More Coaching Search De-Brief

General NCS Basketball43

Link to David Glenn’s first coaching de-brief and our comments

Link to some of our information related to Larry Brown (May 14th)

Link to the second installment of David Glenn’s coaching de-brief posted today

Rick Barnes

The Barnes chapter will be told in more detail at some point in the future, when the parties involved can speak freely without jeopardizing their duties in their current jobs, but several sources close to the coach said that at one point — and only one point — in his discussions with the Wolfpack he was leaning toward making the jump. That point came just as his “final no” to NCSU appeared in most newspaper reports.

“I talked with (Barnes) every day for a week, at least once a day,” one source said. “All along, he said great things about N.C. State, but he just couldn’t get past the idea of leaving behind all the great things he has at Texas. On that last day, though, they made him an even better offer than the one he thought was their ‘final’ offer. It was so amazing, so creative, and there was so much passion behind it, for one day he said he didn’t know what he was going to do. He stayed, obviously, but they pushed him to the edge.”

The Barnes ship has sailed and we are all looking forward to our future with Sidney Lowe…so there is not much use in re-hashing a lot of stuff. But, I have been personally criticized (in 2006) by idiots on message boards for comments that I made in 2000-2005 that stated the following: “Every day that Lee Fowler retains Herb Sendek, he is effectively choosing Herb Sendek over Rick Barnes.”

If the intimate nature of the NC State-Rick Barnes courtship in 2006 didn’t underscore my point in the last five years, then Glenn’s comments help do so. This is why schools should hire fantastic leaders for leadership positions and not cowardly, mono-dimensional reactive thinkers who spend more time looking for excuses and rationalizations than looking for innovative and proactive ways to improve. One can only scratch their head in wonder on where Rick Barnes would be coaching today had Lee Fowler and NC State not allowed him so damn long to build “all the great things he has at Texas”.

Again, it doesn’t matter any more.

Mike Montgomery
One item of the search which SFN never disclosed more was regarding the topic of Mike Montgomery. Glenn is handcuffed by what his sources tell him on some topics, and the Montgomery topic is one of them.

The Wolfpack never did get “close” with any other candidates, including Notre Dame coach Mike Brey, Golden State Warriors coach Mike Montgomery, Kentucky coach Tubby Smith and Villanova coach Jay Wright, although all of those men (and many others) were contacted about the vacancy in some fashion. …

You may want to go back to our April 20th coaching update for a moment. (Taking a look at April 19th wouldn’t hurt either)

What we were unable to share with you at the time (and did not learn more about until days later), was that Mike Montgomery and NC State were MUCH closer than anyone in the media ever learned. Montgomery gets paid $2.5 million a year and has 2 years remaining on an original 4-year/$10 million deal with the Golden State Warriors. Therefore, the Warriors would owe MM at least $5 million to fire him. Some rumors claim there is additional money embedded in the contract for a potential buyout, and therefore would create a larger number.

It was a foregone conclusion to most in the NBA during this season that Montgomery was going to be relieved of his duties as the Warriors Head Coach until the last week of the season when General Manager Chris Mullin publicly proclaimed Monty’s job was safe. He can’t simply quit and walk away from over $5 million of a lump sum payment that he will receive when/if he is fired.

The NBA is different than college. NBA coaches don’t recruit; their off-season duties are spent working with the front office on the draft, but the front-office can easily conduct a draft without a coach. ZERO incentive existed for the Warriors to fire Montgomery at the end of the season with the NC State job (and others) on the horizon. If the Warriors organization had the slightest thought that Montgomery would take another job then they had NO REASON to fire him and pay him a large buyout. Why not fire him during the summer? Why not give him 15 games to start next season and see how he does? If you are the Warriors, why fire a guy at the end of the season who MAY take another job and save you $5+ million?

Montgomery and NC State are linked by his personal relationship with Les Robinson. Since the relationship and communication flowed exclusively through these two parties, there was really no chance for a media leak. I even remember quotes by Robinson in the media downplaying MM; similar to his wife’s comments to WTVD-11.

Some morons on the message boards took these comments at 100% face value and used them to criticize some Wolfpackers who were logically discussing Montgomery as a potential candidate based on some of these public comments. What the hell were they supposed to say? “Yes, Monty is very interested in the job but we can’t talk about it in public for fear that the Warriors will find out and not pay us our big paycheck?”

If you go back and review the timeline of the coaching search, you start to get a better feel for just how close State/Les and Montgomery were –

* The Calipari rejection happened on Tuesday, April 11th. (Link)

* The “Beilein/Lavin” situation tanked on Wednesday, April 26th. (Link)

So, what was happening in the middle of those TWO FULL WEEKS? Think about it!? There was NOTHING about Steve Lavin OR John Beilein that precluded either one of them from being the “next step” after Calipari on April 11th. So why did their courtship not come to a crescendo until April 26th?

What DID exist to impede their candidacy earlier was a hope that the Golden State Warriors would fire Mike Montgomery around April 20th. That hope did not materialize as planned/hoped and the search went in other directions. Why else would I have written MULTIPLE entries at the time supporting Lee Fowler and urging fans NOT TO CRITICIZE like this one on April 19th.

More to Come
We still have a little more commentary to come on the search and on Coach Lowe. We’ll take advantage of the slow nature of the next month to wrap it all up.

General NCS Basketball

43 Responses to More Coaching Search De-Brief

  1. Rochester 05/23/2006 at 1:39 PM #

    Whether Lowe turns out to be a great coach is somewhat irrelevant in the Fowler situation. I think Lowe will do a great job. But keep in mind that Fowler tried to give the job to Steve Lavin. Had Lavin accepted we’d be doomed and Fowler would probably be lynched (firing then would look like the attractive option to him). Unless SFN’s de-briefing uncovers evidence that Steve Lavin doesn’t exist and/or Fowler never offered him the job, Lee should pack up and move out.

  2. vtpackfan 05/23/2006 at 1:42 PM #

    I have made a post or two that have been critical of LF for the way the search for the next head BB coach was conducted. I tried to be fair and look at it from differing perspectives, followed along with some interesting debate on this site, with some success (I can’t get the superimposed picture of Jeb Clampant out of my head…or is that really Jeb!) Anyways, I’ve got those thoughts out of my head and am ready to move forward.
    I can remember the words and expression of fulfillment coach Lowe displayed at the press conference. For him, the way that he became the head coach at NC State went smoothly. I am a firm believer of getting started off on the right foot, and I would like the honeymoon period to gain even more momentum. If Sid thinks it went ok, then so do I. What I’m saying sorta goes something like this. Are there any Catholic’s out there, or do you know some Catholic’s that got married under some tricky pretexts. Futhermore, were you part of or witnessed the wedding ceremony that went off with all the jubilation and celebration one could ever want? I’m not sure I should be mixing church with State (sorry, I had to) but it’s the best I can come up with.

  3. choppack1 05/23/2006 at 1:54 PM #

    “Are there any Catholic’s out there, or do you know some Catholic’s that got married under some tricky pretexts. Futhermore, were you part of or witnessed the wedding ceremony that went off with all the jubilation and celebration one could ever want? I’m not sure I should be mixing church with State (sorry, I had to) but it’s the best I can come up with.”

    Are you saying someone got knocked up?

  4. Jeff 05/23/2006 at 2:46 PM #

    Whether Lowe turns out to be a great coach is somewhat irrelevant in the Fowler situation. I think Lowe will do a great job. But keep in mind that Fowler tried to give the job to Steve Lavin. Had Lavin accepted we’d be doomed and Fowler would probably be lynched (firing then would look like the attractive option to him). Unless SFN’s de-briefing uncovers evidence that Steve Lavin doesn’t exist and/or Fowler never offered him the job, Lee should pack up and move out.

    BINGO!

  5. choppack1 05/23/2006 at 4:20 PM #

    I can understand why someone who was interested in style over substance would make overtures at Lavin. He’s kind of like a poor man’s Rick Nueheisel. I’d understand it more if we had a female AD or President – or perhaps, Fowler liked the idea of sharing the luxury box w/ Lavin’s fiance.

    I can’t say for certain that Lavin was really offered the job, but it was obvious that their was a lot of heavy petting. Part of me thinks that Lee was judging the reaction to various candidates and monitoring the response to these guys as their names were “floated.” Both Beilein and Lavin drew pretty dramatic responses. OTOH, when it got to Sidney, everybody was kind of like “Yea, I can see that.”

    Perhaps this silence was key – but did it have to go on for 30 ++ days?

  6. BJD95 05/23/2006 at 4:30 PM #

    Very interesting chop. In fact, simultaneously offering BOTH Lavin and Beilein (or being at the precipice around the same time) almost indicates a split personality disorder. Lavin is a “flash” hire, and Beilein is a groan-inducer for most fans with clear “fit” drawbacks – but a steady “winner.” I honestly don’t know ANYBODY who thought that BOTH men would be a good hire. Some thought Lavin would be a disaster (Jeff, for example), some thought Beilein would be a disaster (me, for example), and some thought BOTH were awful (I acknowledged this as a real possibility, and only supported Lavin as a lesser evil than Beilein). But both guys as reasonable choices? Only Lee Fowler, apparently.

    Lowe was clearly a better option than either one of these guys.

  7. choppack1 05/23/2006 at 4:55 PM #

    You’ve got me cracking up and you made an excellent point. You are 100% correct – I don’t think you’d find 2 more different coaches than Lavin and Beilein.

    Of course, these are the kinds of choices you have to make when the no-brainer is no longer available. And FWIW, the only no-brainers for me were Barnes, Wright, and Montgomery. Even Cal had some question marks. I’ve got to hand it to you though, you’re right, you won’t ever see 2 more different candidates than Lavin and Beilein.

  8. Jeff 05/23/2006 at 5:27 PM #

    ^What you guys are currently talking about is one of my biggest beefs with the search. (And we will discuss more in the future).

    After Calipari said no, Fowler SHOULD have been prepared (both in his pre-research and in behind the scenes positioning) to MAKE THE CALL on a Stage B candidate — Billy Gillispie, Mark Turgeon, Dennis Felton, Sidney Lowe, Gregg Marshall, Dereck Whittenburg, Frank Haith, WHOMEVER.

    That was the time. That was the inflection point. The Mike Montgomery situation that had to wait a full week after Calipari (because of the ending of the NBA season) only provided Fowler MORE OPPORTUNITY to get positioned on one of these names and execute an un-embarassing search.

    It was at this point where things turned bad. It was HERE that Fowler CHOOSE to pursue Steve Lavin and John Beilein. It was HERE where he really showed how unprepared and unqualified that he was to execute this search.

    I feel like MM was worth the wait of an extra week. So, the moment that we realized that Montgomery wasn’t going to be available, all should have been prepared for the right guy to be announced. Instead, he ran after Lavin and Beilein as opposed to Turgeon, Gillispie, Lowe, et all.

    I am not looking for reasons to criticize Fowler because it is 100% consistent with what I said at the time when I was urging people NOT to criticize him until we saw where all of this ended up. He was given a chance.

    It is NOT unsupportive of NC State if you are embarassed of the way NC State’s reputation was tarnished and harmed by Fowler’s actions in the search.

  9. pacNWPackfan 05/23/2006 at 8:39 PM #

    Some simple facts:

    -Lowe is a great hire.
    -Fowler deserves no credit for it.
    -Steve Lavin is not a basketball coach. From inside info among west coast programs: Lavin as a coach of a major program was a joke among the coaching circles when he was at UCLA. Steve Lavin know’s he’s not a coach that’s why he will remain an analyst.

    SFN: If you think Lowe is such a great hire, then why do you give Fowler credit for trying to hire Lavin and Beilein before Lowe?

  10. GoldenChain 05/24/2006 at 12:19 AM #

    This is my question to the SFN insiders: It was widely reported that in the first week after Herb resigned that many ‘high level’ coaches had actually contacted LF about the job.
    Any truth to that?
    The search looks as if we were chasing coaches rather than entertaining them.

    SFN – It is absolutely true. The initial interest in hearing more about the job “overwhelmed” Fowler…further underscoring how little Fowler thinks of the job. Names like Mike Montgomery and Tubby Smith immediately come to mind.

    One of the big problems for a guy that isn’t accustomed to doing anything but walking around (the department and social occassions), shaking hands, and being the ultimate Monday Morning Quarterback with his staff is all of the actual WORK that is involved in something like a search. Two things slowed him down: (1) He had not spent any time analyzing potential candidates and building relationships with potential candidates over the last six years and (2) He CHOSE NOT to engage any help from 3rd parties that could have saved him days of work.

    People mistakenly think that search firms are set up to “hire” a coach for you and take the responsibility off the AD. That is incorrect. Search firms have done ALL of the pre-work. They have the contracts and the buyouts of coaches. They have been in the market forever and can guide neophytes AWAY from master manipulators and let ADs know who really isn’t interested (saving tons of time). They understand how to advise you on how not to have your entire contingency (including your chancellor) busted getting off of a plane after an afternoon meeting with other coaches. Effectively, search firms have ALREADY done most of the “pre-work” that Fowler tried to do himself.

    Giving him’credit’ for hiring Lowe (which most experts would laugh at) is completely exclusive of criticism for the manner in which the search was executed (that everyone agrees was a nightmare)

  11. class of 74 05/24/2006 at 8:23 AM #

    Unprepared? Unqualified? Not according to LF! He didn’t need no stinking search firm! He is good friends with a fellow that heads a search firm and learned all he needed to know from his friend. At least that’s what the man said on local radio. Now if LF has a friend that is a doctor or dentist I wonder does he….. nah, he can’t be that stupid.

  12. Jeff 05/24/2006 at 8:30 AM #

    ^ That is fanstastically interesting because Lee Fowler was technically identified/hired BY A SEARCH FIRM AT NC STATE!!!!

    Les Robinson connected Lee to the opportunity and endorsed him and Mary Anne Fox engageed a search firm to present us candidates.

    I can only wonder if his “friend” was the same search firm that got him hired at NC State.

  13. pacNWPackfan 05/24/2006 at 11:17 AM #

    “SFN: If you think Lowe is such a great hire, then why do you give Fowler credit for trying to hire Lavin and Beilein before Lowe?”

    [SFN] I’m not sure we completely understand each other on this. But:
    I think Lowe is a great hire because I believe he has tremendous potential to succeed as the NC State basketball coach. His work with the Pistons has been impressive, they play as a team and have met with great success. Would Lowe have been my first choice, NO, are there much in the way of gurantees that the Pack will flourish under him, NO, but he came back to NC State at a time of great need and for that I can only be upbeat and grateful about. I also, like others have pointed out here, believe he understands NC State basketball (i.e. that we can and have competed at the top level of Div. I basketball and that it is NOT and should not EVER be out of our reach).

    I do NOT think Lee Fowler deserves credit for this hire quite simply because of the idiotic and torturous path we took to get to Lowe. I am happy for Mr. Fowler that he “swung” for the fences with RB and JC (the latter was risky but hey for once Fowler showed some guts), but after he failed to secure either his efforts became painfully (on a national stage) obvious as disorganized and, for lack of a better term, clueless. I mean we both courted for 7 days and offered (supposedly) Steve Lavin the head coaching position. Really I don’t think there needs to be more said. But I will – No offense to Mr. Lavin, he is a decent analyst, but as a head coach? That is a joke (a very bad one) and LF put NC State basketball right at the butt of it. I actually gained some respect for SL for turning it down and keeping his job with ESPN (Lavin knows he’s not a Div. I basketball coach). Perhaps we should offer Lavin the NC State AD postion as he appears more “plugged in” than Lee.

    I don’t think there’s a need here to hash out the debacle Fowler made of the Beilein thing. Problably the wrong choice from the start of it and certainly it was handled extremely poorly.

    To conclude I can only be happy about Sidney Lowe, but I’d be much happier if Folwer was fired.

    I have a question for you: are there any obvious downsides to firing the AD right this new hire?

  14. class of 74 05/24/2006 at 11:39 AM #

    One positive is: the business management students now have an up to date on campus example of how not to handle a management search. I’m sure LF never realized what a valuable asset he would become to all business majors.

  15. Broncommish 05/25/2006 at 3:24 PM #

    SF, I’ll take that question.

    Parting with an AD at this moment will be the best time in the athletics department, with all programs going into the slow summer period.

    Less people on campus to spread or hear false information and an adminastration that can make use of their slower period in the academic year.

    I fear though, due to all the silence since the hiring of Lowe that LF’s job status is “safe” for the time being. It stands that due to the slow period and all the stress involved in the hire that most are happy to take their annual vacations and relax. This buys Fowler more distance from any failures that occured during the search (his most challenging job in his tenure so far).

    I’m in your camp on this, LF’s record is what I base my opinion on in wanting another AD in his place. I think it comes down to the fact that I “A Die Hard Alum of NCSU Fanatic” view all that happens at NC State with every bit of my heart. In turn I guess its only fair to say that being like that, I would want those representing NC State should do the same.

    I also feel that is not fair on my part to will my passions on to others.

    So where does one find balance? It should come in the form of one who represents NC State should be passionate for the school and still also remember that it is a job too. Fowler to me sees only a job and not the school, oh he will argue that I’m sure. But he is only kidding himself.

    You only have to look at other schools to understand what that passion means, Kentucky, Notre Dame, and in our own back yard, UNC.

    UNC took one of their favored children and came close to destroying his career as a Basketball coach, granted he brought a lot of heat on himself but the firing was a cold move and a needed one to get UNC back to where they felt they belonged. Their AD was under a lot of heat but he never was questioned for his loyalty and love for UNC.

    We have had a succesion of AD’s that have hurt us greatly, so the question I pose is this (and one I have not seen brought up).

    Who would make a great AD for NCSU? The job is filled I know, but in a fantasy world who would be a great AD for State?

  16. GoldenChain 05/25/2006 at 10:52 PM #

    Where’s the next Willis Casey?!
    I hate to mention this right now but the reality is that Lee has ‘bet on cards in the deck’ (which is just one more reason I think he’s stupid).
    If something happens that Sid doesn’t finish his course work on time what happens? I would think nothing good. And I’m watching the Pistons right now and it would appear that Sid has his hands full and I would think his full attention isn’t on completing his work.
    There is always a risk in a “contingent hire” and right this minute I don’t see that our margin for error is very high.

  17. StateFans 05/30/2006 at 8:04 AM #

    ^ We were told when Sidney was hired that his course work was essentially finished and there was little/no risk in him not finishing. The wait was for the quarter/semester to officially end.

  18. redfred2 05/30/2006 at 10:17 PM #

    Don’t get me wrong, I am stoked about Sidney Lowe as the next coach. I couldn’t have asked for a better selection from my personal point of view, different timing and a new AD in place could have made everything a lot better though. I just have to laugh when I think back about harping on a old guy from Texas Tech with an undeserved, built-in stigma that would have allowed for his unquestioned dissmissal at any time. Maybe the fog would have dissipated somewhat and the options would have been a lot less complicated at some point not too far down the road. It definitely wouldn’t have hurt the current recruiting classes any worse than they already are, as some people used to dismiss my idea. I wonder if he wouldn’t have taken control of the situation a long time ago and let people know exactly where NC State stands? Could Sidney Lowe have learned anything about college basketball with a year or two under his wing like some other 29 other coaches have?

    I’ll will admit it right now in the same post, that’s beating a dead horse and even more irritating than continually reading post from those out there still defending Sendek. Oh well.

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