What the Hell Happened?

General NCS Basketball70

Well, NC State came out as lackadasical as it did against Wake. Against a slightly better opponent, that spelled disaster in the form of an 83-65 home loss. No undefeated home season, and question marks abound. How do you come out that flat 2 games in a row?

In short, everybody sucked. I was glad to see Sendek play Fells and McCauley towards the end (but before pure garbage time). The regulars sure as hell didn’t earn their PT.

About BJD95

1995 NC State graduate, sufferer of Les and MOC during my entire student tenure. An equal-opportunity objective critic and analyst of Wolfpack sports.

General NCS Basketball

70 Responses to What the Hell Happened?

  1. class of '74 01/26/2006 at 10:14 AM #

    ^You are correct but HE DID PUT THOSE GUYS ON THE FLOOR that missed them. And those same guys didn’t guard anyone either. It was both unexplainable and inexcusable the performance of coach and team last night.

  2. Jeff 01/26/2006 at 10:58 AM #

    “at least i’m hoping it was just a one-off tragedy.”

    We seem to only play a series of “one games” while everyone else in the country plays seasons and schedules. I guess that this is the benefit of living in daytight compartments while the rest of the world operates in the real world.

    When you compete only in subjectively created universes of self-selected, microscopic criteria, you can create success out of thin air. (See any of Pacdaddy’s posts that compare a week of our performance with the week that somebody like Florida had in 2002).

    But, the potential magnitude of overall success generated in this season continues to dissipate very quickly. Looks like another “nice little season” for any program that simply wants to get into the NCAA and attempt to get to the Sweet 16. Nothing more.

  3. class of '74 01/26/2006 at 11:12 AM #

    ^Please don’t bring up Ned the shipping manager in the FedEx ad. He’ll bring up some ridiculous reference to Rick Barnes when he was at Clemson or Providence and how he lost by larger margins to Seton Hall than Herb did.

  4. Slader4881 01/26/2006 at 11:19 AM #

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/grant_wahl/01/25/the.bag/index.html

    Scroll down and read what Grant Wahl has to say about the Pack. I think he hit the nail on the head, on why we are not a real threat at the NCAA title. Last night was a perfect example. Consistency is the key and this team can’t seem to put together enought good games.

  5. class of '74 01/26/2006 at 11:32 AM #

    ^It will take devine intervention to get this team into the sweet sixteen let alone any national final contention. We just aren’t at that level on a consistent night to night basis.

  6. BJD95 01/26/2006 at 11:39 AM #

    The way I see it, there were 3 ways to take the Duke game (for the players):

    1) Be mad – you had a chance to win in Cameron, but didn’t finish the deal. Take it out on your next opponents.

    2) Go into a lull, feeling sorry for yourself about the lost opportunity. Have difficulty getting up for teams like Wake Forest and Seton Hall.

    3) Feel vindicated by the close game, thinking you are the clear #2 team in the ACC and a Top 15-caliber team nationally. Don’t focus on your next opponents, expecting to cruise by on autopilot and/or expect teams to fold just b/c you’re NC State – the team that had Duke on the ropes.

    It’s clear that #1 didn’t happen, which is a huge disappointment to me. I thought I was seeing glimpses of the vaunted “championship mentality” in these players, and Option #1 is how a champion reacts. #2 and #3 are both dangerous territory (although #2 probably less so – but a lull can be quite protracted, as has been the case for Virginia Tech), and it’s Herb Sendek’s job to pull his team out of whichever trap they are in.

  7. Alex 01/26/2006 at 12:20 PM #

    I just wanted to thank GoPack.com, for telling me the game was only on the radio. At 8pm I was flipping through the channels and found our game live on ESPN classic. Just another example of the great work being done at the SID

  8. Jeff 01/26/2006 at 12:51 PM #

    ^ You really think that it is a legitimate option for our team to play with any kind of angry emption and determination (when compared to other programs)?

    Our people can’t have it both ways.

    They love to tout ‘daytight compartments’ and ‘no loss is more important than others’ and ‘giving your best is good enough’….they can’t then say that we are a firey team who responds with emotion.

    Teams & programs take on the personalities of their leaders. That is no secret.

    At the end of the year…..we’ll have a nice little record….with a nice little win or two….and we will hear from the HSSS crowd how we will be competing at a higher level in a few years when we get Chris Lawson.

    It’s groundhog day.

  9. BJD95 01/26/2006 at 1:14 PM #

    ^ No question that I “hoped” more than I “thought.” And you KNOW that I’ve never touted the “daytight compartments” attitude. That’s motivational poster-level BS.

  10. Mr. O 01/26/2006 at 1:39 PM #

    “We seem to only play a series of “one gamesâ€? while everyone else in the country plays seasons and schedules. I guess that this is the benefit of living in daytight compartments while the rest of the world operates in the real world.”

    Do you mean like Florida who has now lost 2 straight games? Or like West Va last night who lost to Marshall? Or like Michigan St who lost to Michigan?

    We aren’t even halfway through the ACC season at this point. The team has played very consistent all year with only a few poor performances, but then I heard Billy Donovan say that his team lost everything they had gained this year in the last two games.

    So I guess it happens to other teams too.

  11. Jeff 01/26/2006 at 2:32 PM #

    O, thanks for proving my point better than I could.

    Do you mean like Florida who has now lost 2 straight games? Or like West Va last night who lost to Marshall? Or like Michigan St who lost to Michigan?

    You mean a Florida program who played in the National Championship game a few years ago and owns more weeks ranked in the Top 5 over the last 9 years than Herb owns weeks in the top 25?

    or a Michigan State program that is arguably one of the top 5 programs of the last decade?

    You make my point….perfectly — the teams/programs that you mention have generated significantly more success over the last decade to create a situation where (a) individual losses aren’t as painful, and (b) they have reason to shrug off losses because they have hope about the future (based on their actual past performance).

    OF COURSE ALL teams lose single games. NC State just wins a lot fewer, against a lot weaker competition, and hasn’t created bodies of work that remotely compare to the programs that you reference. Other than that…we’re just like Florida and Michigan State!!

  12. Sammy Kent 01/26/2006 at 2:57 PM #

    Once again I was in church on Wednesday night and haven’t watched the game. From what I’m reading maybe the team was just totally unprepared and unmotivated, or the offense reverted back to the Princeton style circle-the-wagons or five-statues scheme, or the defense gave up too much, or some part of all three. I’m not sure I WANT to watch it, but I will anyway.

    However, I offer myself and anyone else a ray of sunshine, and remember I’ve been one of Herb’s most severe critics for five seasons. You know V’s teams always seemed to have a game like this: an OOC opponent we should respect but still be able to handle hands us our shirt, or at least, comes out with a W. The ’84 team lost to VaTech, the ’86 team lost to Loyola-Chicago, the ’87 team lost to Tampa, the ’88 team lost to UCSB, and the ’90 team lost to ETSU. Back then I’d honestly say “I don’t like this, but it’s an OOC game that really doesn’t count, and I know this is a much better team. Sh*t happens.

    But thank goodness, not often.” For nine seasons there hasn’t been a Sendek team I could feel that way about. Those kind of games for nine seasons have merely been snapshot indicators of all that was wrong with Sendek and the teams and the program. This season’s team and this season’s Herb have shown me enough that for the first time in a decade I can sorta feel that “Sh*t happens. Let’s get over it, because we’re above it.” feeling. I hope I’m right. This is all on Herb, but I want to give him his chance to learn. Dang, this is probably the first time I’ve taken up for Sendek since he tossed Wilkins.

  13. J.R. 01/26/2006 at 3:09 PM #

    Oh please…how can anyone blame last night strictly on Herb? The team was really bad last night. Unfortunately, this team seems to be getting worse as the season goes along. Usually it’s the other way around with Herb. Herb didn’t play, Herb didn’t miss wide open looks, Herb didn’t appear lacksadaisical on defense, Herb didn’t turn the ball over all night. Herb didn’t lose last night, just like he didn’t beat Wake. At some pt., the kids must be held accountable. Where is the fire with these kids? Are they bored with being a ranked team? I just don’t get why the team looked as if they wanted to be somewhere else last night.

  14. Jeff 01/26/2006 at 3:17 PM #

    For the record…I’m not critizing Herb. Don’t really care to. People get so eaten up with my posts that they never seem to realize that I rarely actually criticize Herb. For years, my issues have been the management of program and the de-volving standards in our fanbase.

    I definitely highlight (and ultimately criticize) the results produced by Herb’s program compared against different metrics — Which is the larger issue here of how/why we can’t seem to create a peak season comparable with our history, our geographical peers, and other schools of similar resources.

    Every little “it’s just one game loss” is a big step away from a “peak season” worth touting that so many others have been able to create and that we haven’t in a decade.

    Sammy….you make some historically relevant points about some of V’s teams. But, just like the failed comparisons to other programs (which are taken one arbitrary night at a time), those comparisons are made in a little bit of a vaccuum —

    V had a PROVEN TRACK RECORD that he could still achieve greatness after those losses – the 86 team made the Final 8, the 87 team won an ACC Title, etc. Therefore, fans had a legitimate reason to always have hope and excitement about what lay around each corner.

    Sendek has had a DECADE of opportunity and has generated NOTHING OF THE SORT. Fans have no logical expectation that we will suddenly start achieving things that we haven’t been able to have been achieved in a decade.

    That is why these bad losses are always under such a magnifying glass and viewed differently than others — because there are so few “great wins” (and no real great accomplishments) to balance off the pain. To Wolfpackers, these losses are more of the same old song and dance…so why shouldn’t the rest of the season be the same old song and dance of no high-water marks?

  15. Sammy Kent 01/26/2006 at 3:35 PM #

    Jeff, I do not at all disagree with your statement. There was a significant difference in the way we could react to such losses when V was the coach precisely BECAUSE V was the coach. Herb has no consistent year-to-year record of achievement or recovery to engender any kind of confidence that last night was just a blip. I’m only giving him the benefit of this one doubt because he has shown for at least most of this season a willingness to do things differently than in the past, (i.e. push tempo, have a real post player, let the guards handle the ball, etc) and I want to believe he really is starting to get it. Because of that, I give him a ONE GAME pass.

    I agree with BJD95 that perhaps this team accepted the Dook game as vindication of its ranking and figured it could mail the rest in. Doubleplusungood.

  16. Greg 01/26/2006 at 3:53 PM #

    Three words…

    Atsur
    Brackman
    Evtimov

    Those three guys need to realize their roles. State will be a good team when we stop thinking those three guys can be ACC starters. A school should only start one of these guys when there is sufficent talent in other spots to make up for their extreme lack of explosive talent.

    Role players is what they are and we rely on them to be more. Not a one of them would start for UNC of Duke and they both have frosh in their lineups.

  17. All your base... 01/26/2006 at 5:16 PM #

    ^ “It’s groundhog day.”

    Hey! That’s my line!!! Please see my reply in this earlier thread: http://www.statefansnation.com/index.php/archives/2005/12/01/sendeks-ooc-record/#comments

    I bet Herb wakes up every morning to Sonny and Cher on the clock radio. Hhaaahahahahahahahaaaaaaa!!!

  18. RickJ 01/26/2006 at 5:33 PM #

    Greg – Not to sound to contentious but UNC-Chapel Hill started Bobby Frasor & Wes Miller last night. Would we be better if we traded Duke Astur for Dockery? This is the one year I don’t think talent can be used as a crutch.

    I know where you are coming from but this is not a good year in the ACC to make the point. These three guys would start or play major minutes for everybody in the ACC.

  19. Jeff 01/26/2006 at 7:05 PM #

    All your base…

    check out the dates on this one

    We also had an old post that included a movie poster of Groundhog Day….but, I can’t seem to find it right now.

  20. JeremyHyatt 01/27/2006 at 2:12 AM #

    we need one talented shooting point guard and one more forward/center Cedric Simmons-type player away from being a legit top 5 team.

    ( I heard Larry Davis isn’t a good shooter, Chris Wright is 2 years away, and we have no one in the pipe to fill that bruiser role, maybe we do but we are competting with Carolina for them)

    We were exposed, everyone now knows Ced foul’s trouble = Achilles Heel. And just a bad game, it happens, even in the NBA playoffs. All I know is if I am Herb, there will be people puking from running suicides in practice. Ya Herd!

    —
    Shutup already it was one lose, don’t cash your chips in just yet. This is character building time.

  21. Mr. O 01/27/2006 at 7:48 AM #

    Jeff: Whether we shrug this loss off or make a huge deal out of it, it really doesn’t matter. We have a long, long ways to go this season, so freaking out over this game could end up looking pretty silly.

    I refuse to get too upset over one loss or too excited about one win. The Seton Hall game was a disappointment, but the loss didn’t close any doors on our season. We just need to beat Clemson to get back on track. The success of this season is still going to be measured in March no matter what we do in January.

  22. Jeff 01/27/2006 at 8:30 AM #

    ^ Do you REALLY think that I am “freaking out” over this loss? Dude…I didn’t even watch the game. Could care less about the losing. My days of hurting are long gone. Additionally, I completely understand this, and every loss, within the context of the whole season.

    But, I was choosing to discuss this loss (and others) across a much greater context — which you (and some others) simply refuse (or cannot) acknowledge.

    It’s the craziest thing — I spend 10 minutes detailing my EXACT thoughts about a topic, and you reply to a fictitious, assumed emotion that you choose to apply to me that has nothing to do with all of the salient points that I discussed.

    If what we do in January doesn’t matter….then why in God’s name do they schedule games and ask me to buy tickets in January?

  23. Packbackers 01/27/2006 at 9:20 AM #

    Jeff, no one is saying it doesn’t matter. But here is what you said:

    “The potential magnitude of overall success generated in this season continues to dissipate very quickly. Looks like another “nice little seasonâ€? for any program that simply wants to get into the NCAA and attempt to get to the Sweet 16. Nothing more.”

    If that’s not freaking out over one loss, then I don’t know what is!

  24. Rick 01/27/2006 at 10:15 AM #

    “It’s clear that #1 didn’t happen, which is a huge disappointment to me. I thought I was seeing glimpses of the vaunted “championship mentalityâ€? in these players,”

    That kind of attitude flows from the top. Nothing but BS flows from our top.

  25. class of '74 01/27/2006 at 10:54 AM #

    It’s not so much that it was one little loss but to whom we lost, how badly we lost and that the game was at home and we lost. When you consider all three of those factors then you can see where fans would question is our team really as good as projected or is this just another in a long line of disappointing seasons?

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