Interactive: State OOC in Sendek Era

General NCS Basketball Rankings & Lists32

In light of Carolina’s out of conference basketball success this season….I thought that I would open up the forum for your thoughts on the topic of NC State’s out of conference success over the last decade.

Let’s try to compile a list of NC State’s Ten Best Out of Conference Basketball victories of the Herb Sendek era. Regular season games only (not NIT or NCAAs)
And, let’s please don’t run off on tangents and smart-alec comments that are too far away from the central point. Let’s come up with a Top Ten list together. (I’ve been working on a list, but want to wait until hearing from you.)

I’ll start with a candidate for the top spot —

December 1, 1999 at Purdue. State wins 61-59 on Justin Gainey’s last second shot. The Boilermakers ultimately made the Elite Eight that season and ended the year 23-10, ranked #31 in the RPI and #21 in the Sagarin.

Any thoughts?

General NCS Basketball Rankings & Lists

32 Responses to Interactive: State OOC in Sendek Era

  1. Mr. O 01/30/2006 at 1:21 PM #

    Agree with Newswolf. I think it has been clear for a long time that Herb simply doesn’t believe in playing tough OOC schedules. He hasn’t played one in 10 years, so I don’t expect him to ever start.

    I think it is a bad strategy myself, but it is Herb’s program and as long as he delivers in overall performance then I won’t complain so much about scheduling. But regardless, it makes no sense not to play better OOC schedules than what he typically shedules.

  2. class of '74 01/30/2006 at 1:56 PM #

    Funny how weak OOC’s are a regular thing for both our football and basketball programs.

  3. Jeff 01/30/2006 at 5:20 PM #

    “I think it is a bad strategy myself, but it is Herb’s program and as long as he delivers in overall performance then I won’t complain so much about scheduling.”

    Doesn’t this scheduling significantly impact (and even skew) “overall performance” to the point that it is very hard to tell how “good” the program really is sometimes?

    No offense…we finished #65 in the RPI last year and you have been fighting the battle of how well the program has been doing of late. We’ve squeezed into the NCAA on the Bubble in 3 of the last 4 years based solely on padding our overall record with weak OOC games.

    Is that the kind of true “overall performance” that wins you over?

  4. Mr. O 01/31/2006 at 10:43 AM #

    Jeff: You and I look at things differently. Our RPI in one season doesn’t matter to me when we make the Sweet 16 for the first time in a dozen years in the same season. You will take anything Herb has accomplished, like a Sweet 16 last year, and point out why we shouldn’t be happy with Herb as our coach (because we had an RPI of 65). No matter what he does, you have to explain to us why it isn’t good enough.

    I think Herb’s record against ACC competition the last 4 years is solid (48-34). I think 4 straight NCAAs capped by a Sweet 16 is a nice run to build on. Assuming we have a top 4 finish this year, then Herb will have finished top 4 in the ACC in 4 of the last 5 years with 4 of those years being seeded higher than UNC in the ACC tournament.

    So, there are always different ways of looking at things and some people will see it my way and some people won’t.

    What does Herb have to accomplish this year for you to vocally support him as our coach?

  5. Jeff 02/01/2006 at 10:57 AM #

    ^ I fully support Herb as our coach. I don’t fully support that NC State fans should be asked to accept 10 years of no championships in basketball from any single coach.

    I fully agree that the last four years represent a nice foundation as “something to build on”.

    However, because of 10 years of performance from which to judge, I am not optimistic in proclaiming and believing that we will build further from where we are this year. That is my personal opinion. That is why I am hoping so desperately for a “peak season” that compares somewhere remotely to something that our peers have achieved in recent years.

  6. JSIMON 02/01/2006 at 1:05 PM #

    I think Herb’s record against ACC competition the last 4 years is solid (48-34). I think 4 straight NCAAs capped by a Sweet 16 is a nice run to build on. Assuming we have a top 4 finish this year, then Herb will have finished top 4 in the ACC in 4 of the last 5 years with 4 of those years being seeded higher than UNC in the ACC tournament.

    Mr. O, I agree whole-heartedly with this statement. Quite frankly, I could care less about RPI’s and how many ranked opponents we play out-of-conference each year. Four straight NCAA appearances that included a trip to the Sweet 16 are signs that the program is headed in a positive direction. You just cannot argue that.

    After all, it had been more than a decade since we went to the tournament. And longer than that since we’d been to a Sweet 16. The landscape of college basketball changed so much during that period. The elite programs inched away from the “pack” and the “pack” became bigger. Everyone wants to win a national championship. Everyone wants to win a ACC championship. But only one team can do each. That is NOT the only measuring stick of success.

    This naive thinking that there’s always something (or someone) out there who’s better is nothing short of pessimism and short-sightedness. Building an elite program (and more importantly maintaining it) is extremely difficult. And sometimes consistency plays a big role in that.

    But that’s just my soapbox. We’ve all got ’em, right?

    http://simonsayshoops.blogspot.com

  7. Mr. O 02/01/2006 at 6:10 PM #

    “Just for giggles (and to irritate some of you) … did you notice that three of the nation’s top 10 “efficient” offensive teams run the “Princeton” offense? Air Force (3rd), NC State, and Georgetown (10th).”

    That is pretty interesting, Jason. I agree it takes time and what many like Jeff and others on this site believe is that 10 years is plenty of time.

    Others, like me, don’t even consider the first 5 years anymore because that was our own fault for hiring a coach who wasn’t ready for the NC State job.

    Essentially, there are two different ways to look at it. A final 8 would go a long towards unifying the fanbase even further.

    Jeff: Many people would view those statements as contradictory. Regardless, it could be argued that Duke and UNC aren’t peers of ours in reality. Certainly Wake, GT, and Maryland could be considered peers. Wake and GT are sitting in the cellar of the ACC right now and Maryland missed the NCAA tournament last year.

    Those programs have some great accomplishments the last 4 years, but Herb has delivered more in terms of consistency. Our program is as stable as any of these three programs and positioned to perform well for the future.

    Maybe we are finally at that point where we can legitimately start targeting UNC and Duke again?

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