Byting Miami Quotes

I didn’t have the opportunity to listen to the commentators during the State-Alabama game last week because I was watching the game at Amedeo’s. But, I did make note of some quotes that the Fox Basketball crew shared during the Miami game that I had not logged yet and thought that I would throw on the site.

Nothing really earth shattering. Just some little nuggets.

====> “This group seems to be coming together faster than Herb’s teams have in the past…I always thought that NC State played their better basketball closer to the end of the season‿ – Mike Gminski

In light of the facts recently brought to light by VaWolf, I thought that that was funny. If only the G-Man would read our blog, he may be able to talk about things from a factual perspective instead of a personal perspective.

====> “I don’t think that there is any doubt that this is a tournament team. There is no doubt that this team should be in the field of 65.‿ – Mike Gminski

I could not agree more. Then again, I could not have agreed more with the exact same feelings in each of the last 5 years – 1 of which we failed to make the tournament and 3 of which we were on the bubble sweating a bid on Selection Sunday. The Wolfpack has done a nice job of getting positioned to avoid the bubble thusfar this season. The overall weakness of the ACC this season should help the Pack navigate an acceptable conference record an have no problems making the tournament field. But…

====> “They are going to need a win against a quality opponent‿ – Tim Brando

Give credit to Brando for politely referencing the consequence of the Pack’s mild early-season schedule. Despite the ACC’s weakness, the conference schedule and this week’s game against George Washington should give State’s overall schedule enough boost not to be embarassing come March. But, from the OOC perspective, State is going to need Notre Dame and Alabama to pick up some steam….SOON.

The lack of wins vs quality opponents continue to be a source of contention for the Wolfpack and the measurement of the program against other Top 20 programs. Last season, State was a piss-poor 3-7 against NCAA Tournament teams in the regular season, which included a home win vs Louisiana-Lafayette. Analyzing the Wolfpack’s regular season record against top quality teams highlights a decade-long trend that is nowhere close to turning around. In the last four regular seasons that many Wolfpackers think is some kind of pinnacle, NC State is 15-29 against the RPI’s Top 50, segmented as follows:
* 1-13 vs #1-10
* 6-8 vs #11-25 (with 5 of those winnings coming in one season)
* 8-8 vs #26-50

I use ^these numbers to follow-up on VaWolf’s great entry, “Being Competitive”. The phrase “being competitive” is thrown around by too many people far too often because it is easy to use and hide behind since there is no real defnition or measurement applied to it. Lee Fowler has learned that many Wolfpackers will comply with him when he throws out comments like, “being competitive with the Top 20” and then runs to hide without any clarity.

Here’s my quick thought about the use of the word “competitive” — a program can only be legitimately deemed as “competitive” with another program or set of criteria when the program’s overall record against that standard is approximately .500

For example…over the last four years, NC State is obviously “competitive” against the #26 through #50 teams in the country due to our 8-8 record against that level of competition. Against #11-#25, the Wolfpack is 6-8 over the last four seasons, with five wins coming in a single season. Obviously, we are not really “competitive” against that level of competition yet.

This isn’t an indictment. Just some clarity around an otherwise ambiguous standard that is becoming the newest evolution in the Lee Fowler management playbook.

General Media NCS Basketball Quotes of Note

13 Responses to Byting Miami Quotes

  1. Class of '74 12/28/2005 at 11:51 AM #

    Good points on all accounts. Again we will see over the next two weeks or so as to what kind of team this is going to be. But as of now we seem to be headed in the right direction.

  2. Rick 12/28/2005 at 11:52 AM #

    We have been a good team for 4 years now. The problem is it looks like we will always be mired in the middle of the ACC. Nothing Sendek has done indicates that will change.

  3. Jeff 12/28/2005 at 1:15 PM #

    I’m excited about the next 2 weeks. We will learn if we will be playing for seeding in the NCAAs or if we will be playing to eek into the NCAAs. It’s a key stretch, but we have helped ourselves by beating Notre Dame, Miami, and Alabama. None of those games are big wins…but, none of those games were losses.

  4. PACDADDY 12/28/2005 at 10:29 PM #

    “Against #11-#25, the Wolfpack is 6-8 over the last four seasons, with five wins coming in a single season. Obviously, we are not really “competitiveâ€? against that level of competition yet.”

    Now that is classic. Are we “obviously” not competitive because we won 5 in one season? Is that your point? 6-8 isn’t competitive?…1 game off 50%?

    IS 7-10 competitive(Refering to GW and K)? You confuse me with your selective reasoning. Mind you…I agree that is competitive.

    I contend making final ACC game is finishing strong. Prove me wrong! Show me how easy it is to make final game, by demonstrating “factually” how easy it is for other programs to achieve final game in ACC. How can a team make the final game without finishing strong? Do we simply go back and decide X number of games(without looking at all the intangibles during a few games in each season) and determine something is “factual perspective”?…does “reasoning” ever enter into the equation?

    2002…ACC Final…Beat MSU in NCAA
    2003…ACC Final
    2004…7-3 in last 10 regular season games
    2005…sweet 16

    Enlighten me?

    I did read this entire entry and I do see more of a positive tone to thoughts. I would just like to see consistency in logic. Maybe I’m just off my rocker 😉

  5. Clarksa 12/28/2005 at 11:10 PM #

    Just curious, if 6 ACC teams are in the top 25, and one more is getting votes, how can the ACC be “weak” this year?

  6. VaWolf82 12/29/2005 at 2:50 PM #

    The strength of the ACC will be better judged by how many teams make the NCAA’s this year and by how many qualify for the NIT (>.500 record). I generally can’t get too excited about RPI rankings and polls early in the year. Maybe the voters are right this year, but I think history would show that every year there are “name” schools that start highly ranked and are gone by the end of Jan.

    In 2004 and 2005, the ACC was the top-ranked conference according to the RPI calculation. Currently, the ACC is third. That drop doesn’t necessarily show that the ACC is “weak”, but it is certainly not as strong as the previous two years.

    Whether the ACC is “weak” or not is currently more of a guess than a conclusion. However, when you look at the talent that left the conference after last year, almost everyone (including Lee Fowler) has concluded that the ACC will be weaker than the recent past.

  7. Jeff 12/29/2005 at 4:12 PM #

    Oh brother. It’s just too exhausting.

    “Now that is classic. Are we “obviouslyâ€? not competitive because we won 5 in one season? Is that your point? 6-8 isn’t competitive?…1 game off 50%?”

    I can’t spend time educating you statistical analysis along with common sense AND sports.

    We have won a SINGLE GAME in 3 of the last 4 years against teams ranked between #11-#25.

    I am not taking away from the single season that was nice…but, if the goal is to have a consistent “program” that “competes” at this level…and we have only competed at that level in 25% of the years in the sample…nevermind.

    Just curious, if 6 ACC teams are in the top 25, and one more is getting votes, how can the ACC be “weak� this year?

    Perhaps I should clarify the point that the ACC is down from past year’s as opposed to calling it “weak” overall.

    First, BC wasn’t in the ACC at this time last year…so, only 5 of last year’s ACC teams are currently ranked. (Last year, the ACC peaked with SEVEN teams ranked).

    WE are one of those teams. We don’t play ourselves, so we can’t get credit for playing the “tough ACC” against ourselves.

    Duke – better than last year
    Wake – worse than last year
    Carolina – worse than last year
    Maryland – probably better than last year
    BC – not in the ACC last year
    GT – worse than last year
    Miami – worse than last year
    VPI, FSU, UVa. Clemson — who cares since they all should be the bottom of the conference anyway.

  8. Jeff 12/29/2005 at 4:17 PM #

    I contend making final ACC game is finishing strong. Prove me wrong! Show me how easy it is to make final game, by demonstrating “factually� how easy it is for other programs to achieve final game in ACC. How can a team make the final game without finishing strong? Do we simply go back and decide X number of games(without looking at all the intangibles during a few games in each season) and determine something is “factual perspective�?…does “reasoning� ever enter into the equation?

    Enlighten me?

    CLASSSIC PACDADDY!!!

    Instead of coming up with any work on his/her own…we just demand that someone else enlighten you with tons of work. Then, when the work is done, you still come to conclusions that make no sense.

    How many questions, points, facts, analysis do you want others to do for you? Why not do something on your own.

  9. Jeff 12/29/2005 at 4:20 PM #

    Its funny…I get lambasted for being ‘negative’ all the time….yet, the very people who complain about the negativity are NEVER heard from on ANY entry or topic OTHER than picking and choosing arguments about basketball.

    Yet, I’m obsessed?

  10. Jeff 12/29/2005 at 4:30 PM #

    Since I really can’t follow all of the tangents and the circular thinking and conclusion of some folks…I am going to take a new approach to discussions. It goes something like follows

    Fact: State is 9-20 vs #11-#25 in the last 9 years
    Fact: State is 6-8 vs #11-#25 in the last 4 years
    Fact: State won 5 games vs #11-#25 in ONE SEASON
    Fact: State won 83% of its games vs #11-#25 over the last 4 years in a single season
    Fact: State won 55% of its games vs #11-#25 over the last 9 years in a single season
    Fact: State is 1-4 vs #11-#25 competition in 3 of the last 4 years
    Fact: State has finished in the RPI’s Top 25 once in the last 9 years
    Fact: State has finished in the RPI’s Top 25 once in the last 4 years

    Pacdaddy Conclusion: State is consistently competitive against teams ranked #11-#25 in the country and is therefore a Top 25 program.

  11. PACDADDY 12/29/2005 at 5:38 PM #

    “I can’t spend time educating you statistical analysis along with common sense AND sports.”

    SO because I pointed out how you were wrong, you decide to insult me. Is 6-8 competitive? Many teams have up and down from one year to the next against top 25 teams…I’ve done the research, and posted it here, maybe you should read it. The RPI you use has many flaws and they’re are others that show different results. I use a different RPI…I hope that’s ok.

    I could take each one of your facts and prove them wrong by using a different RPI. How could we have one win against top 10 in your RPI when we swept GT 2 seasons ago? Is it because the RPI you’re looking at doesn’t include all games? Was GT not a real top 10 team?

    FACT>>>we are consistently competitive with top 25 teams(Maybe not top 5 teams)…get a clue Jeff…we’re in the top 20..so…nevermind

    “Its funny…I get lambasted for being ‘negative’ all the time….yet, the very people who complain about the negativity are NEVER heard from on ANY entry or topic OTHER than picking and choosing arguments about basketball.

    Yet, I’m obsessed?”

    Ah…everyone of your entries pertaining to BB has a negative slant(intentional or not). Jeff..I only respond to what I find has no true meaning as to where we currently stand as a BB program.

    The more you continue to put out these misleading facts, the more “obsessed” you look. Your RPI isn’t the “final answer” to whether we’re competitve or or not. How we finished in conference, finish in final polls(percieved by nation), and how we do in the NCAA should have far more weight than the constant RPI rant you’ve been on for 3 years.

    Our rpi is greatly affected by us playing too many 200+ rpi teams. We agree on that.

    “Instead of coming up with any work on his/her own…we just demand that someone else enlighten you with tons of work. Then, when the work is done, you still come to conclusions that make no sense.”

    Jeff…do you read your own blog?…I have done the research and posted it on many of these entries. I showed how rare it is for programs(except for Duke and UNC) to make ACC final…you’re the one that loves these statistical samples over a long period of time. The only thing that makes no sense is your denial or simply ingoring these facts.

    I haven’t asked anyone to do any work I hadn’t already done, or in the process of doing.

  12. packbackers 12/30/2005 at 12:00 AM #

    Pacdaddy, your conclusion’s about Jeff’s negativity are dead on. One must wonder what Herb Sendek needs to do to make him positive. Win the national championship? Yes, that has happened twice in our history. In 1974, we had the greatest player to ever play in the history of college basketball. In 1983, we went on the most miraculous run in college basketball history. Now, since setting the bar at winning the national title seems to me to be a little steep when there are 330 other teams competing for it, I think the real bar should be getting in position to compete for the title (ex. NCAA Tourney four straight years). Granted, an ACC Title would be lovely, but if we win it this year, Jeff, will you become uber-positive about Herb? Jeff, I think we all just wish that you would talk more about our basketball team’s progress, accomplishments and potential, and do so in a positive fashion, at least every once in a while. Being either positive or negative has no correlation to the use of facts, figures, records, etc. unless they are only used to produce one or the other, as they always are when you post them. I’m sure you Jeff, like Pacdaddy, could at least find one statistic that shows NC State is a top 20 team…oh, I have one…we are in the Top 20 in both polls as I type! See, that wasn’t so hard. I know you could even find some more if you tried, and I think we all hope you do.

  13. VaWolf82 12/31/2005 at 3:48 PM #

    The more you continue to put out these misleading facts

    It’s surprising that the same person made this accusation after having the nerve to write this as proof of “finishing strong”:

    2002…ACC Final…Beat MSU in NCAA
    2003…ACC Final
    2004…7-3 in last 10 regular season games
    2005…sweet 16

    Just like some fans attempt to redefine “success” and “competitive” to make Herb look better, now attempts are being made to change the normal meaning of “finishing strong”. Note how the criteria changes to match just what little Herb has led State to accomplish. Two years the ACCT defines “finishing strong”, once the regular season stats are misrepresented, and once (and only once) it is the NCAA tourney.

    How many people really think that 2004 represented a strong finish for State? In the ACCT semis, State had the biggest choke in ACCT history. In the second round of the NCAAT, State blew a 10 pt lead in what, 3 minutes? How could any rational person claim that these poor performances constituted a strong finish?

    How can a team make the final [ACCT] game without finishing strong?

    Well since Herb has led State to the middle of the ACC, making the final game in 2002 and 2003 consisted of beating one team that they should have beaten and upsetting one team. While upsetting the #1 seed is a good win, that win in and of itself does not constitute “finishing strong”…especially since a grand total of one NCAAT game was won in both years combined.

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