Duke Won’t Be Perfect

As one of our most favorite bloggers highlights tonight, Duke is not going 16-0 and Florida State is not going to the NIT.

I’d like to discuss the Blue Devils for a moment in an attempt to put an NC State ‘spin’ on this topic for a second.

In the various debates amongst Wolfpackers, one of the primary mantras of the NC State Excuse Squad is that it is perfectly acceptable for NC State to continuously lose to Duke in basketball “since Duke is so good and since everyone loses to Duke.” Of course, these general statements conveniently ignore any use of statistics or information to accurately compare NC State’s rate of losing with “everyone elses”.

Seriously, since “everybody loses to Duke” is the generally accepted original thought of the day consistently proposed by the excuse-mongers, then surely State’s record vs Duke is as bad as everyone else’s whom we claim to be “competitive” against? Actually, since many State fans claim to have a better program than so many of our ACC bretheren, then shouldn’t our record against Duke be at least little better than everyone else’s record?

Did you know that North Carolina, Maryland, Wake Forest, and Florida State have won more games against Duke in the regular season than NC State has in the Herb Sendek era? Even lowly Virginia (who has employed three different coaches in that time frame) has as many regular season wins vs the Blue Devils as NC State (2 wins). Both Clemson and Georgia Tech are only one game behind the Pack and Cavs. (Note: Clemson had a 4-1 record vs Duke over a couple of year period when Rick Barnes was coaching at Clemson.)

So, in the Herb Sendek decade, NC State ranks next to last in the ACC in number of regular season wins vs Duke.

NC State won an ACC Tournament game vs the Blue Devils in Herb Sendek’s first season (1996-1997). This boosts the Pack’s total win count vs Duke in the last 10 years to 3. Unfortunately, State has lost a disproportionate number of ACC Tournament games vs Duke in the ACC (total of 5), dropping State’s total record vs the Devils in the Herb Sendek era to 3-21 (12.5%).

Since no other team in the ACC has played Duke as much as State in the ACC Tournament, then only Clemson and Georgia Tech have winning percentages below that of NC State in the Herb Sendek era.

BUT…surely everyone in Wolfpack nation knows has heard that things are going to get better if you only have some patience. You just wait until next year…or the next. It will happen if we just close our eyes and hope long enough. Perhaps even your children may be alive when it does.

General NCS Basketball

60 Responses to Duke Won’t Be Perfect

  1. PACDADDY 03/02/2006 at 11:12 PM #

    ^Are you talking about the ACC VA?…I’d like to see your list of “alot” of coaches. ACC is different than any other conference in the NCAA…so I don’t want to hear about Bruce Pearl and the powerful SEC. “done a whole lot more”…who…Odom and GW…I don’t think that’s alot and Odom couldn’t capitalize of 2 straight ACC championships, while GW must have forgotten how to coach after the NCAA championship.

    Players make these coaches great…sure…bad coaches can ruin a program, but great players make great coaches.

  2. PACDADDY 03/02/2006 at 11:34 PM #

    Sammy…I’m not sure if you’re aware, but the Duke team Barnes beat was against Gaudet…not K…then he beat a Duke team(that lost 4 in a row after the loss to Clemson) the same season that Herb beat in ACC T…also the same Duke team that lost in first round in NCAA to Eastern Michigan.

    The next season he did beat a good Duke team in OT in Clemson.

    Look…I’m a Rick Barnes fan, but rationalization goes both ways. If Herb can’t get credit for beating UNC(DOH), I’m not sure it’s fair for this board to tout wins for Barnes w/o at least pointing out that little fact…At least I acknowledge the difference between Roy and DOH.

    Jeff..don’t you agree? During those 3 seasons was one of the worst spans for Duke since K began his rise in late 80’s.

  3. packbackers 03/03/2006 at 12:00 AM #

    Jeff, why do you allow people on this site to call our coach “Herb Sendick”, but you won’t allow me to call the Texas Longhorns coach “Prick Barnes”? Please explain.

  4. Sammy Kent 03/03/2006 at 8:49 AM #

    You gentlemen are wrong about Barnes’ win against Dook in his first ACC game. Pete Gaudet was not coaching that team yet. Khrushchev was still on the sidelines. He didn’t take his leave from the team until after that game. The team was 9-3, 0-1 when Gaudet took over. Everything I said about that game was 100% true.

    Boys and girls, I’m glad though you brought this up, because that very season demonstrates more emphatically than anything the difference a coach makes. Nobody that knows anything about basketball thinks that team sucked, or thinks that Coach K would have been anywhere near the 2-14 record they ended with. That team had Jeff Capel, Trajan Langdon, Steve Wojciechowski, Ricky Price, and Cherokee Parks. That team averaged 75 points per game. That team took UNC-CH to 2OTs before losing 102-100. That team lost a boatload of games by five points or less. That was COACHING. That was Pete Gaudet. That’s the difference between a man that can motivate, excite, and lead and one that cannot. I’ve always found it remarkable that the only coach Dookie V ever lauded for “doing such a tremendous job” more than Herb Sendek was Pete Gaudet. I didn’t find it at all remarkable that the first thing Mike Krzyzewski did when he came back to his old job was fire Pete Gaudet.

  5. Mr O 03/03/2006 at 11:03 AM #

    When I saw the end of the game, I knew this blog entry was coming.

  6. topOtheorder 03/03/2006 at 11:53 AM #

    Someone can call me a “sunshiner” or an “HSSS” or “mediocre” or an “excuse maker” if they want…

    But, everything in the sports universe doe NOT have to be referendum on Sendek.

    I hate Sendek’s record vs Duke and UNC. I hate losing to them, as my late night posts after the UNC debacle surely show—I could not sleep that night I was so pissed off…

    But, I really don’t give a DAMN what FSU’s record is vs Duke or UNC. It is also !@#$%^ ridiculous that, after we SPANK FSU for the nth time out of N tries, that there is NO blog since it would not fit into the Herb Sucks Theme, but we DO have a blog on Statefansnation following Duke’s game with FSU…After UVA beats UNC up at Sleep Hollow, there is a blog anointing Leito as God, but no mention of the great Leito’s 40 pt loss to UNC with NCAA hopes on the line since it certainly would not fit into the Herb Sucks Theme… Etc

    Maybe Duke and UNC just bring it more when they are playing against the REDNECKS they perceive at NC State…I mean, one of our players called JJ a fag and our fans had fag posters for him, do you think he might want to beat us pretty badly?? Our fans yelled STD at Rashad, and I think he gave us a little extra when he went off on our asses!! I don’t remember hearing about Roy Williams telling UNC fans not to sell their tickets to UVA fans or yelling at his players not to lose their rivalry game with UVA like he did with us…

    The rivalry is still there for JJ, Rashad, David Noel, and Roy Williams…and we are NOT holding up our end of the bargain!! CASE CLOSED!! Herb sucks in this rivalry!! CASE CLOSED!! Rick Barnes would bring FIRE back to this rivalry!! CASE CLOSED!!

    Hasn’t all of this been established time and time again?? Do we really need a blog everyday saying the same thing?? I mean, the next time Gonzaga beats Pepperdine, could there possibly be some tie-in to Sendek sucking, State sucking vs UNC & Duke, and Rick Barnes being the man??

    I mean, damn, I root for Rick Barnes to the win the NCAA Title every year, so he will finish what he was gunning for at Texas and—if Herb FINALLY gets ousted—Barnes could jump right in, fitting perfectly with the fanbase, uniting the factions, etc and hopefully add some banners at State!! But, until that happens, do we really need a million blogs to hammer a point home that was hammered in long ago??

  7. Jeff 03/03/2006 at 12:11 PM #

    When I saw the end of the game, I knew this blog entry was coming.

    Is that an indictment of the blog…or of the performance of the team?

    Pacdaddy, I apologize if anyone has ever called Herb by the name of Sendick. Please highlight these instances and we will definitely fix.

  8. VaWolf82 03/03/2006 at 1:03 PM #

    But, I really don’t give a DAMN what FSU’s record is vs Duke or UNC. It is also !@#$%^ ridiculous that, after we SPANK FSU for the nth time out of N tries, that there is NO blog since it would not fit into the Herb Sucks Theme, but we DO have a blog on Statefansnation following Duke’s game with FSU…

    Surely you see the difference between State (or anyone) beating FSU (or anyone) that is not an upset……and someone beating the two teams that some State fans claim that we can’t ever hope to be competitive with.

    It’s not all about Herb….alot of entries are directed at State fans who are living in an alternate universe where wins and the losses don’t mean anything….where an excuse is just as good as a win. At least that’s the way I interpreted Jeff’s entry.

  9. Jeff 03/03/2006 at 1:20 PM #

    How cool would it be if topoftheorder would just read the entries for what they are as opposed to attaching his personal beliefs of what he thinks others are secretly saying in the entries.

    I’ve said Billie Gillispie is “the man” more on this blog than I have Rick Barnes is. I’ve never said “Herb Sucks”. Etc, Etc.

    I often get curious why I get ‘blamed’ for the ‘negativism’ of other people’s conclusions when they come to the conclusions on their own?

  10. topOtheorder 03/03/2006 at 2:44 PM #

    VaWolf,

    I WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree with yours, Jeff’s, and everyone’s assertions that State should strive to beat Duke and UNC on a regular basis as we have done in the past and that there is no room for excuses—10 years of trying is MORE than long enough to make all initial challenges and excuses obsolete. I also DEFINITELY see a difference in conversation value for FSU beating Duke vs State “taking care of business” in beating underdog FSU, and that would be a fine point on your part except that our WIN vs another underdog, Virginia Tech, was apparently worthy of premium blog attention. Why? Because that WIN offered the opportunity for a negative twist and hammer to points that have been made a zillion times. My point on that being that reading the same old crap over and over gets old (although I should take the blame since I don’t have to read it!!). When we do actually “take care of business” and play like we are capable with defensive and offensive intensity and blow out an FSU that was on a roll and is apparently a pretty decent team, maybe it might be refreshing to point that out. Just a thought…Of course, none of that matters right now since we are sucking…

    Jeff,

    Surely you jest…You insert your personal beliefs about what every fan (you disagree with) is “secretly saying” in about every post you make in addition to questioning the personal nads, goals, mediocrity, etc. of individual posters and half the fanbase as a group…And almost every blog you write ultimately gets back to Sendek either being “mediocre” or failing or underperforming (whether you have ever used the phrase “Herb sucks” is really a moot, nitpicky point of verbiage)…To top off your hypocrisy, above you try to act like YOU can somehow read minds (i.e. “attaching your personal beliefs”) to say that I “blame” you for the “negativism” blah blah blah of “other people’s” conclusions when they come to the conclusions on their own?” blah blah blah (verbiage and points I never uttered in my original post). Seriously, if you really think you have that kind of power over the people, you should get over to Lee Fowler’s office and use your voodoo to make that coaching change you crave rather than posting a zillion blogs saying the same thing over and over and over…

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