State Loses Recruiting Steam?

Basketball Recruiting General NCS Basketball41

I kind of gave up trying to follow or care about recruiting in recent years. After about a dozen times of being told by those close to the program that players like Adam Simons, Mike O’Donnell, Trey Guidry, Dom Mejia, and Justin Flatt are real “sleepers” who are going to be able to surprise people and help the Pack I just gave up on the whole process.

But, the whole coaching change has re-energized me a little on the topic.

The Durham-Herald Sun has a very nice article on some interesting things about State’s basketball recruiting in today’s paper that you may be interested in reading. (Link)

Evan Turner, a 6-7 forward (and top-25 player in the Class of 2007) from St. Joseph High in Westchester, Ill., said Saturday afternoon that he was ready to commit to N.C. State before Sendek’s exit.

“This weekend, I was going to come down and commit,” Turner said after leading the Illinois Wolves to a 74-54 victory over the Tallahassee Wildcats in pool play of the Bob Gibbons Tournament of Champions at the Smith Center. “But he left a couple of months ago.”

Turner has started over with regard to picking a school and now considers himself “wide open.” He has taken an unofficial visit to Ohio State — he has family in Columbus, Ohio — and said Duke assistant coach Chris Collins recently contacted him.

The Wolfpack’s potential loss — Turner said he has not heard from anyone on new N.C. State coach Sidney Lowe’s staff — could turn out to be even greater. N.C. State also was recruiting Illinois Wolves point guard Demetri McCamey, who is Turner’s teammate at St. Joseph. The players said Saturday they don’t have to play their college basketball together, but they also said they wouldn’t mind it.

I am scratching my head furiously right now.

Hasn’t heard from anyone on Sidney Lowe’s staff?

Isn’t this EXACTLY the reason that made Larry Harris such an important component of Sidney Lowe’s staff?

Does anyone have any insight into this evolving situation?

Basketball Recruiting General NCS Basketball

41 Responses to State Loses Recruiting Steam?

  1. wayofthemaster 05/28/2006 at 1:34 PM #

    No insight here…only more questions.

    Like…

    Link

    “I really don’t know coach Lowe,” Davis said. “He’s not going to be here in June. It’s just not good going into a new thing like that, not knowing what you’re getting into.”

    then, check this out…

    http://northcarolinastate.scout.com/2/531449.html

    “Davis told Post reporter Dan Martin, “I’m glad N.C. State gave me this chance. I just want to see what else is out there. I’m still talking to Coach Lowe every day, but my hat’s off to Coach [Bobby] Gonzalez for getting things going so rapidly at Seton Hall. He’s obviously doing something right since he’s getting all these players. You notice that.”

    How can he not know what he is getting into… if he is talking to Coach Lowe everyday?

    Are we to surmise that Lowe is a poor recruiter, since he couldn’t hold on to a kid NC State already had, after talking to him on the phone everyday…since the day he was hired? Or was Davis intent on going to Seton Hall – no matter what transpired with Lowe – as it seems by reading the News-Record article.

    Also from the News-Record article…

    “State’s assistant coaches — Larry Harris and Pete Strickland in particular — urged him to stick with the Wolfpack.”

    Again, what does this say about the recruiting skills of Harris. Hadn’t he built a relationship with this kid over the last year? It sure doesn’t seem like it since Davis only needed about two weeks to change his mind. Is this an indictment of Harris or as I mentioned earlier…was Davis leaving regardless of the pitch Lowe, Harris, Strickland, etc., gave him.

    Starting to get a little nervous here!

  2. jncope 05/28/2006 at 1:40 PM #

    I’m not saying we give the new administration 10 years or anything like that but how about we give them 1 season before we start thinking that the sky is falling.

    SFN concerns about why Turner hasn’t been contacted are valid and will hopefully be corrected when the right person reads this thread. However, questioning our coaches recruiting skills because they couldn’t convince one particular kid, Davis, to stay is unreasonable.

  3. vtpackfan 05/28/2006 at 4:37 PM #

    I’m sorry, not to sound like I’m bashing on the kid, but maybe he should just quit when he’s ahead. A university, not a coach, that you signed a contract with has given you a conditional release and all he can muster up is this manure. That he was told that Harris would go to Lee Fowler to take care of the paperwork concerning his LOI. I know that some of these kids get used to getting the free pass, not having to live up to commitments like the rest humanity because of their god givin talent, but come on folks. He really does need to tell this thought provoking saga to a LOI appeals committe and not some joke beat reporter.

  4. vtpackfan 05/28/2006 at 4:39 PM #

    ….I meant jock, that read pretty bitter overall.

  5. vtpackfan 05/28/2006 at 4:59 PM #

    It’s hardly as if we’re running out of steam. Some could argue that with conditions as they are that the program is ahead of schedule. Towe just joined the staff, and Sid is fullfilling prior commitments that can/should help gather the type of steam thats not been seen for decades in Raleigh. I firmly beleive in that for starters. Secondly, out of three very early cases, which should not IMO be considered true tests, the results have been good, but not real fortunate. Davis was a departure from the start. That should be obvious. Lets not act jilted, but instead ask for some honest timelines of actions that took place, and let the officials call it like they see it. As far as Turner is concerned, I think there should be time given for someone to answer two questions that come out of this. Was he really coming in two months like he told the reported, and if so, did he choose not to be reached by anyone associated with NC State.

  6. choppack1 05/28/2006 at 5:09 PM #

    Any chance it was during a “dead period”? Also, is it possible that Harris, Towe and Strickland have to get the OK from Lowe?

  7. NCSU4LIFE 05/28/2006 at 7:29 PM #

    There are too many intangibles to factor in here. This kid could have poor grades, attitude issues, we could have decided to go in a different direction, etc……. Harris, Strickland, Towe are aware of what is at hand. Let’s have a tad more confidence in the 3 before we pass judgement.

  8. tractor57 05/29/2006 at 3:13 AM #

    With the advent of the internet everything is now. In my view it is way too early to critique the new BB coaching staff (Lowe isn’t even officially the head coach yet). Recruiting is a funny thing full of ups and downs and the story changes daily. I’m looking at what will happen about 5 years from now and so far I’m happy with the staff. Better than the lack of emotion shown by Sendeck.

  9. Jeff 05/29/2006 at 9:49 AM #

    ^ I don’t think anyone here was critiquing the new BB staff. Just asking questions and hoping some folks had some insight.

    With the advent of the internet everything is now.

    With the advent of the internet, everything is now transparent. This is one of the major reasons that incompetents like Lee Fowler hate the internet so much — they can’t hide from the masses as easily as they were accustomed 30 years ago.

  10. johnny 05/29/2006 at 4:52 PM #

    Not questioning the new staff, but it has been a very ruff start. Iwas hoping they would hit the ground running with respect to recruiting.

    SFN: How do you hit the ground running in the dead period?

  11. StateFans 05/30/2006 at 7:47 AM #

    ^ We were all thinking that Larry Harris’ presence would insure that the staff would hit the ground running.

  12. Dan 05/30/2006 at 8:50 AM #

    More hilarity. New coach isnt even in town yet. Some fans are already bashing him.

    If you guys would have listened to the audo interviews, you would have learned that none of the staff can make contact with these kids until Sid passes the test.

    SFN: Dan, please cite the “criticism” that you are referencing. Are you referring to SFN or the comments from the general community?

  13. DRW 05/30/2006 at 9:39 AM #

    Dan: If you hate everything on this site, why do you continue to come over here and post?

  14. redfred2 05/30/2006 at 11:15 AM #

    From “Simmons hires an agent thread.” Comments were closed before I could post a reply.

    ^Tomcat

    You and a bunch of others are now totally thrilled with the fact that NC State is further dismantling it’s own basketball program only because you think it makes your point for Herb Sendek. You are sadly mistaken about that.

    Expectations aren’t any lower, than would be if F’N HERB SENDEK were still here right now. I would be sitting back and getting ready to watch him ignore first round NBA draft talent, while taking talented freshmen reruits and turning them into underachieving, unappreciated, and shuffling them out the door as no-name seniors.

  15. Dan 05/30/2006 at 11:25 AM #

    Jeff: From the Larry Davis article:

    “It is UNACCEPTABLE that NC State would support this kind of behavior from the kid and from Seton Hall by just rolling over and being complicit in this bullshit.”

    Who do you think has the final word on the Larry Davis decision? Sidney Lowe. Maybe SFN was ignorant of that fact when they wrote this article and accused him of “being complicit in this bullshit”. That is none other than Sid they are yelling at there. That is basically telling Sid how to do his job. Again, maybe by somehow (I hjave no idea) the writer was unaware this was Sidney’s decision. But ignorance is no excuse. This site is reverting to its Herb Sendek era attitude, which is pretty disappointing since it had come a long way since those days.

    More ciriticism from the SFN group lately:

    Just today:

    “Hasn’t heard from anyone on Sidney Lowe’s staff?

    Isn’t this EXACTLY the reason that made Larry Harris such an important component of Sidney Lowe’s staff?”

    Maybe you dont realize that a job at the staff is a jab at Sid. It is. If you dont think Sid is running things right now, you have more to learn than I thought.

  16. Dan 05/30/2006 at 11:39 AM #

    “Dan: If you hate everything on this site, why do you continue to come over here and post?”

    Because it angers me when Wolfpack fans live up to ridiculous image the media has built for them. We all owe it to Sid put the attitude of the past behind us and get behind Sid 100%. I’m sure that Sid will do things in the course of the next couple of years that some of us would do differenty if we were the coach. But, newsflash, the vast majority of us are not even remotely qualified to be the head coach. Instead of jumping to conclusions to resorting to complaining, I suggest an attempt at understanding, especially for the first chapter of Sid’s reign here. Its ridiculous to accuse Sid of wanting to be “complicit in bullshit” because he both relates to Larry Davis’ position and is concerned about long term recruiting reputations. Its riduculous to blast the coaching staff because one recruit is saying he hasnt been contacted. That is kind of stuff that fosters the adversarial relationship with the coaching staff that Lee Fowler created.

  17. Dan 05/30/2006 at 11:51 AM #

    “SFN: How do you hit the ground running in the dead period?”

    13.02.3.4: Dead Period
    A dead period is that period of time when it is not permissible to make in-person recruiting contacts or evaluations on or off the member institution¹s campus or to permit official or unofficial visits by prospects to the institution¹s campus. The provision of complimentary admissions to a prospect during a dead period is prohibited, except as provided in 13.8.2.5 for a prospect who visits an institution as part of a group. During such a dead period, a coaching staff member may not serve as a speaker at or attend a meeting or banquet at which prospects are in attendance, except as provided in 13.1.12, and may not visit the prospects¹ educational institutions. It remains permissible, however, for an institutional staff member to write or telephone prospects during such a dead period.

    The only thing coaches are not allowed to do during the dead period is to physically meet with the recruit, or be present at an event with him. They are still allowed to contact the recruit via mail and are allowed telephone contact once a week. Its entirely possible to “hit the ground running” even during the dead period. However, I’m not sure that is possible in the sense some are taking it without a head coach in place.

  18. redfred2 05/30/2006 at 11:57 AM #

    Dan

    I agree with your last sentence wholeheartedly.

    There are a lot from the pro Sendek camp who seem to be getting a real rush thinking this somehow makes Sendek better than he was. They are delighted to watch as Fowler lets the whole program implode all around him. It seems all to weird to me.

    If I am not mistaken it was Fowler who granted the conditional release before he made anyone aware, and before Larry Harris knew anyhting about it.

  19. Dan 05/30/2006 at 12:02 PM #

    “If I am not mistaken it was Fowler who granted the conditional release before he made anyone aware, and before Larry Harris knew anyhting about it.”

    You are mistaken, red. This is a Sidney Lowe decision. All of these decisions were made after Sid aws hired and after Harris was brought on board. When asked about it, he talked about his own experience during the Sloan-Valvano transition. Sid understands the situaton from both sides better than anyone else can.

  20. redfred2 05/30/2006 at 12:40 PM #

    Dan, in a newspaper article there was talk of Fowler going out on own and allowing recruits to have contacts with other schools before Harris was in place. If I am off on the timeline, I am at least pretty certain that no one on Lowe’s staff was made aware of Fowler’s concessions before he had already spoken to the recruits.

  21. Jeff 05/30/2006 at 1:03 PM #

    A couple of quick questions:

    * Weren’t some of the conditional releases made prior to Sidney being announced as coach?

    * Can’t our assistant coaches (like Harris) be making contact with members of the class of 2007? Why does it have to be Sidney? Why hasn’t some of this happened with some of these players?

  22. Dan 05/30/2006 at 1:34 PM #

    “Weren’t some of the conditional releases made prior to Sidney being announced as coach?”

    I think if you look back at the official timeline, and at all of the comments from everyone involved you will see that this is not the case. Every recruit was quoted as being in a holding pattern until a coach was named. No releases of any kind were given prior to Sid coming on board. Dan Werner was granted the first release of any kind on May 10th. The Lowe PC was on May 6th. It should be noted that it was pretty much a given that Werner was going to ask for a release as soon as Herb left for ASU (barring Beilein), but that no release was issued until after Lowe had been hired.

    “Can’t our assistant coaches (like Harris) be making contact with members of the class of 2007? Why does it have to be Sidney? Why hasn’t some of this happened with some of these players?”

    This I am still fuzzy on. My initial belief was yes, but Pete Strickland’s comments last week gave me reason to believe that this might not be so. With all the NCAA rules, I would not be suprised that a head coach would need to be qualified in order for his assistants to pursue players. They generally block any end arounds their rules, and I could see how coaches could use that to get around obstacles if they were allowed. Either way, Lowe is the captain of the ship. The HC sets the recruiting agenda, and any contacts that are made are made per the HC’s orders. The staff is in constant contact with Sid. That we know for certain. Any criticism of action or inaction is cirticism of the HC.

  23. Dan 05/30/2006 at 1:36 PM #

    “Dan, in a newspaper article there was talk of Fowler going out on own and allowing recruits to have contacts with other schools before Harris was in place.”

    If he did so, there is no way he did so without first consulting the HC, Sidney Lowe. Not to mention that Harris being on staff was a foregone conclusion on the day of the Sidney Lowe PC.

  24. redfred2 05/30/2006 at 1:57 PM #

    Sidney Lowe is being paid to help coach a team wrapped up in the NBA playoffs, his job at NC State starts after he fulfills his obligations with the Detroit Pistons. That is where is his focus should be. I say all of that while knowing that agreements, signing legal documents, and honoring your obligations doesn’t mean one thing to a lot of you people out there.

    I am not defending Sidney Lowe, or his staff, but it seems to me that Fowler’s precedences have shaken up the transition period beyond belief.
    No one has stepped foward because they seem to have their hands tied and have no idea what the recruits were told.

    Apparently it hasn’t happened yet, but I hope Harris, Towe, or somebody has the sense, and the nerve, to take control of the whole show and tell everyone else to butt out in Lowe’s absence. I don’t know L Harris, but the unwaivering approach which he was a part of the last years, leads me to believe that he may not be up to the task. Towe just got here? Who has it in them to set some boundaries and stop all of this foolishness.

    This is not in any way Sidney Lowe’s, of the Detroit Pistons, problem or responsibility at this point. Though I guarantee you, many people will hold him totally accountable on the basketball court, just to make a useless point about Herb Sendek.

  25. redfred2 05/30/2006 at 2:16 PM #

    “If he did so, there is no way he did so without first consulting the HC, Sidney Lowe. Not to mention that Harris being on staff was a foregone conclusion on the day of the Sidney Lowe PC.”

    In the article Larry Harris directly contradicted what had been reported and said that he had no knowledge, at that specific time, of any agreements or concessions made by Fowler. The recruit had received the green light, from Lee Fowler, to talk to other universities before anyone on the new staff was given a chance to talk to him first.

    If Lowe and Lee Fowler are really keeping everyone else directly involved in the dark on decisions that important, NC State needs to go ahead and bow on out of the picture before the NBA playoffs end.

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