Congratulations, Carolina

General NCS Basketball54

Amazing.

This year’s NC State squad added a McDonald’s All-American and 2 other strong recruits to a team that returned 63% of its scoring, 68% of its rebounding, and has freed up space to play Cedric Simmons who didn’t play enough last year to impact the returning numbers. This week, the Pack scored 42 points in a universally described “ugly game” after only scoring 61 against Notre Dame (despite having a big lead and getting the chance to shoot free throws with the lead).

Carolina returned less than 10% of their scoring after losing their top seven players and they win AT Rupp Arena over the #10 ranked, Kentucky Wildcats.

Could you imagine if NC State lost that many players? We’d be hearing how it takes years for anyone to rebuild after such a “touch luck” exodus. Of course, we’re nowhere near competing on the level of programs like Carolina, so I don’t NC State has to worry much about losing that many players (unless they transfer….which has been known to happen).

Just for some perspective, NC State has defeated a single Top 10 team on the road throughout Herb Sendek’s 10 years of out of conference play. That was a December 2001 at Syracuse, who proved to be grossly over-rated when the failed to qualify for the NCAA Tournament that season.

For precision — Carolina has won as many road games against out of conference Top 10 teams in the last 6 hours as NC State has won in a decade.

Congratulations, Carolina.

General NCS Basketball

54 Responses to Congratulations, Carolina

  1. Saccov 12/03/2005 at 7:44 PM #

    Although I agree that the Iowa game was very winnable for State, I’m not exactly sure you can equate these two games for the simple fact two reasons. First, Roy can win a big game, especially on the road. He’s done it at UNC and he did it many times at Kansas. Herb is still not the road coach that Williams is and probably won’t be. Secondly, State was playing it’s first tough road game where Carolina had already cut their teeth against Illinois at home last week (which they lost). This next game for State is very important to see how well they bounce back. It’s not prudent to bail out of NC State’s season because of a (albeit horrible) 3-pt loss against one of the tougher teams in the Big TEleveN.

  2. BJD95 12/03/2005 at 8:04 PM #

    Roy Williams is one hell of a coach. Any State, Wake, or Duke fan who says otherwise is simply jealous or blinded by partisanship (any other type of fan holding such a belief can be classified as an idiot).

    The sickest thing is that part of me couldn’t help feeling good for them. A bunch of 7th and 8th man types, and some glorified walkons (along with a legitimate ACC starter or two, but only the true freshmen) – playing with poise, confidence, and aggression, in one of the 5-10 most hostile road environments in college basketball. You have to tip your cap to them, even if you want to vomit in it immediately thereafter.

    Roy Williams is the antithesis of everything I want in a UNC head coach (that is, incompetent and easy to hate).

  3. blpack 12/03/2005 at 9:03 PM #

    It’s still easy to hate Roy because he is their coach and I’m not so sure he has enjoyed the ride of the last year as much as you would think one would who longed for a title so much. He gets it done. I was thinking we’d finish ahead of the holes during the season, but they are way ahead of where I thought they’d be for early December. Nothing like having coachable kids buy into a system and that system actually works.

  4. Jamie 12/03/2005 at 9:53 PM #

    I am tired. I don’t want to go to work on Monday and face those people. This has gotten to the point of apathy. My boss and assistant are Tarhole fans, and I don’t think that I can take it anymore. Over the last few years I have had to suffer the usual pokes: UNC stickers on my company car, the broom in my cubicle the day after they sweep us, again. I always overlooked it though, knowing that the way these things cycle, we would get ours. Then we started losing at football-consistently. Now this? My assistant called me woofing after the final buzzer today, and said “that’s how you beat a ranked team on the road.” Oh boy. Monday awaits. Will it ever change?

  5. Jeff 12/03/2005 at 10:50 PM #

    Do yourself a favor and stop hating them. I have stopped hating their basketball program nearly as much as I once did over the last couple years out of sheer respect for their standards and the way that they manage their program and strive for success. When you start to laugh at NC State and credit them, it makes it a lot easier. The sad thing is that the clowns in Raleigh live in such denial that they don’t even get it.

  6. Jim 12/03/2005 at 10:54 PM #

    Complacency by our fans is likely the worst that could happen to our athletic program. I don’t care any more. I have better things to do than watch the sorry product we put on the floor or field. It’s sad.

  7. site admin 12/03/2005 at 11:03 PM #

    For precision — Carolina has won as many road games against out of conference Top 10 teams in the last 6 hours as NC State has won in a decade.

    The really sad thing is… has Sendek ever playead a top 10 OOC game?

  8. Jeff 12/03/2005 at 11:27 PM #

    Syracuse in the year that they didn’t make the NCAA Tourney was ranked in the Top 10 when we beat them. Almost exactly 4 years ago tonight (SEC Title game)

    But…hey…”we’re improving! Things are getting better!”

    (Just saying it makes it so)

  9. john 12/03/2005 at 11:53 PM #

    it was a good win for the heels on the road. However, I personal think UK is not that good. Rondo is great but that is it. We are better than UK. I think would finish 5th in the ACC. Look how slow Sparks is. He was useless today. Roy is a great coach and they looked pretty good but let’s see how they hold up in the ACC. My money still says they finish no better than 9-7 and I think we end up better than that.

  10. Jeff 12/04/2005 at 12:31 AM #

    ^ I think that may be right about UK’s ‘strength’ this year. But, we never get the chance to grab wins like this since we (a) schedule so few good OOC teams and (b) so rarely beat them when we play them no matter how bad they are. (all I can think about right now was our play in MSG last year against #150+ St Johns)

  11. DDrye 12/04/2005 at 3:16 AM #

    Jeff,
    I have a few problems with your latest thoughts, in particular this:
    “Could you imagine if NC State lost that many players? We’d be hearing how it takes years for anyone to rebuild after such a “touch luck� exodus. Of course, we’re nowhere near competing on the level of programs like Carolina, so I don’t NC State has to worry much about losing that many players (unless they transfer….which has been known to happen).�

    Actually, in Hodge’s freshman year, NC State was replacing four seniors and heralded sophomore Damien Wilkens, and managed to finish third in the ACC with a group of freshmen led by 1 MCDAA (UNC signed 3), and two seniors after being picked 7th in the conference. That team also managed to come a game from advancing to the Sweet 16 and also advanced to the ACC title game. Granted, NC State only lost 5 players if I remember correctly and not 7, but didn’t add as much UNC has either.

    The last part of your statement, NC State is no where near competing with UNC. Entering this season, NC State was projected to finish ahead of the Tar Heels in the ACC and overall. If they do so, it would be 4 out of 5 years accomplishing that feat and 2 out of 3 years with Roy in Chapel Hill. How is that not competing with UNC when in four out of the past 5 years NC State managed to have better seasons?

  12. VaWolf82 12/04/2005 at 8:43 AM #

    At present, Herb is 0-4 against Roy…..I don’t consider that competing. Maybe that streak will end this year. If it does, then you might have a point to make. Until then, to say that State is competitive with UNC based solely on predictions is not really a valid argument. Even if the streak were to end, all you could really say is that State was competitive (or better) this one year.

    Based only on the NCSU/Iowa game and seeing how UNC looked against Illinois and Kentucky…..I wouldn’t bet alot of money that the streak will end this year.

  13. packbackers 12/04/2005 at 9:46 AM #

    Vawolf, the comment was “we are nowhere near competing on the level of programs like Carolina.” Not we haven’t beaten them in four games, or we didn’t play as well as them in our last non-conference game. Do you really think that Carolina is so far ahead of us right now that we can’t even compete with them?

  14. DDrye 12/04/2005 at 10:05 AM #

    VaWolf, It’s not based on predictions. It is based on the fact that over the past four seasons, NC State has finished with a better overall and ACC record than UNC three times. The Wolfpack could likely do the same this season, and that would be four out of five years. I’m not judging competing on one game. I’d rather have a better overall year than UNC than beat them head-to-head.

  15. Jeff 12/04/2005 at 11:07 AM #

    ^ Can we hang a banner for that?

    Do you really think that Carolina is so far ahead of us right now that we can’t even compete with them?

    Did you sleep through last year’s games?

    Allow me to remind you about last year’s embarassment in Chapel Hill….and about Carolina’s defeat of us on our home floor without their best player even dressing out?. Seriously, you HAVE to click on this link before saying anyting else.

    “Competing with a program” is NOT defined as you picking and choosing individual head to head games to proclaim that losing be 10 points is “competing with them”.

    “Competing with a program” is defined as achieving similar results and garnering similar attention as them. If you remotely think that NC State competes with Carolina over the last decade, then you are a moron. If you have any reason to think that Herb Sendek can & will compete on the same stage as Roy Williams in the next decade…then you have the faith of an apostle. Then again, you may just be one of “them” who doesn’t think that we could/should even try.

  16. Jeff 12/04/2005 at 11:39 AM #

    Actually, in Hodge’s freshman year, NC State was replacing four seniors and heralded sophomore Damien Wilkens, and managed to finish third in the ACC with a group of freshmen led by 1 MCDAA (UNC signed 3), and two seniors after being picked 7th in the conference.

    What is interesting about this is that they chose to fire their coach because of finishing behind us for 2 consecutive years. Conversely, Herb had finished behind Carolina in the 6 previous years and we kept giving him extensions. Then again, this is why they won a National Championship last year and our fans act as though a 4-4 NCAA record in a decade is something to hang a banner about.

    Sendek is 5-15 vs Carolina…and 1-13 against Carolina coaches not named Matt Doherty (whom Carolina deemed unfit for the job despite a better record vs Herb than Herb has against Carolina)…yet our fans choose a 1 or 2 year period that we finished ahead of Carolina in the ACC as an example of how we ‘compete’ with them?

    You guys think that might comments are about “HERB”. You continuously miss the point. They aren’t about Herb…they are about the gross mismanagement of the strategic ‘direction’ of our program. Bless his heart…Herb does the best that he can do. That is a big part of the problem.

    That team also managed to come a game from advancing to the Sweet 16 and also advanced to the ACC title game.

    Please pardon my confusion HOW you have found a way to PRAISE a LOSS to a lower seeded team in what was called one of the Top 10 biggest collapses in NCAA Tournament history, coming on the heels of the worst collapse in the entire history of the Atlantic Coast Conference.

  17. Jeff 12/04/2005 at 11:48 AM #

    It is based on the fact that over the past four seasons, NC State has finished with a better overall and ACC record than UNC three times.

    Don’t you get it?

    They FIRED the very coach that created those results for them BECAUSE of that very performance.

    We finished behind them for SIX CONSECUTIVE YEARS prior to this and we kept giving our coach extensions!! This is WHY they are so much better than us.

    Never in the history of ACC Basketball will we have a period where Carolina has 4 different coaches on their bench in a 7 year period. How did we capitalize on their turmoil and turnover? With a 5-15 record. But, we’re “competing” with them!

  18. VaWolf82 12/04/2005 at 12:31 PM #

    – Beating good teams is always good.
    – Beating UNC is always good…..even if they are not good.
    – The fact that some State fans look back into seasons years past (and with the previous coach) to brag about beating bad UNC teams is just sad.

    State’s record against UNC, Duke, or any other single school is not the main issue. (IIRC, Valvano didn’t beat Dean until the 1983 season.) The point is about State’s program and its direction. State’s record against Duke, UNC, Wake, and Maryland over the only four years that Fowler can remember is horrid. With Herb as coach, State has never had a winning record against teams in the RPI top 50 (State did manage to go 7-7 in the 03-04 season.).

    As Barnett said last week, Herb and State are “stuck at pretty good”. Maybe this year will be different…..but I’m not counting on it.

  19. DDrye 12/04/2005 at 12:32 PM #

    No I don’t get it. They fired Doherty but it wasn’t because he lost to NC State. Don’t you get that one of those years Roy was coaching at UNC?

    “Please pardon my confusion HOW you have found a way to PRAISE a LOSS to a lower seeded team in what was called one of the Top 10 biggest collapses in NCAA Tournament history, coming on the heels of the worst collapse in the entire history of the Atlantic Coast Conference”

    What are you talking about? In Hodge’s freshman year NC State barely lost to UCONN with five freshmen and two sophs. I have no clue what you’re referring to here, but I’m sure that season NC State lost to a higher-seeded UCONN.

    Where are you getting six years from? I thought in Hodge’s first season NC State finished ahead of UNC. And in his sophomore year. And in his junior year (with Roy Williams on the bench, not Doherty).

    So do you really think in the past four years NC State hasn’t been competitve with UNC DESPITE having a better overall and ACC record in three out of the four seasons?

  20. Jeff 12/04/2005 at 12:52 PM #

    ^You are correct, I was wrong about the collapse. I thought that you were refering to the season a couple of years ago.

    Regardless, everywhere I turn you are highlighting the differences in the way that they run their program from the we way we do.

    They fired Doherty but it wasn’t because he lost to NC State. Don’t you get that one of those years Roy was coaching at UNC?

    Let me guess…we haven’t been able to make such a move for a better coach NOT because we don’t have the foresight…but because we can’t get anybody better to come coach at little old NC State?

  21. Class of '74 12/04/2005 at 12:53 PM #

    We have not competed with UNC on any level in basketball since James T. Valvano was head coach. Be it wins, progress in the tournament, enthusiasm etc. If Doherty had not alienated everyone in the basketball program and remained we might have had a chance. He would be comparable to Herb in terms of success, but to compare Herb to Roy is just plain dumb! It’s like comparing a Taurus to a Bentley.

  22. DDrye 12/04/2005 at 1:01 PM #

    Again, I don’t see how finishing with a better record (overall AND in the conference) than UNC in 3 out of 4 seasons is not competing with them.

    How is that not competing? What if NC State has a better overall and conference record this season? That would be four out of five years and two out of three with Roy Williams on the bench.

  23. Class of '74 12/04/2005 at 2:01 PM #

    Did you see the UNC- Illonois game? That crowd was alive! I haven’t seen that level of passion in the RBC and you know why? We want Herb to show us something. Something he hasn’t to this point. A reason to believe we will be good, a reason we can believe we will be in the sweet sixteen or elite eight, a reason why it will take another team’s best game to beat us on any night. When we get that feeling again, we’ve acutally got it back again. Until that moment arrives, I’m in my “Missouri mode” – show me.

  24. packbackers 12/04/2005 at 2:06 PM #

    DDrye, do yourself the favor that I am about to do. Leave these people alone to wallow in their own negativity and whining. Passion is good when it’s passion; negativity is negativity is negativity. With friends and supporters like them, who needs enemies?

  25. Class of '74 12/04/2005 at 2:29 PM #

    I hope all of our fanbase shares my passion and not the “lets hold hands and sing kum-bah-ya” all is just peachy with the program view. When the “kum-bah-yaers” take over then it is truly over.

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