Why You Need to Be FIRED UP!

General Media NCS Basketball Required Reading55

Finally! Someone in the media writes a home run piece discussing reality!! And, it ended up being a self-proclaimed Tarheel? We’ll take any dose of reality that we can get. Thank, you Matt Rehm.

Today’s piece on CBS Sportsline (not written by Gregg Doyel; Don’t Feed the Troll) is a a great read.

Some Wolfpackers have jumped off the deep end after State’s ‘misses’ on Rick Barnes and John Calipari. Some have even replied to potential candidates with comments like “I’d rather have Sendek.”

That’s absurd.

Relax. Relax and enjoy. Enjoy and get excited about the future. There is so much about which to be excited right now that you are missing out on a lot of fun!! You may just need some context to understand why you should be excited (particularly if you are under the age of 30). Allow me to oblige,

I guarantee that NC State’s next basketball coach (as long as he is not named John Brady) will have a more successful tenure than that of Herb Sendek. Guaranteed.

Most people (somehow) forget that Herb Sendek coached at NC State for ten years, not only five. In recent years, far too many fans bought into the Fowler/Sendek crew’s belief that simply “making the NCAA Tournament” was THE standard by which the program should be judged. Most schools field programs to win championships. NC State fielded programs to try to place well in the ACC and make the NCAA Tournament.

This explains why State’s RPI averaged a medicore #45 over the last five seasons and why each season’s schedule was crafted in a manner to manufacture a bloated overall record and squeeze the Pack into the Tournament (where Sendek produced a mediocre5-5 record). This also explains why ten years of opportunity didn’t produce a single signature season that compared with signature seasons of any previous NC State coach not named Robinson. (If you are new here, then you would do yourself a favor by referencing the following two links: Five Straight NCAA Tournaments and RPI & ACC – The Stat Book)

Want some other guarantees? Easy. The next NC State Basketball Coach will also:

* average better than #45 in the RPI when you selectively choose his best five seasons.

* finish in the AP’s Top 25 more than a single time in a decade.

* have a better average NCAA Tournament seed when you selectively choose his best five seasons.

* have a better average ACC Tournament seed when you selectively choose his best five seasons.

* win more than five NCAA Tournament games in the next decade. In fact, if Cedric Simmons stays in Raleigh for another year I will go on record that the Pack will win more than five NCAA Tournament games in the next five seasons (a time period that Sendek played in zero NCAA Tournament games)

For a little enthusiasm about the future, I genuinely believe that fans need to take a look back to realize what NC State’s program can, and should be. This isn’t about wishing for the good old days, nor is it about glorifying the past and foolishly thinking that the world doesn’t change. But, you need to understand that there are significant differences between what true basketball PROGRAMS can achieve compared to what individual COACHES can achieve.

Are UConn Basketball and Virginia Tech football long-term “programs” because one coach in their history was able to generate success? Did Walt Hazzard and Matt Doherty’s unsuccessful reigns at UCLA and UNC indiate that those programs were not set up for future success?

Of course not.

Wolfpackers need to get excited about the future!!! NC State’s tradition, facilities, fan support, position in the ACC and historical success (1940-1990) creates a COMPLETE PROGRAM that has so many innate and inherent advantages that it will be difficult for the program NOT to be more successful in the future than it has in the last 16 years.

Fans need to never forget the accurate historical context of Herb Sendek’s decade of NC State Basketball:

* In the history of NC State Basketball, only one coach (named Les Robinson) was less successful than Herb Sendek.

* In the history of NC State Basketball, four different coaches…every coach not named Robinson or Sendek…won at aleast one ACC Championship.

* In the history of Atlantic Coast Conference Basketball, 17 coaches have been provided the opportunity to coach for at least 10 years and only one of those coaches clearly compiled a worse performance than Herb Sendek.

I am not concerned about the future of the NC State Basketball Program because of our past. Not its recent past, of course; but the long term past is a clear indicator of what the program truly can be.

NC State claims 10 ACC Championships and 2 NCAA Championship. In 1987, only 7 other programs had won more basketball games than our program. Of course things have changed significantly since then. But, the only thing that has changed has been NC State’s standards and performance, not our program’s core strengths and advantages. In fact, with the addition of the RBC Center and the Dail Practice facility our core resources have actually IMPROVED!

Only two programs have more ACC Titles than NC State; only 12 other programs have as many or more National Titles. But, NC State won those two national championships with two different coaches.

Only 7 schools in college basketball history have won multiple NCAA Titles with more than one coach.

A flash in the pan program wins a national title with one coach. A great coach can win mulitple national titles at one school. But, only GREAT PROGRAMS can win national championships with multiple coaches.

If you REALLY want to know what most experts innately understand about NC State’s program then take yourself back just a couple of days and read the pieces written when John Calipari was being considered for the job. I know that it is painful, but think about it.

Suddenly, all of the national and local media had no problem talking about what NC State could be. They were going so far as predicting what NC State was going to be. Suddenly everyone seemed to recognize that NC State was going to be a national power. Suddenly, many people were experiencing revelations that State won’t play Duke and Carolina in the NCAA Tournament unless we all make the Final Four.

This wasn’t all because of the name John Calipari. This was because of the match between Calipari and NC STATE. We may not have Calipari, but we still have one half of that equation. The media and the public were able to visualize the addition of a successful coach to what NC State’s program already has in place. If Calipari was being discussed in relation to the Clemson job? or the Virginia Tech job? or any of about 300 other jobs in Division One jobs, the visualization of the future would not have been so grandiose.

The next basketball coach at NC State will not have the name Barnes or Calipari. But, regardless of their willingness to admit it, or their ability to accurately express it – the world understands that the next basketball coach at NC State will have some amazing resources at their disposal to legitimately elevate State’s program BACK into the Top 20.

NC State has everything that is needed to be significantly more successful than Herb Sendek’s tenure of the last decade. (Everything to this point except for proactive and strong management of the program.) I just can’t believe that it took a Tarheel to help all of you feel good about the recent changes.

General Media NCS Basketball Required Reading

55 Responses to Why You Need to Be FIRED UP!

  1. Wolf4Life 04/14/2006 at 11:20 AM #

    Why settle? We should and will have top notch athletics programs in all sports

  2. NCSU4LIFE 04/14/2006 at 11:31 AM #

    How many colleges have BOTH a top notch football and basketball? Very few. When we were winning games 15-20 years ago as a top basketball program where was our football program? I just don’t think you can have both. Look at Carolina and Duke. Do they contend for the ACC title every year in football? But there basketball programs are some of the best around. Same goes for football schools such as Miami, Florida State, etc…… They are excited when the basketball program does well. However year after year they expect the football program to do well. The basketball program to these schools are just icing on the cake if they do well. If we have put as much emphasis on our basketball program as we have football over the years we probably would not be in the position we are in now. It just won’t happen. We need to make up our minds and figure out what we want most. We have NEVER had a consistant winning football program. We brought Amato in as a savior to the football program and it has not made us any better than we were before he came.

    We just need to decide as State fans which is more important to us basketball or football. Don’t get caught up in the madness of our football program competing for a BCS spot year in and year out. That will never happen.

  3. StateFans 04/14/2006 at 11:35 AM #

    Over the last 10 years, Oklahoma, Texas, Florida, Michigan, Maryland, (Orange Bowl appearance) & UCLA, Lousiville, Georgia, LSU and West Virginia have all fielded true national title contenders in both football and basketball.

    It most certainly can be done.

  4. cfpack03 04/14/2006 at 11:36 AM #

    Why settle? We should and will have top notch athletics programs in all sports

    B/c our administration doesn’t want care about achievement or being competitive . They are content making money. By scheduling easy OOC games, we spend less money. By hosted tournaments with an ‘open’ invitation to any lesser team willing to play a ‘big time’ ACC team, we receive large payments. Both of these strategies boost our W/L record, increasing our chances of NCAAT eligibility, and, simply make the program extremely profitable while being just pretty good.

  5. cfpack03 04/14/2006 at 11:37 AM #

    ^ i really should proof-read before clicking submit…

  6. VaWolf82 04/14/2006 at 11:40 AM #

    We brought Amato in as a savior to the football program and it has not made us any better than we were before he came.

    If you think that Amato hasn’t been substantially better than O’Cain, then I don’t really know what to say. There are so many differences between building a FB and BB program that we shouldn’t get bogged down here on comparisons.

    In the end, success in college sports lie directly on the head coach…regardless of the sport.

  7. StateFans 04/14/2006 at 11:46 AM #

    THIS IS NOT GOING TO TURN INTO A FOOTBALL CONVERSATION. The overall “Football / BBall” talk is related. But, granular items like “Chuck”, etc open too much opportunity to run off in tangents. Let’s move along (and please don’t whine when your comments get deleted because you haven’t read this

  8. WestCoast 04/14/2006 at 11:56 AM #

    Got it.

    But how come you simply won’t add Whitt to your canidates list? I’m not the only one wondering this, but it’s your site and you seem to want to delete any and all comments concerning Whitt?

    SFN: Not big on reading what we post? Do a little reading and looking around for our comments re: Whitt.

    We delete comments related to Whitt & Lutz because, frankly, we think that they are stupid and we don’t allow stupid comments.

  9. NCSU4LIFE 04/14/2006 at 12:03 PM #

    Oklahoma, Texas, Florida, Michigan, Maryland, (Orange Bowl appearance) & UCLA, Lousiville, Georgia, LSU

    Which of these schools year in and year out field a national title contender in BOTH football and basketball. They may field teams ever so often that are in contention for both titles but not consistantly.

    Okahoma- Football school that the majority of the time they are gonna be in contention for a football title. In basketball they DO NOT field a team that is certainly going deep in March. First thought in my mind is Barry Switzer and national titles in football.

    Florida- Rare case. Team really had the planets align for them this past March. There football program has been subpar for their standards the past few years. Stece Spurrier and Emmitt Smith are who comes to mind when I think of Florida.

    Michigan – Football program contends for the Big Ten title every year. Basketball program is nowhere near the status they were when they had the Fab Five. When you think Michigan you think about ALL the great football players and coaches.

    Maryland- Football team made the Orange Bowl but where has the basketball program been since they won a national title? Is there football program a consistant team that will get to the BCS on a regular basis? I doubt that as well. Lefty, Len Bias, Lenny Elmore, Joe Smith, etc………

    UCLA- Basketball school that has a decent football program. They play in the PAC 10 where football will always be second fiddle. Lew Alcindor, John Wooden the list goes on and on with UCLA basketball.

    Louiville- There football program is good but have they or will they ever compete for a national title? I higly doubt it unless they luck up and have a suprising out of norm year for their football program. Look at their conference? Is it a football conference? HELL NO! This is a basketball school no doubt with rich history. You don’t think of football when you think of Louisville. First name that comes to mind is Denny Crum.

    Georgia- Football school that is very good and they compete for the SEC championship on a regular basis. The basketball program is not a serious contender in the national spotlight on a regular basis. When was the last time Georgia made a final 4 where NCSU basketball desires to be? Hershel Walker, Vince Dooley when I think of GA.

    LSU- Football school no doubt. Before this years final 4 where has their basketball program been over the past few years? Since Dale Brown left they have not bad too much to brag about basketball wise. How many football LSU players and coaches can you name? What about basketball? Pistol Pete and Shaq come to mind for me.

    I would rather have our basketball program where it was and should be with cosistant runs in March and settle for a football team that once every few years makes a run at the ACC title.

  10. WestCoast 04/14/2006 at 12:12 PM #

    I guess we’ll agree to disagree. It’s your site, I understand that. None the less, I think you guys are doing a fine job keeping us informed, etc.

  11. NCStateDude92 04/14/2006 at 12:12 PM #

    georgia does not field a national contender basketball team every year, are you kidding me?

    SFN: Who said “every year”? Read. Listen. Comprehend. Don’t assume.

  12. Mr O 04/14/2006 at 12:26 PM #

    Speaking of Georgia, I had mentioned Dennis Felton has a possiblity last week on another site. I had not seen him listed by Packpride.

    He has already been in battles with his AD over lack of support for basketball. IMO, if he hadn’t taken the Georgia job then he would be a top mid-major candidate for our position. He has done pretty well at Georgia, but obviously his star isn’t shining as brightly as it once was. He has recruited well so far at Georgia and they have been better than expected so far. The Atlanta metro area produces a lot of talented HS players.

    IMO, Felton is someone that should be considered. He would love to be at a school where the basketball program is supported like it is at NC State.

  13. hoop 04/14/2006 at 12:32 PM #

    CBS is still showing Doyel’s article “What’s the problem?” on their front page even though it’s from TWO DAYS AGO! Meanwhile, the positive on the Wolfpack entitled “Starting with coach, Wolfpack can definitely do better”, dated TODAY by Matt Rehm is only available as a tiny link under “Related links.” WTF!!!!!

  14. gumbydammit 04/14/2006 at 12:36 PM #

    What about Bruce Webber? If you’re going to go for first rate coaches, he has to be on the list. And the WSJ table indicates that he’s not getting paid like an A list coach…

    SFN: Reaching. Sounds like throwing darts at a board

  15. Mr O 04/14/2006 at 12:46 PM #

    That was supposed to say that I saw Felton listed by Statefansnation. I was trying to give you guys credit for mentioning him when nobody else had brought his name up.

  16. aGirl 04/14/2006 at 1:05 PM #

    BTW,
    “It is what it is.” is attributed to Rummy.

  17. Tau837 04/14/2006 at 1:35 PM #

    I like this post and the referenced article. Nice job.

    You make a point that winning multiple national championships with multiple coaches as being more impressive than winning multiple titles with a single coach. I don’t disagree with your point, but there is a special case that wouldn’t really be more impressive–winning in the new coach’s first year, with the old coach’s players, particularly if the new coach was on the old coach’s staff.

    For example, in 1998 UNC reached the Final Four in Guthridge’s first year. Had they won, would that have been more impressive because Guthridge was the head coach instead of Smith? How about when Tubby Smith won in his seond year at Kentucky, two years after Pitino won? Was that really more impressive because it was Tubby instead of Pitino? Was that truly Tubby’s team by then?

    Anyway, I liked the post. Keep up the good work.

  18. NCSU91 04/14/2006 at 1:45 PM #

    A thought or two about history, tradition, and success.
    There has been a lot of discussion here and many other places with regards to NCSU’s position in the world of college BB. Rehm’s article, as well as Doyle’s attack piece both seem to tie the past, present, and future together in a way that just does not make sense to me.

    While I would agree with most others here that we have a great tradition and the right to consider our program as one of the great programs historically, to me, the past has almost nothing to do with the future. Our great tradition did not prevent the slide of the last 15 years, and the slide last 15 years does not necessarily mean that we cannot again strive to be one of the greatest programs in the country.

    To be great in sports, and most other endeavors that I can think of, there are two key ingredients: resources and leadership. We obviously have all of the required resources at NCSU to be successful at the highest level. Money has been available to build world class facilities and there is obviously enough money (2 mill / yr) to hire a top-flight coach. What we desperatley need is leadership. I’m not saying that tradition is unimportant, only that if you have world-class leadership combined with the necessary financial resources, any school can be a winner.

  19. VaWolf82 04/14/2006 at 1:47 PM #

    One potential problem that I see is State fans getting emotionally attached to coaches that may never come to Raleigh….or bashing coaches that might. Neither extreme is healthy if it leads to sour grapes once a coach is hired.

    Regardless of how big a reputation the next coach has…he deserves to be judged based on his results in Raleigh…and nothing else should matter.

    UVA replaced Jeff Jones (who went to the Final Four), with Pete Gillen..who only won one or two post-season games (ACCT, NIT, or NCAAT) in his entire tenure. However, it serves no purpose to worry about ending up with another “Pete”. Let’s not cross that bridge until we have to.

  20. packfan80 04/14/2006 at 2:02 PM #

    “Regardless of how big a reputation the next coach has…he deserves to be judged based on his results in Raleigh…and nothing else should matter. ”
    But doesnt past performance have alot to do with getting hired in the first place?

  21. 90red 04/14/2006 at 2:03 PM #

    I am freaking tired of hearing how State, when we are winning, is cheating. Can anyone in detail explain how bad it was at the end of Valvano’s tenure. I know graduation rates were not that good (gee that never happens anywhere else) but what other huge violations were there that happened?

  22. RAWFS 04/14/2006 at 2:18 PM #

    90red,

    Go and read “The Gave Me a Lifetime Contract…” by Jim Valvano and read his take on the whole deal.

    As for Tubby, there is a certain aspect of coaching called scouting, game-planning and game coaching that counts for something. Yes, they were Pitino’s recruits. But Tubby didn’t exactly roll a ball out on the practice court and go watch TV. He did a good job guiding that team through the season and the NCAAs.

  23. VaWolf82 04/14/2006 at 2:27 PM #

    But doesnt past performance have alot to do with getting hired in the first place?

    Let’s hope so. 😉

    What I meant was that people have spoken out against the accomplishemts of Haith, Gilleispie, Lavin, and others. If we end up with one of these, we should at least give him the benefit of the doubt and see what he can do in Raleigh.

  24. ShootingGuard 04/14/2006 at 2:59 PM #

    I can’t believe how many TARHEEL fans I have run into who are actually ROOTING for us to get Barnes or Calipari or someone who would make a big splash. That says it all, really. These people actually remember the 60’s, 70’s, & 80’s when Duke, UNC, AND State ALL had their moments. REAL UNC fans remember how GREAT that Dudley Bradley steal & dunk FELT just as REAL State fans remember how TERRIBLE that moment felt. REAL State fans remember how GREAT that 1987 ACC Tourney upset FELT while REAL UNC fans remember how TERRIBLE that loss FELT. That’s called LIVING the rivalry!! Facing UNC during the Herb years FELT like the Olympics after the USSR crumbled and the US vs USSR rivalry was gone—NO LIFE to it. I miss the Olympic battles with the USSR and barely watch the Olympics now, and, with the possibility of a new coach at State, I think Tarheel fans are starting to remember how State-UNC used to be and actually desire to see it, FEEL it, and LIVE it again…(I’m not sure MY heart can take another Dudley Bradley moment, though.)

  25. StateFans 04/14/2006 at 3:21 PM #

    It is not much fun to have a rival that you pity. Takes some of the joy out of victories.

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