Re: Haith…The ACC Problem?

You really need to read the previous entry from earlier today before reading my comments.

The Atlantic Coast Conference has traditionally had a “gentlemen’s agreement” that league members would not poach coaches from each other’s programs. The conference office has traditionally played a role in maintaining order around this issue. Therefore, SFN can foresee the ACC playing a negative role in NC State’s potential conversations with Burlington native, Frank Haith.

The following are some comments about this:

* While I understand the implications of this old-boy way of doing things, it is time for the Atlantic Coast Conference to enter the modern-ages. The ACC once had seven teams; the conference now has twelve. Things change ;and the “old way of doing things rules” should have evolved with them.

* Any hurdle that the conference office would raise during a potential Frank Haith hiring would be grossly hypocritcal. By expanding in the manner that the conference did a few years ago, the conference implicitly and explicitly admitted that some schools are more “football-centric” and some are more “basketball-centric”. If that wasn’t the case, then why didn’t the ACC try to land Kentucky, Louisville, and Syracuse? (hyperbole folks, you get the picture)

* By their actions and comments, the conference both acknowledges and and has created an obvious caste system amongst its members — some schools are obvious football powers and some schools are obvious basketball powers. The conference’s creation and support of such an imbalance means that they should be very careful with immobilizing coaches who succeed and therefore want to improve their situation.

* Since the ACC acknowledges this, then why would they choose to send such a negative message to the rest of the country regarding future employment in the conference? Limiting coaches’ careers will only serve to HURT the ACC by making jobs like Miami, Clemson, Florida State, and Virginia Tech less attractive to future coaches contemplating a move into the conference . It is called the free market.

* Why would an “up-and-comer” ever choose one of these schools if they may potentially be considered for a job at State, Carolina, Duke or Maryland? Why would the ACC make decisions that would effectively discourage the future migration of great coaches to the lower-tiered basketball schools? How does impairing the ability to attract top talent to the conference (especially to the weaker programs) serve the ACC’s supposed goal to protect its members and act in everyone’s best interest?

* Let’s play a hypothetical game — What if Gregg Marshall at Winthrop knew that he was going to be a candidate for a hypothetical “dream job” at Duke in five years? What if he was on the top of the list at Miami or Clemson or VPI? Why would he want to come to one of those ACC schools to coach if it would impair his ability to better himself? Is the ACC now “better off” by not helping the weaker schools get the best talent that they can get (for whatever time that they can retain them in the free-market?

* Is the ACC not better off because of Frank Haith’s presence at Miami the last couple of years? Would Haith have ever gone to Miami if he had been told that he was going to have the chance to take the NC State job in the future? Again, how is limiting the basic principals of the free market good for the ACC?

* The ACC needs to make sure that all schools have the freedom to hire the best person for the job to support those programs. This is what is best for the conference! Not protectionism that prices the conference out of the free market for talent!!

* Look at how the SEC benefited when Tommy Tuberville made a move from Ole Miss to an obviously stronger football program at Auburn, and when Tubby Smith left Georgia for the national powerhouse of Kentucky. The alternative, of course, would have been for Tuberville and Smith leave the conference. How is that a good thing for the SEC? Would the SEC rather have had Tuberville and Smith LEAVE and therefore not generate the National Championships for the conference that they ultimately won at their NEW programs? What if Tubby had to move on to NC State and Tuberville to Georgia Tech to take the “next steps” in their career? How would the SEC have liked that?

* Ten years ago, Rick Barnes was the head coach of Clemson and wanted the NC State job. Nobody had the guts to stand up and do what was right for NC State. The ACC’s “gentlemen’s agreement” of not poaching ultimately impaired NC State’s ability & willingness to pursue Barnes and impaired Barnes’ ability to improve his career standing. Ultimately, Barnes’ career was limited and he choose to ride out of the conference to another job. How did that work out for everyone? Are you telling me that the ACC is better off without Rick Barnes the last decade? In the end, the conference ultimately lost a rising coaching star while simultaneously dooming NC State to another ten years in the desert. Clemson lost. NC State lost. How was this a good thing for the ACC?

* We hope/expect NC State to respectively tell the ACC to shove it IF Frank Haith is deemed “the guy”. We aren’t endorsing Frank Haith as “the guy”; but if that is who the administration chooses to pursue, then they should be allowed to work in the free market. We will with-hold more comments here until we have to make them.

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83 Responses to Re: Haith…The ACC Problem?

  1. gotohellcarolina 04/13/2006 at 11:37 PM #

    I am impressed with Gillepie as a competitor, and he obviously used the slowdown to limit competitors attempts.

    Hey 4Life, What offense did Utep run when he had the horses?

  2. Wolf4Life 04/13/2006 at 11:40 PM #

    Eight schools could lose scholarships due to poor academic results
    http://www.sportsline.com/general/story/9375494
    Interesting that ARIZONA STATE and TEXAS A&M are both on the list

  3. Jeff 04/14/2006 at 9:59 AM #

    Haith’s 2005 recruiting class was ranked No. 12 nationally by Scout.com and this year’s class includes two 4-star and two 3-star players.

    The Hurricanes already have a commitment for the class of 2007 from Edwin Rios, regarded as one of the top five point guards in the class by Scout.com.

    What else do you want from a recruiting perspective?

    You ever BEEN to a game at Miami?

  4. Par Shooter 04/14/2006 at 10:49 AM #

    Personally, I really like Haith above all other known candidates at this point. As far as a “gentleman’s agreement” that is laughable. As evidenced by the ACC’s expansion and how that whole deal went down, college athletics is big business and things like “honor” are certainly lost on the ACC office. Ask the Big East about “gentlemen’s agreements” regarding the ACC and you’d likely get laughed at. It would be incredibly hypocritical for anyone in the ACC office to bellyache about someone poaching within the league considering how we poached 3 of the BE’s member institutions. Since Swofford, et al, are in fact hypocrites they may say something but I’ll be damned if anyone at NC State should be the least bit concerned about it if they believe Haith is the best available option.

  5. Heels Perspective 04/14/2006 at 11:10 AM #

    Jeff,

    Was your article referring to John Swofford?

  6. packfan80 04/14/2006 at 1:59 PM #

    Any hurdle that the conference office would raise during a potential Frank Haith hiring would be grossly hypocritcal…

    amen, any porblems with going after haith is absurd.

  7. ShootingGuard 04/14/2006 at 2:13 PM #

    As far as the “gentleman’s agreement” goes, the ACC can’t ethically say a damn thing about us potentially improving our situation at the “expense” of one of our conference programs…Just look at the way the ACC promotes Duke and UNC above all other programs in our conference through TV scheduling, scheduling for the ACC/Big10 Challenge, etc…That sure as hell makes it a tougher road for the rest of us, climbing up that Duke-UNC promotional hill every year…On the flip side, that’s capitalism, Duke and UNC are the biggest money makers, so the ACC can justify that promotion to some degree and say that, with the revenue sharing arrangement, Duke and UNC’s success benefits us all. Great, so in the same light, the ACC SHOULD be able to justify that it is in the best interest of the conference to back a program that has 2 NCAA Titles, 3 Final Fours, several Elite 8’s & S16’s, etc. compared to a program like Miami’s since each round of the NCAA tournament pays big bucks to us all. Otherwise, the ACC can stop their hypocritical promotion of Duke-UNC!!

    As far as Haith goes, he is doing a very good job compared to what Miami has to offer as far as the arena, fan support, financial resources, etc. Sure, the school is not too bad, and South Beach has the babes for sure, but much of Miami is a total dump filled with crime. Just walk to the Orange Bowl sometime, if you dare…

    Beyond X’s & O’s, the key for a new hire to really succeed is a quick start and early recruiting success. Haith coached a downtrodden Miami program to 7 wins in each of their 1st 2 seasons in the ACC (which Herb definitely didn’t exceed in his first 2 yrs or year number 9 for that matter). So, I don’t see how we can do worse with him coaching wise. A reason to believe that he could do better is that he would likely have a better shot than others we are looking at (besides longshot Jay Wright) for bringing Chris Wright and Jamelle McMillan back into the fold. If not, Edwin Rios committed verbally to Haith (just like Wright did to Herb), so Rios is free to follow Haith, and likely would. Having a top pt guard in place—or bringing one with you—is a great way to improve your chances for success, just ask Dave Leito (who had Sean Singletary) or Herb Sendek (who NEVER had or brought in a top flight point guard over a 10 yr period—where would Herb or the program be if he had done so early instead of whiffing everytime??).

  8. [waves] 04/15/2006 at 6:31 PM #

    Haith beat Ol’ Roy in the Dome! 😉

    But Herb calling for a 1-3-1 trap on the last play againt VaTech is NOT something I see Haith doing.

    But can the ACC legally enforce a ‘agreement?’ If not, well, @#$% off!

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