Stick To Basketball, Dukies

Irony, thy name is Duke Basketball Report.

In a spittle-flying screed entitled “Cheap Shot From A Cheap Site,� the DBR fulminates over the Giant comparing the Atlantic Coast Conference to France (our alma mater), England, (UNC), and Germany (Duke) – the last of which I describe as the new strength arising under a malevolent leader.

“But, but, but… Coach K is the son of Polish immigrants,� sputter the outraged Dukies. And the awful Giant, they say, has compared Coach K to HITLER… “Just an incredibly thoughtless, ignorant, and uneducated thing to say.� It’s true, they say – if you can’t go to college, go to State.
Does SFN, they rave, have no sense of history?

Actually, yes we do, and somewhat more of one (by all appearances) than the nerdish jock-sniffers who populate the DBR. The Giant’s often pondered that the supposed “superior education� offered at Ivy League wannabes like Duke is somewhat dubious when the rubber hits the road. The DBR’s March 21 hack job on the Giant’s jocular little column certainly adds grist to that mill.

You see, as anyone who’s taken a reputable European history course can attest, the DBR’s talking through its hat with this rant. The classic European struggle for power between England, France, and Germany reached its essence between 1870 (the end of the Franco-Prussian War, when Germany was created) and 1914’s “Guns of August,� which signaled the start of what became World War One. During that period, a new and resurgent German Empire arose from a collection of fairly fragmented states into a military and political juggernaut that soon supplanted France as the powerhouse of continental Europe. Sort of the way, you know, Duke supplanted State basketball in the ACC.

And Germany enjoyed this rise under the malevolent (to those who, well, didn’t want to be German) leadership of – Chancellor Otto Von Bismarck, the “Iron Chancellor,� a master geopolitical strategist, who incidentally never abused a Pole in his life. And it was Bismarck, not Hitler, to whom the Giant was comparing Coach K. Not the nicest guy to his enemies, Otto, but you have to give the man credit for genius – as the Giant was crediting Coach K.

“Mein Gott – Dukies Schiesskopfs Ist!”

I suggest remedial reading in the form of Robert K. Massie’s “Dreadnought,� which explains all of this – assuming mein Kameraden at the DBR can put down the latest recycled John Feinstein dreck long enough to learn some history.

http://www.carnegiecouncil.org/images/massie_cover.gif

Now, precisely who needs to go to college again?

General

109 Responses to Stick To Basketball, Dukies

  1. JOE 03/21/2006 at 10:43 AM #

    It’s easy to read a vague reference to “malevolent leader” as Hitler given the fixation our nation has on the guy. Espeially given the fact that there are pitures of Coach K with a Hitler ‘stash floating around the net – i think started by the Terps.

    Your vague referece and then backtrack reads like a rhetoric trap where one tries to prove themselves smarter than another conversant by nitpicking a point “Not THAT malevolvent German leader, sily” and then diving into an explanation that “may be over your head” so “here is some remedial reading”

    Honestly, you expected everyone reading this to go “malevolent German leader? Oh, von Bismark. How true! and clever!” Herd to believe.

    It was alow blow at a program and a person who has repescted your school and your coaches. you should apologize for the ambiguity, rather than respond with your pompous ire. keep that directed atyur oach, whic is what you seem to do best.

  2. David 03/21/2006 at 10:50 AM #

    Didn’t say you should care. I don’t care about the article much myself. What I do think is ridiculous is how outraged a few people seem to be that DBR interpreted it as a Hitler reference.

  3. TVP 03/21/2006 at 10:51 AM #

    Tell you what DBR: SFN can apologize for this when you apologize for your classless remarks about David Thompson and Tom Burleson. Deal?

  4. JOE2 03/21/2006 at 10:56 AM #

    I have to agree with Joe. To say “malevolent leader” in Germany immediately draws reference to the Nazi regime (which although a flash in the pan was more than six years. I believe Hitler’s emergence started in the early 1930’s so ran at least a decade).

    Also, Germany’s emergence in continental Europe was done as Kaiser Wilhelm drew the individual states together. He used the PRUSSIAN army led by Bismark, but it was Wilhelm that consolidated the power, and then, in a Hitler-esque move, got a too big for his britches and pushed Bismark to the wings.

    Back to the point though. Joe hits the nail on the head describing the rhetoric trap that was written. Actually, Bismark was not so much a malevolent leader as he was a martial military leader. He certainly was no Hitler or Ivan the Terrible.

  5. Cardiff Giant 03/21/2006 at 11:02 AM #

    Sometimes, when whiners fail to cease their whining, you just have to say, “get over it, whiner.” This becomes one of those times.

  6. chris 03/21/2006 at 11:25 AM #

    Even if you guys get rid of sendek, you’ll hire some idiot like amato that can’t keep kids from commiting jr. high penaltys. Ouch, that hurt a little.

  7. ushum 03/21/2006 at 11:27 AM #

    learn to spell… then you have the right to call someone an idiot…

  8. ThePack 03/21/2006 at 11:32 AM #

    hold up…duke has a football team? what???

  9. ThePack 03/21/2006 at 11:35 AM #

    what makes me “lol” is the fact that everyone included is seemingly getting his/her panties in a twist because of this. get over it

  10. Jason Nupe 03/21/2006 at 11:38 AM #

    We are deleting all “responses” from howler monkeys on this thread, the deleted post here being a perfect example of that. Continue to post; we will continue to delete. It’s not “gutless” to scrape gum off of your shoe on a hot day; so it goes with the howler monkey posts.

  11. chris 03/21/2006 at 11:41 AM #

    How many National championships does State have in football? Since 1953, Duke has 8 ACC championships, I think some of those shared. State has 6, a couple of those shared. We also have the last one in 89. So I don’t know where to go with this.

  12. Cardiff Giant 03/21/2006 at 11:42 AM #

    “Also, Germany’s emergence in continental Europe was done as Kaiser Wilhelm drew the individual states together. He used the PRUSSIAN army led by Bismark, but it was Wilhelm that consolidated the power, and then, in a Hitler-esque move, got a too big for his britches and pushed Bismark to the wings.”

    Joe, which Wilhelm do you refer to here? If you refer to the Wilhelm that abdicated at the close of WWI, that is not correct., at least not wholly. Power was consolidated, by Bismarck primarily, before Wilhelm took the throne. Then Bismarck was dismissed when he warned Wilhelm against dumb stuff once too often – with the results we know.

    And Joe, the six years referred to the length of WWII. I concede it would probably be better to mark the length of that regime as 12 years, 1933-1945.

  13. ThePack 03/21/2006 at 11:43 AM #

    Amato says hey to Steve Spurrier, oh wait, its not 1989 anymore. Guess that was the last time you guys had a real football team.

  14. Duke92 03/21/2006 at 11:47 AM #

    Goodness, someone throws out a reference to the rise of Germany under a malevolent leader, without any timeframe reference, and is then shocked–shocked!!–to find that anyone would suspect that the reference is to Hitler. (And never mind the fact that history has not judged Bismarck to be particularly malevolent, although if you’re adopting the French point of view, I’ll grant that he definitely wasn’t good for France’s power in Europe.)

    The level of discourse on this site (i.e., Dook fans work in mail rooms! hahaha) has done a great deal to disabuse me of my long-held belief that State fans are a classy, knowledgeable bunch. Congrats on the short-term bump in your traffic, go enjoy the spring air now that your next two weekends will be basketball-free, and good luck keeping Coach Sendek for a long, long time!

  15. beowolf 03/21/2006 at 11:51 AM #

    The intellectually honest position to take here, DBR and acolytes, would be to say something along the lines of:

    “We assumed from Cardiff’s use of the phrase ‘leadership of a malevolent leader’ in reference to Germany that he meant Hitler. That is an understandable assumption to make; however, Cardiff has explained that his reference was to Bismark. So our assumption, however reasonable, was wrong.”

    If you choose to dig in your heels and insist that the reason of the piece was to equate K with Hitler, irrespective of Cardiff’s explanation, you do so out of spite, a willingness to assume the worst, and more importantly, to the mockery of your own web site and education.

  16. ThePack 03/21/2006 at 11:54 AM #

    Duke92 – you are doing the same thing you are accussing state fans of doing. Judging all state fans as unclassy is well an unclassy move as well.

  17. Cardiff Giant 03/21/2006 at 11:55 AM #

    “i.e., Dook fans work in mail rooms! hahaha)”

    If memory serves, the gentleman who runs DBR did not go to Duke. If you are as familiar with State fans as your post implies, you are certainly aware that Duke has far more Wal-mart adherents in this area – probably by a factor of twenty – than it does actual alumni. Or do you disagree?

    And obviously for the purposes of the spoof I was adopting the French point of view.

  18. VTPACKFAN 03/21/2006 at 12:07 PM #

    History lessons and Duke basketball, something isn’t right here. Oh yeah, it should be a lesson in Sociology, right.

  19. TVP 03/21/2006 at 12:07 PM #

    Interesting that there is no comment function on the DBR website…

  20. Duke92 03/21/2006 at 12:13 PM #

    ThePack, you have a point. State fans on THIS site (or to be more specofic, in this thread) do not appear to be the best of the bunch. I’m so sorry that that narrowed response still … um … well, includes you. Please note also that my comment was not absolute–I merely stated that the level of discourse does not reflect well on the State fans who are here. That does not amount to “[j]udging all [S]tate fans,” which is the position that you wrongly ascribe to me.

    Cardiff Giant, DBR is a triumvirate, and all three either went to Duke or have longstanding family ties to Duke. That said, I do not necessarily agree that alumni/former student status is necessary to be a fan of a school, and I find it somewhat ironic that you cannot decide whether to sneer at Duke fans for being elitist, or to sneer at them for being “Wal-mart” fans, a term that you don’t define but that certainly doesn’t appear to be a favorable socioeconomic commentary.

    My personal opinion is that you are far more interested in playing esoteric games of gotcha (paraphrasing: “I meant Bismarck! Dookies are stoopid!”) and being a flame-thrower (“nerdish jock-sniffers”) than engaging in rational discussions with opposing fans. You seem to want to preach to your choir, and them alone, so I’ll leave you to it.

  21. ThePack 03/21/2006 at 12:13 PM #

    Jason, why do you care so much about this topic in the first place? has it caused you any personal harm? has it caused coach k harm? i really doubt it has. for you to come here and call other people weak, dumb, etc is dumb in the first place.

    I could personally care less about this topic but it pains me to see people getting all worked up for nothing.

    I just don’t get it.

  22. Cardiff Giant 03/21/2006 at 12:20 PM #

    Duke92, I wrote what I considered to be a jocular (pardon the pun) column about our status in the ACC. Then, DBR, for reasons of its own, posted a blatant flame. I merely retaliated in kind.

    I think “longstanding family ties to Duke” pretty much is the same as “didn’t go to Duke.” Moreover, again, I did not start the school-directed flaming.

    And you are correct re being, at times, unable to decide re Duke fans. Many are nice people. Some are elitist. And quite a few are Wal-marters whose only connection with Duke is buying a hat. Those are the ones who pull for, say Miami in the fall. You know this is true, don’t you?

    “My personal opinion is that you are far more interested in playing esoteric games of gotcha (paraphrasing: “I meant Bismarck! Dookies are stoopid!â€?) and being a flame-thrower (â€?nerdish jock-sniffersâ€?) than engaging in rational discussions with opposing fans. You seem to want to preach to your choir, and them alone, so I’ll leave you to it.”

    So I understand, DBR’s original response to the Sacre Bleu column was something OTHER than acting as a flame-thrower?

  23. Jim 03/21/2006 at 12:20 PM #

    But everyone knows that K does actually look a little like Hitler, which the DBR obviously knows (at least subconsciously) or they wouldn’t have taken such offense. You can’t ignore that particular elephant in the corner, as it were.

    “I don’t consider myself a basketball coach. I consider myself a Christ figure who happens to coach basketball.”

  24. ThePack 03/21/2006 at 12:21 PM #

    Duke92,

    As much as you want me to, I will not be as petty as you and start calling other people names. Such things are a waste of time and doesn’t get us anywhere.

  25. Cardiff Giant 03/21/2006 at 12:23 PM #

    “But everyone knows that K does actually look a little like Hitler, which the DBR obviously knows (at least subconsciously) or they wouldn’t have taken such offense. You can’t ignore that particular elephant in the corner, as it were.”

    You know, believe it or not, I honestly never thought of that.

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