pad the W/L record and university coffers, playing the Vols (who have been more bark than bite more often than not of late), still is anathema to Chuck. I doubt Tennessee put up a huge fight to keep us on their docket, as they can schedule pretty much anybody they want. But for NC State, it was a huge, once in a generation kind of opportunity. And it’s not going to happen.

Yes, the “new” ACC is strong. But Miami and VT (the 2 best programs) are in the other division, and we’ll never play them both in the same regular season again (in all likelihood). Last season’s Sagarin rankings put NC State’s schedule strength at 43. Even in the never-to-be-replicated tough schedule of 2004 (games against Miami, VT, and Ohio State), we only checked in with the 27th toughest schedule. A little excitement for September wouldn’t be suicidal, or even unwise. But it’s not going to happen.

The only potential mitigating factor is that we are (thankfully) talking about a home-and-home with an old rival – Spurrier’s South Carolina Gamecocks. But at this stage, it’s just talk. And my cynical brain bets it won’t happen. If we go the SEC route, something tells me Kentucky would be more to Chuck’s liking. Hey, the ACC office already arranged for us to play Pitt twice, in order to make nice with the Big East for stealing all of their thunder. Maybe “you people” should just be happy with that for the next 10 years. Maybe we’ll even voluntarily sign up for more games with the purple-clad riotous mob from Down East! After all, with a 12-game schedule, a Tire or Boise Bowl appearance is possible even with a 2-6 ACC mark! And sadly, that is something that very much might happen.

About BJD95

1995 NC State graduate, sufferer of Les and MOC during my entire student tenure. An equal-opportunity objective critic and analyst of Wolfpack sports.

Chuck Amato General NCS Football

48 Responses to Excuse My Rant – NC State/UT Series “Shelved”

  1. VaWolf82 06/05/2006 at 1:04 PM #

    I do think you’re in the limelight more if you play high profile games.

    I would edit that sentence to “win high profile games”. Triple OT in the ‘Shoe got alot of coverage. How much post-game coverage did the return stinker in Raleigh get?

    Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for playing good teams. However, the “value” to the FB program is minimal. Some day I hope to see a situation where State’s SOS matters to the FB team. However, it certainly won’t matter this year….and the UNC system admission rules pretty much guarantee that it won’t matter any time soon.

  2. Wulfpack 06/05/2006 at 1:15 PM #

    I completely disagree. Do you watch Sportscenter? What highlights do they selectively show? Do you think that high school talent don’t pay attention to this sort of thing?

    The value to the program is not minimal, it’s huge! When a kid chooses a school, if he’s anything of a competitor he wants a shot to play against the best in the country.

    Our program has recently performed well against top-notch competition. It is defeatist to think that NCSU football can’t one day become what Tennessee or Ohio State has.

  3. GAWolf 06/05/2006 at 1:53 PM #

    I’m a firm believer that all athletes play to the quality of their opponents. It happens everyday in every sport. I think it prepares you for games down the road, win or lose. In turn, a weak schedule doesn’t prepare you for anything down the road. Obviously this is a blatant problem with basketball and our performance in the NCAA tournament the last few years. However, it’s just as big a problem in football.

    It really shocks me that Amato is taking this approach to scheduling… some of which I understand can be attributed not to Amato but to people backing out of schedule agreements. Nonetheless, Amato cut his teeth playing for a man who built one of the… if not THE… greatest college football dynasty in recent memory. Bowden took a relatively unknown FSU team to nationally recognized household name by playing anybody anywhere. He got the recognition by playing the already recognized programs… win or lose.

    But now, it seems even FSU has changed their tune. Read this article. And then tell me what has happened to FSU since 2004. Is it more than scheduling? Perhaps. Is it possible that the change in scheduling mentality has worn off on the once proud FSU players? I would say it’s at least possible.

    Check it out:

    http://www.sptimes.com/2004/09/15/news_pf/Sports/FSU_to_ease_up_on_sch.shtm

    FSU to ease up on scheduling nonleague foes

    It built a reputation vs. top teams, but the BCS and a tougher ACC have changed things.

    By BRIAN LANDMAN, Times Staff Writer
    Published September 15, 2004

    TALLAHASSEE – Just six years ago, Florida State faced a nonconference schedule akin to a pitcher staring at the heart of the 1927 Yankees’ Murderers’ Row:

    Texas A&M, Southern California, Miami and Florida. Of that quartet, only the Hurricanes were unranked at game time. The Seminoles won all four games, which enabled them to overcome an early-season loss and reach the Bowl Championship Series finale.

    Coach Bobby Bowden, in fact, established FSU as one of the nation’s elite by taking on anyone, anywhere.

    “As you look back at what you thought was your Achilles’ heel, a tough schedule, ended up being the best thing that happened to your football program,” he said. “We got our reputation off of that.”

    Times have changed.

    Besides the annual regular season finale with the Gators, the Seminoles’ nonconference slate this year features Syracuse and Alabama-Birmingham, Saturday’s opponent.

    The Orangemen have a rich tradition but haven’t won a league title since 1998 – quarterback Donovan McNabb’s final season – and haven’t made it to a bowl since 2001. UAB is still a relative babe in the college football world; it didn’t start its program until 1989 and only moved to Division I-A in 1996.

    Ruth, Gehrig and company they’re not.

    Seminole fans, get used to it.

    “You have to use some common sense in who you’re taking on,” Bowden said.

    When the Seminoles joined the ACC in 1992, they were far away the top team. They rolled to a 70-2 league record in the first nine years, winning the title outright or sharing it each year.

    But as Bowden expected and the rest of the league long hoped, the Seminoles’ presence helped the other teams to improve or forever be mocked as one of the eight dwarfs.

    Each school started pumping more money into football facilities to lure more blue-chip prospects but also former NFL coaches such as Al Groh (Virginia), Ralph Friedgen (Maryland), Chan Gailey (Georgia Tech) and John Bunting (North Carolina). The addition this year of perennial national powers Miami and Virginia Tech have raised the ACC to new heights.

    “We’ve always tried to get an attractive schedule, but I do think with the conference getting stronger it’s about attractive enough as it is,” Bowden said. “You don’t hardly need to make it more attractive.”

    Of late, that has been and will continue to be the guiding principle as the Seminoles seek one non-onference game for each of the next six years (2005-10) now that Miami is an annual ACC showdown.

    “My point to Bobby is this: I know how the program was built and I applaud it, but we’ve got to put more common sense now into our scheduling approach,” athletic director Dave Hart said. “For years, we played our ACC schedule and were absolutely dominant and then we’d go outside and play cross-sectional games against Top 10 teams. I know that’s what our fan base has grown with and is accustomed to, but you have to take into consideration where postseason football is.”

    Teams that hope to reach the BCS finale better not lose more than once, if that. The chances of that happening increase if you line up against ranked teams week after week.

    “Having said that, I don’t think we should load up with nonconference games anymore against Top 10, Top 15 or even Top 25 teams,” Hart said. “As you look across the landscape of college football and look at the Top 10 teams in other conferences, quite honestly, they’ve been doing that for a long time.”

    That means more teams like an Eastern Michigan or a UAB, almost always in Tallahassee.

    That’s not to call UAB a cupcake.

    Bowden doesn’t do that with any opponent, even the ones that are loaded with frosting. He knows that no team that nearly upset Georgia last season, losing 16-13 in Athens, and is fresh off a resounding win against Baylor is an automatic W that comes to town merely to collect a few hundred thousand dollars.

    “We’ve come a long way,” Blazers coach Watson Brown said. “We were in the days when we got checks and it was important. Then we’ve gone through where we needed image and the only way to get image (is to take games at an FSU).”

    Like the Seminoles once did.

    “I remember when I first came to Florida State. We’d sneak up and beat Nebraska when nobody thought we could,” Bowden said. “Southern Miss did that (Saturday). … People say, “What the heck is he worried about UAB for?’ The same reason Nebraska had to deal with Southern Miss.”

    But that still seems a more favorable matchup than say Southern California. So, get used to it. The times have changed.
    © Copyright, St. Petersburg Times. All rights reserved.l

  4. Mr O 06/05/2006 at 2:57 PM #

    We got a lot more press and exposure the year we won 10 games than in the years we played Ohio St.

    At this point, the ACC is plenty tough and gives us plenty of opportunity for marquee wins. Look at UNC as a perfect example…if they had scheduled more wisely the last few years, then Bunting’s program would be perceived very, very differently.

  5. BJD95 06/05/2006 at 3:24 PM #

    All I am asking for here is a little BALANCE. You don’t have to play murderer’s row (like UNC has) or load up on patsies. A balanced schedule gets you the competition you need and is attractive for fans. It’s not a black and white thing, but rather, shades of gray.

    Also, having ONE marquee game is certainly helpful (and hugely so) if you win. What makes it such a no-brainer is that it doesn’t really HURT you if you lose, unless that ONE loss keeps you from going 6-6 (in which case, to me, is no big f’ing deal) or 12-0.

    You do see more programs taking the coward’s way out, which is a shame. The sport is eventually going to suffer unless we figure out some way to reduce some of the perverse incentives out there.

  6. wolfydave 06/05/2006 at 3:31 PM #

    I would be more worried about some oportunistic lawyer associated with some LTR owner’s pointing out the fact that some of the advertisements used to encourage the purchase of LTR’s including the fact that ND and UT were on future home schedules when now its apparent they are not, and in the case of ND, they may never have been….

    Chuck needs to understand that the folks who have shelled out millions for his little palace want to see more than Southern Miss or Appalachian State every now and then… In years when we don’t play Miami and VT in the league we should have an opponent such as a UT or ND to fill the void.

  7. class of 74 06/05/2006 at 3:48 PM #

    GAWolf go to the head of the class. Three things have brought FSU back to earth from their once lofty heights: the loss of Mark Richt was primary, the loss of Chuck was secondary and the weaker scheduling was tertiary.

    I have long argued the weak schedules send the wrong message to your team, fanbase and recruits. Nobody wins anything important by shying away from competition!

  8. redfred2 06/05/2006 at 3:57 PM #

    What if:

    NC State 43, Western Carolina 8

    The following week

    NC State 12, UNC 23

    Nobody watched the first game above except NCSU and WCU fans. Did it matter? Was it any real help, to the team and the players (not the BCS voters) in preparing for the following week and the rest of the season?

  9. Mr O 06/05/2006 at 4:11 PM #

    BJD95: Managing a football program is extremely complicated. I think calling it a “cowards” way out is a bit over the top.

    When we used to only play Florida St, then I agree with you. But things a are a lot different now IMO especially since we dropped Duke from our schedule. There are four potential top 10 teams in the ACC next year in FSU, Miami, Va Tech and Clemson. If we use Va Tech as an example of how to build a program, then one trademark of how Beamer built his program was with extremely weak OOC schedules and in a weak overall conference.

    Beamer did it by winning a lot of games against weak opponents. A lot weaker opponents than what we face in the ACC.

  10. VaWolf82 06/05/2006 at 4:25 PM #

    Beamer built his program

    And this is my point. The strength of the program reflects on the coaches…their abilities as recruiters, teachers, and game-day tacticians. The schedule has absolutely no impact on the strength of the program. Saying that the team plays to the opponents tells me that the coaches don’t have control of the players.

    The team is as good as the players and the coaches. The fans and the schedule have maybe 0.0001% impact on the program.

  11. VaWolf82 06/05/2006 at 4:26 PM #

    It’s much easier to show that FSU’s drop in the national polls is related to the play of their QB’s than a change in scheduling philosophy.

  12. class of 74 06/05/2006 at 4:43 PM #

    ^Their QB play has suffered tremendously since Richt’s departure. And their recruiting is not as strong in Palm Beach, Broward and Dade counties since Chuck left. And you could make a strong case that playing weak opponents makes it difficult to keep a team sharp throughout the season thus leading to critical breakdowns in big games.

    How many bigtime games have the Hokies won? I think they play too many weaklings to put themselves in the same category as FSU or even Miami.

  13. VaWolf82 06/05/2006 at 5:07 PM #

    How many bigtime games have the Hokies won?

    Enough to win the ACC in their first year and the title game in their second year. But you’re right, they are not in the same league as UM or FSU…but still well ahead of State.

  14. WolfInVolCountry 06/05/2006 at 5:20 PM #

    I am not happy that the Vol/Pack games got scrubbed. Even though I had a child at UT, I always had trouble pulling for them over ACC schools. It would have been a real coup to have State play and quite possibly beat the Vols. It would have put a real dent into their western NC recruiting. Believe it or not it would have helped in strengthening our recruiting vs. VaTech, as they also have close ties to this area.

    As an aside, it was obvious that the TN media swallowed Calipari’s excuses hook-and-all during the recent coaching search. They very much see ACC hoops as dominated by Dook and UNC and could not understand why anyone would consider taking the State job with those two looming. Needless to say, that pissed me off even more.

    Honestly, a consoling thought was to have State march in to Neyland Stadium and paint it red to show them what they did not know about the Pack. Guess that won’t happen now.

  15. Wolf-n-Atl 06/05/2006 at 9:34 PM #

    “Beamer built his program was with extremely weak OOC schedules and in a weak overall conference.”

    Didn’t VTech have several games against teams such as: Gtech, LSU, Virginia and others? I wouldn’t call those extremely weak teams. I am assuming that the poster was talking about earlier in Beamer’s career, but I would like to see who they played OOC and also see their overall records in those years.

  16. redfred2 06/05/2006 at 10:05 PM #

    Are we talking about actually building a strong football program, or just having the appearance of doing so? Only one can be accomplished on the football field, the other on paper, with regards to scheduling.

  17. VaWolf82 06/05/2006 at 11:24 PM #

    but I would like to see who they played OOC and also see their overall records in those years.

    http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_ia/acc/virginia_tech/index.php

    If it aint’ there, it ain’t worth knowing.

  18. ncsslim 06/06/2006 at 9:34 AM #

    We’ve ponied up a lot of cash for facility/program improvements. We deserve something more than the scheduling we are getting at the moment. We pay the same exhorbitant price, regardless, which is obviously part of the problem (as with basketball). Yes, no wants there asses handed to them on a routine basis, but we were led to believe we were thriving to compete with the best. It’s a continuing sign of the weakness in our athletic department management that scheduling appears to be contrived to make the coaches appear more ept than they actually are. You do not turn down the chance to play the Tennessee’s of the world on a home and home basis, period. Sorry, but purely pathetic, if in fact we were the driving party in this cancellation.

  19. wolfydave 06/06/2006 at 10:25 AM #

    We’ve ponied up a lot of cash for facility/program improvements.

    AND WHEN SOME OF THE SOLICITATIONS & ADDS WERE BASED ON FUTURE HOME SERIES WITH ND, OHIO STATE, AND TENN. there is where I could see some potentially PR disasters for the Athletic Dept.

  20. redfred2 06/06/2006 at 11:03 AM #

    It’s play a weak OOC schedule all year and then have your lunch eaten by the Tennessee Vols on the big screen in a supposed tight battle of national powerhouses. I’d rather sacrifice a few mediocre bowl appearances and work to get to their level. You can’t do that by beating no-name teams, that only builds false hopes, which we have had our share.

    Football or basketball, it all boils down to facing the same sad reality when the REAL national powers come out to play at the of the year.

  21. redfred2 06/06/2006 at 11:07 AM #

    TYPO- at the “end” of the year.

  22. GAWolf 06/06/2006 at 4:05 PM #

    Didn’t we have a longstanding home/away game with Va Tech? So we’re the weak competition Beamer built his program on? If I’m not mistaken prior to VA Tech joinging the acc they were to be one of our OOC games here recently.

    Obviously there are many reasons why FSU has lost some ground lately, but I’m just saying that scheduling pansies doesn’t help with the program image, the players’ self-esteem and attitude, or fan support.

  23. redfred2 06/07/2006 at 3:34 AM #

    “The schedule has absolutely no impact on the strength of the program.”

    I have to totally disagree with that statement. The best programs in the country on paper, can’t play weak schedules and then instantly play up to their full potential with the push of a button, and only when it becomes necessary. It takes competition to figure out where your weaknesses lie and then figure out where to sharpen your skills accordingly. There are no barometers to see how the team will handle stiff competition, if they’re not accustomed to it before they face a real team in a bowl game, or a basketball tournament.

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