Thoughts on the Seminole Beatdown

General NCS Basketball59

Sorry for the late post – I went to bed as soon as I got home from the game last night. Late in the first half, I was getting nervous. After about 15 minutes of play, the Pack was shooting nearly 70% (inside and behind the arc) – and only winning by TWO. Then, the defensive intensity kicked in, and State closed the half on a very impressive 16-0 run. That was the kind of basketball we’ve been waiting to see.

A big key was getting Big Ced back into the flow of the offense. The 3s are nice, but I really like to see at least 3-4 monster jams from Ced per game. There’s no higher percentage shot than that – and it never leads to a transition opportunity for the opponent.

I think our crowd might like Courtney Fells more than the freshman/sophomore version of Scooter Sherrill. Without question, he does bring needed energy whenever he’s in the game. His slashing ability reminds me of Cam, and he might be even more athletic.

After seeing a happy update earlier (50-32 GT), the crowd’s collective groan when the scoreboard flashed the 61-61 tie was quite audible. But that makes it even more confusing as to why nobody shouts the “Go to hell, Carolina” verse of our fight song anymore. What’s with you people?

Ilian Evtimov was playing his best, most controlled basketball of the year. So it sucks for him to get injured. That said, if he’s going to be back at full strength for tournament play (as all indications are that he will be) – it could end up being a blessing in disguise. We need Fells and McCauley to gain more experience and confidence. We don’t want to go into ACCT and NCAAT play only going 7 deep. Not that he’s asking, but my advice to Sendek would be to rest Evtimov until he’s fully recovered. We need him at 100% – not 80% or 90% – for tournament play. A setback, then subsequently playing him 30+ minutes at 80% in the NCAAT would be the surest route to an early exit.

Interesting Note – the games of consequence that I’ve attended in person are George Washington and Florida State. Luck does tend to come in threes – and just so you know, I have tickets for the UNC game next week…

About BJD95

1995 NC State graduate, sufferer of Les and MOC during my entire student tenure. An equal-opportunity objective critic and analyst of Wolfpack sports.

General NCS Basketball

59 Responses to Thoughts on the Seminole Beatdown

  1. VaWolf82 02/16/2006 at 3:41 PM #

    one of your old RPI posts got a shout out from the general ACC blog davesez.com.

    Well Dave gave it more notice than anyone did around here. 😉

  2. Rick 02/16/2006 at 4:06 PM #

    “The last 4 years we’ve essentially had this 7-8 man rotation – and these kind of injuries have happened – and we’ve been able to endure these injuries. Have the results been spectalur – no.”

    you atually made my point. If you are not happy with the previous results then do something to change them. To prepare for an injury (that we always seem to have) then get more players ready. If you are happy with where we have been then do not change anything. Seems easy to see which way we went.

  3. Zahadum 02/16/2006 at 4:13 PM #

    Question about the technical on Atsur last night. I was on the road and had to listen to the game on radio. They were saying it was for slapping the ball on an inbounds play. But after reading Engin’s own comments, it sounds like it was the normal variety. Anyone know for sure?

  4. Jeff 02/16/2006 at 4:17 PM #

    Has this happened to Duke or UNC-Ch w/ such regularity?

    I don’t know, their administration and fans don’t seem to look for the excuses as much as ours do.

    I do know that last season, Duke experienced significant injuries to their starters to the tune of losing approximately 300% more games to injury by starters than NC State did. That is why Coach K was was considered so heavily for COY last year. Despite their injuries and lack of depth, they seemed to do pretty well for the year.

    Last season, the best Carolina team in a while was able to beat our Sweet 16 in Raleigh without their best player – Rashad McCants. (No McCants? No problem?)

    Is it going to be that much to ask that Sendek’s best team in a decade be able to beat a Carolina team with 4 Freshmen and 2 walk-ons on our home court without just one of our inter-changeable parts?

  5. VaWolf82 02/16/2006 at 4:23 PM #

    How many games did Nelson miss for Duke this year?

  6. choppack 02/16/2006 at 5:23 PM #

    “I do know that last season, Duke experienced significant injuries to their starters to the tune of losing approximately 300% more games to injury by starters than NC State did. That is why Coach K was was considered so heavily for COY last year. Despite their injuries and lack of depth, they seemed to do pretty well for the year.”

    By coach K’s standard’s did they do well last year? They certainly had a lousy NCAA tourney by his standards.

    What was Carolina’s record w/out Felton?

    At the end of the day, Sendek will rightly be judged on the product. I’d say we’ve done a fairly decent job developing depth. For whatever reason, Sendek has been able to insert players during these stretches and still do some decent things. Of course, he’s also had his share of problems in the postseason – and I’m not one who excuses these problems due to injuries. As a State fan, I’m po’d. Heck, as far as making excuses, some UNC fans still claim that the Kenny Smith injury cost them a championship 20 years ago.

    VaWolf – He missed a couple of weeks – did he have the same injury?

  7. VaWolf82 02/16/2006 at 5:45 PM #

    Duke sophomore guard DeMarcus Nelson, who fractured the medial malleolus of his right tibia in a game vs. Drexel on Nov. 23, underwent surgery to repair the injury Monday.

    http://duke.scout.com/2/472187.html

    All I was trying to point out was that injuries happen to alot of teams.

  8. Cardiac 02/16/2006 at 6:19 PM #

    It’s not just the last 4 years….its the last 10 years! Herb has always settled into a 6-7 man rotation although the reasons for doing so have varied. Initially, we were told we didn’t have enough talent. Now we have plenty of talent, but we can’t justify taking minutes from our experienced upperclassmen. The results, however, have been entirely consistent….we have very little experienced depth….year after year.

  9. WTNY 02/16/2006 at 8:11 PM #

    This really stinks for Evtimov. He is the one that should be bitter but I don’t believe we will see/hear that from him. I just hope that it doesn’t impact his career post-NCState.

  10. WTNY 02/16/2006 at 8:18 PM #

    Regarding the size of the rotation, I’m sure defensive effort and ability keep some players off the floor but I believe the Pack’s offense is the poison pill that keeps the rotation small.

    The offense requires time to understand (many Freshmen struggle) and a great deal of practice to master for any given season. Having a 10-man regular rotation makes it hard for teammates to know when a player is going backdoor or popping out for a 3.

    Keeping the rotation in the 7-man range improves the offensive chemistry. I’m sure Sendek would love a 10-man rotation with good chemistry but year after year I believe he chooses offensive chemistry over depth.

  11. BJD95 02/16/2006 at 8:44 PM #

    ^ That’s fair for him to make that decision. But he also must accept the negative consequences of said decision.

  12. Clarksa 02/16/2006 at 10:25 PM #

    Correct me if I am wrong, but have we lost a game yet without Evtimov in the lineup? Can we wait till we actually lose before looking for an excuse for the loss or blaming the coach for not having a deep enough bench?

    To quote Wayne’s World, “Live in the Now.” It’s about this team, this year. Forget about the last 9 years, or even the last 9 games…focus on the remaining games and the rest of our year. Try enjoying the run that we are on…you might like it.

  13. VaWolf82 02/16/2006 at 11:11 PM #

    Keeping the rotation in the 7-man range improves the offensive chemistry.

    I agree with you that the complexity of the offense will keep some players, especially freshmen on the bench. I think that we can also agree that if you don’t play defense to Herb’s standards, then you will sit on the bench.

    However, I’m not sure that I buy the “offensive chemistry” theory. Last year, there were alot of games that nine different players played….10 in the few games that Levi was able to play in. Claiming that an offensive designed to work with interchangeable parts doesn’t work if you try to inter-change the parts somehow doesn’t add up to me.

  14. class of '74 02/17/2006 at 6:33 AM #

    If you are running a system so complicated that kids can’t come in and run it something is WRONG! These kids play nonstop from the age of 12 -13 in AAU and school. They go to camps and recieve the best of instruction. The argument is fradulent in my mind!
    Herb has a comfort level with certain guys and that is his perogative but I have argued all season long the freshmen were not seeing enough time and this is why you get them some time earlier in the year!!!

  15. Jeff 02/17/2006 at 8:08 AM #

    By coach K’s standard’s did they do well last year? They certainly had a lousy NCAA tourney by his standards.

    Amen brother!! At least you acknowledge the difference in STANDARDS at other schools, especially Duke and Carolina. By K’s standards (that are obviously higher than State’s). Duke finished 25-5 last year and #4 in the RPI. They won the ACC Championship and were ranked in the Top 5 most of the season.

    At the end of the day, Sendek will rightly be judged on the product.
    At the end of WHAT day? Year 5 of NO success? A decade of nothing close to a peak season of what our program, our competition, and other schools with significantly lesser resources can produce?

    Do you really believe that any NC State coach will ultimately be judged in the same manner, timeframe, and with the same expectations that other schools judge their coaches? We don’t EVER judge anyone on the same standards of other schools – that was admitted in the first set of comments.

  16. VaWolf82 02/17/2006 at 8:15 AM #

    I have argued all season long the freshmen were not seeing enough time and this is why you get them some time earlier in the year!!!

    I don’t know any specifics about any of the freshman, but if a kid is not “ready” in practice, then he is not “ready” when it comes to a real game. I sincerely doubt that five minutes per game would makek a dramatic improvement over what we are going to see the next several weeks.

  17. choppack 02/17/2006 at 8:36 AM #

    All I was trying to point out was that injuries happen to alot of teams.

    No one said they don’t. Of course, I think Ilian means more to this team than Nelson does to Duke. But will you deny that some folks are more difficult to replace than others…Think of a great team – now take the third best player off that team – are they still one of the greats.

    Think about the 74 team – you get to remove Burleson, Towe or DT – who do you take? Think about the 83 team – Whitt, Lowe, or Bailey? Think about the 82 UNC-Ch team – remove Jordan, Worthy, Perkins or Black – do they still cut down nets.

    My point is simple – an injury to an important player stinks – and your better off with that player.

  18. class of '74 02/17/2006 at 8:59 AM #

    Admittedly I know nothing of Fells or McCauley’s readiness but they are seen as the most likely next players behind our thin rotation as it presently exists. Then I look at our history of injuries during Sendek’s era and I wonder how many years must it take to realize depth is important, injuries do occur. We have had many opportunities to get these guys some meaningful minutes but they just sat instead. In the modern era, injuries seem to be more a part of the game and so should recruiting and building depth to compensate!!!

    Hopefully Ilian’s injury is mild and he will miss only a week or two but not having players ready to take his place is someone’s responsibility.

  19. Rick 02/17/2006 at 9:05 AM #

    Here are two points that should be repeated
    “Claiming that an offensive designed to work with interchangeable parts doesn’t work if you try to inter-change the parts somehow doesn’t add up to me.”
    and
    “If you are running a system so complicated that kids can’t come in and run it something is WRONG! ”

    I have never bought the “they do not understand the offense” theory. These kids are very sophisticated basketball players. They live eat and breathe basketball and know more about it than we ever will. Is Duke’s offense so complaicated frosh cannot play? Is UNCs? Is Mich Sts? If ours is that complicated then it should be changed.

  20. choppack 02/17/2006 at 9:14 AM #

    class of 74 – I am confident that Sendek believes depth is important. I think the wolfpack have performed decently when these injuries occur – last year’s Sweet 16 comes to mind.

    Serious question – I’ve generally got a pretty good memory – but can someone name more than 2 national championship winners that won these titles after losing someone who had started every game during a substantial part of that season?

  21. BJD95 02/17/2006 at 9:23 AM #

    clarksa is right – we should just let it play out, and not pre-emptively make excuses or pre-pre-emptively rebut those excuses (I am guilty as charged on the second point).

    I really don’t think Evtimov is any more important than the other 6 guys in the primary rotation. The only one we can’t really replace with another “interchangeable part” is Big Ced.

    Let’s hope the team rallies around their fallen teammate and plays with maximum intensity and focus the rest of the season.

  22. VaWolf82 02/17/2006 at 9:24 AM #

    – But will you deny that some folks are more difficult to replace than others
    – an injury to an important player stinks
    – and your better off with that player.

    I don’t think that anyone was arguing any of these points.

  23. class of '74 02/17/2006 at 9:25 AM #

    ^great, then we have nothing to be worried about.

  24. class of '74 02/17/2006 at 9:28 AM #

    sorry but I was a little slow to the submit button, above comment was for choppack.

  25. RickJ 02/17/2006 at 9:49 AM #

    Personally, I think it is a good idea to play as many as you can; mainly to improve team morale and to gain experience for younger players. Duke plays 7 players and K has been criticized for this practice – He’s wearing out Reddick and such. John Wooden openly stated that playing more than 7 hurts team chemistry. Marcus Johnson sat on UCLA’s bench when we beat them in the 1974 Final Four. There are just as many examples of great coaches that used the other approach – Smith & Pitino come quickly to mind.

    Costner had the best opportunity of our freshman to become our 8th man and maybe average 10 – 12 minutes a game. He was the highest rated, played the most of the freshman in the 5 games he played and is the closest in skill set to Illian. Injuries are definitely part of the game but it is more unfortunate to have them occur at the end of the season. Hopefully, Illian will be able to return and we won’t have to face losing a key player for the 3rd year in a row in the post-season.

    Luck definitely plays a part in college basketball. We could have a great discussion on what “luck� is and why some people seem to have it and others don’t. I would be willing to bet that K’s successor at Duke will have a very tough time living up to expectations and that one of the explanations for his problems will be “bad luck�. In addition to everything else we asked of a coach, I want a “lucky� one too.

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